Nation's first transgender homecoming queen

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EL PRESIDENTE said:
Him. Its a guy. Just because you say you're a girl doesn't mean you are. Born a guy, has a penis, adams apple. There's nothing that makes this guy a female other than what he thinks. Its a guy in drag.

This guy is living a lie and is probably fucked up in the head mentally.
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Thanks Grandpa.

Seriously, I love how you just exude reactionary dickishness. The grownups are trying to have a conversation.
 
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PtldPlatypus said:
Back on topic, the notion of "gender as a social construct" is the part of this that puzzles me. What exactly do we mean by that? Are we saying that the perceived social differences between the genders are created by society? Girls have a higher tendency to liking dolls and boys have a higher tendency toward athletic competition because society tells them to?

Then I wonder, when transgender people say they were born the wrong gender, how is that determined? How does this teenager determine early in life that he is actually a she? Is it because of a subconscious tendency toward those characteristics that society has identified as conforming to one particular gender's identity? Doesn't this suggest that being transgender shows that gender isn't actually a social construct, but that the sociologically identified differences between the genders are in fact legitimate?
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I really don't know. It's confusing to me because I have never thought that way. But, the way I see it, regardless of how or why, transgendered folk go through a big pile of crap trying to live a life that pleases them and doesn't negatively impact anyone else. So reasons be damned, I'll just be nice to them, refer to them as they wish, and not add to the pile of crap they go through.
 
Further said:
I really don't know. It's confusing to me because I have never thought that way. But, the way I see it, regardless of how or why, transgendered folk go through a big pile of crap trying to live a life that pleases them and doesn't negatively impact anyone else. So reasons be damned, I'll just be nice to them, refer to them as they wish, and not add to the pile of crap they go through.
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I think we've reached the point that nobody can speak definitively on the subject. There are plenty of resources to check out in order to understand what is happening.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
Back on topic, the notion of "gender as a social construct" is the part of this that puzzles me. What exactly do we mean by that? Are we saying that the perceived social differences between the genders are created by society? Girls have a higher tendency to liking dolls and boys have a higher tendency toward athletic competition because society tells them to?

Then I wonder, when transgender people say they were born the wrong gender, how is that determined? How does this teenager determine early in life that he is actually a she? Is it because of a subconscious tendency toward those characteristics that society has identified as conforming to one particular gender's identity? Doesn't this suggest that being transgender shows that gender isn't actually a social construct, but that the sociologically identified differences between the genders are in fact legitimate?
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here is a good read on the subject http://www.du.ac.in/fileadmin/DU/Academics/course_material/hrge_04.pdf

several schools of thought but the seperation of sex from gender is a first for me
 
hoojacks said:
I think we've reached the point that nobody can speak definitively on the subject. There are plenty of resources to check out in order to understand what is happening.
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What we really need is for a guy who dresses like a chick in HS, and who is popular enough to win homecoming queen, to chime in on the matter.
 
hoojacks said:
Thanks Grandpa.

Seriously, I love how you just exude reactionary dickishness. The grownups are trying to have a conversation.
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I'm reality. Go on with your faux intellectual circle jerk.

hoop fam
 
Further said:
I do not believe that answered my question. I looked it up, as I don't have a working knowledge of the bible specifics, and I don't feel that answered my question. "Do YOU think CHRIST would show compassion?"
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Actually that scripture 100% answers your question.
 
hoojacks said:
I have to say that I'm impressed that you did some research on a subject you didn't understand. Seriously, people on this forum are just SO entrenched sometimes. It's refreshing.
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thank you. believe it or not, a lot has changed from when I was in school. I have to read a lot to try and stay somewhat up to date, and a subject like this, well I have never felt the need to find out what the latest thoughts were until you challanged me. Thank you.
 
crandc said:
Let me ask you a question, Platypus. At what point in your life did you realize you were a boy? I'd guess you can't remember. You'll say something like you always knew. Oh, maybe not at birth, but from the time you had awareness you knew you were a boy.

Transpeople are just the same. The only difference is that the gender they know themselves to be does not match their physical genitalia.

Transgender is not the same as gender nonconforming. Brittney Griner, for example, is gender nonconforming but not transgender, she has made it clear she always thought of herself as a girl/woman but did not fit the norm of conduct - she prefers male clothing on many occasions, for example. Chelsea Manning is transgender. And due to social prejudice transfolks often go to extremes - transwomen frequently join military and other hyper-male environments trying to "cure" themselves.

Gender nonconformance is a continuum. I have been called unfeminine, often, due to being too outspoken, too good at math, too knowledgeable about sports, and neither knowing nor caring about fashion. And yet I clearly present as a woman. I just don't fit the straitjacket. And this is why gender is indeed a social construct. Because there are shades of gray; transgender, gender nonconforming to greater or less degree, gender conforming, cis gender. And then throw in that definitions of what is proper for male and female has changed over the years, and also varies with race/class (while white women were seen as helpless, fragile, in need of male "protection", and asexual, black women were seen as Amazons who could do unlimited labor, hypersexual, minxes who "made" men rape them). Once a female president was a joke, now it's a very high probability. Once girls were told running would make their uterus fall out, now female athletes are common. Once women were told college education makes us infertile, now women are the majority in colleges. So which is true female gender?
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I never really spoke at length about this with my few friends who are transgendered. A couple of them went through all the hoops and expense and (self) mutilation to have gender reassignment surgery. Saved up for years to pay for it.

I figure they really know, they've had counseling along the way that either 1) did not deter them or 2) justified their identity.

Most of us identify with the sex we're born with so it's no big deal to us. Maybe hard to understand that some people simply don't identify the way we do. At ~3 months pregnancy, we're all the same sex. The organs then differentiate, sometimes into male, sometimes into female, sometimes into both (or neither?). It's not hard to figure out that all things about a person might be female except the organs differentiated in the opposite way.

Anyhow, I've not met a one who's in it for the drama or attention or whatever. It's way easier and less of a pain in the ass and physically to just go on American Idol or something.

And yeah, I've danced with my friends both before and after the surgery. Why not? I'm comfortable in my own skin to not be threatened in some way by these people who are my friends.
 
magnifier661 said:
Denny what would you do if they asked you to fuck them?
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I'm not going to answer for Denny, but for my own part, if I were single and were asked that very specific thing by my friend, I'd probably be down. Then again, I haven't been unspoken for in 11 years so it's hard to get into that frame of mind again! And also, she's fully transitioned, so it's a different story there.
 
PapaG said:
What we really need is for a guy who dresses like a chick in HS, and who is popular enough to win homecoming queen, to chime in on the matter.
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Yeah, why would you want to hear the point of view of the people we're talking about? What do they know?
 
hoojacks said:
Reality? You're the personification of youtube comments.
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Yes. Because saying that a guy is a guy because...they have all the biological constructs of one is really really "out there". And saying that someone who is a guy and thinks he's a girl also has something wrong going on upstairs is also "way out there". We need to be grounded in reality, a reality in which what someone claims and feels defines their biological sex. Instead you live a magical fantasy land in which people can just say whatever they are."Gender is a social construct". What a crock of shit.

El Presidente,

Black Jew
 
Denny, your comments were 100% spot on with one exception: they do not see this as "mutilating" their genitals (or other body parts; for example, transgender men having breasts removed). They see it as getting their physical body to match their reality. Improving their bodies, although that's too weak (as it makes gender affirmation sound like getting a nose job).

Why is dancing such a big deal, I've been to plenty of parties were (straight) women danced with women, (straight) men danced with men, women danced with men, people danced in groups, by themselves, with their children, any variation. Why must dancing be a Noah's ark of male/female animals marching in two by two?
 
Honest question

You mention getting their physical body to match their reality, but why not get their mentality to match reality? At what point is it simply I think I'm a girl so cut my penis off, rather than I have a penis, so I should get help to think differently?

I am not saying it's the same because I really don't know, but people who believe they are something they aren't is a mental disorder and they are counselled to help them. Why is this different?
 
crandc said:
Denny, your comments were 100% spot on with one exception: they do not see this as "mutilating" their genitals (or other body parts; for example, transgender men having breasts removed). They see it as getting their physical body to match their reality. Improving their bodies, although that's too weak (as it makes gender affirmation sound like getting a nose job).

Why is dancing such a big deal, I've been to plenty of parties were (straight) women danced with women, (straight) men danced with men, women danced with men, people danced in groups, by themselves, with their children, any variation. Why must dancing be a Noah's ark of male/female animals marching in two by two?
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Ha! Why? Every wonder why you need ask why so often?
 
Lol it's almost like some people in thread feel threatened by this tranny. Roflmao
 
Mediocre Man said:
Honest question

You mention getting their physical body to match their reality, but why not get their mentality to match reality? At what point is it simply I think I'm a girl so cut my penis off, rather than I have a penis, so I should get help to think differently?

I am not saying it's the same because I really don't know, but people who believe they are something they aren't is a mental disorder and they are counselled to help them. Why is this different?
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This seems no different than praying the gay away... which also doesn't work. If your brain is wired differently than your junk, you have to decide which organ is more important to align with.
 
ok so everything is a social construct...crandc equates us all to animals..and I have a cat that believes he is a dog...damn I am confused,do I have one dog now or two? Can I dance with them? Is it legal to "date" ?
 
DaLincolnJones said:
ok so evrything is a social construct...crandc equates us all to animals..and I have a cat that believes he is a dog...damn I am confused,do I have one dog now or two? Can I dance with them? Is it legal to "date" ?
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Imaginary dogs are real, if you believe they are.
 
EL PRESIDENTE said:
Yes. Because saying that a guy is a guy because...they have all the biological constructs of one is really really "out there".
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You're saying it to be spiteful.

And saying that someone who is a guy and thinks he's a girl also has something wrong going on upstairs is also "way out there".
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It is. Did you know that reality doesn't reflect your personal gut feelings? I mean maybe you didn't know that other people aren't subject to your knee jerk reactions. Just wanted to be clear.

We need to be grounded in reality,
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No, see, your prescriptivist bullshit doesn't apply to anyone else. These people can do what they feel is right, as is their right to do. You don't even understand the issue, how are you qualified to say what "we" "need" to do?

a reality in which what someone claims and feels defines their biological sex.
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Read what you wrote. Did you miss a "doesn't" in there somewhere?

Instead you live a magical fantasy land in which people can just say whatever they are.
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How dare they take control of their own reality? Don't they realize they are bound by the same social mores that you are?

"Gender is a social construct". What a crock of shit.
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I'd like to hear an alternative theory.

El Presidente,

Black Jew
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And your joke doesn't even apply because you don't understand the issue. Womp womp.
 
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