NBA Dress Code - 3 Years Later (ESPN Bucher)

[JE]

Anyone who's turned on/off from a league based on the players' wardrobe is a dipshit.

 

[noknobs]

The workplace is the court. Whether its 'too much' for one of these guys to wear a suit while at a press conference is completely irrelevant. Using the 'but they make so much money!' argument is ridiculous.

Think of the arena as the office building and the court as their office. I don't wear a jumpsuit into work and then change once I get into the office. And no, their paychecks are completely relevent. Nobody's forcing them to buy thousand dollar suits, just to look nice. Most of the young guys want to now anyways. It's called looking professional.

 

[JE]

Personally I disagree JE, though if that's your take I understand your opinion better.

Their "Paycheck" is earned from their contract, which is with a team and under the provisions of the CBA. Stern has purview over arena operations (playing music during game play, court decals, ticket levies, etc.). He also has purview over media relations (fining people for talking about refereeing, etc.). He also has purview over abilities of referees to do as they wish off the court (no gambling, etc.). Having purview of the players' actions during the time they're at the arena is neither unamerican or racist, and IMO is in keeping with many corporate environments.

Why are we comparing NBA basketball to corporate environments?

 

[BrianFromWA]

comparing your job to that of an NBA players.

You're right, it's crazy. At my job I didn't sign a contract stating I would be under the collectively-bargained rules of another entity during the time my guaranteed contract ran for.

My last job, though, I did. It was the military.

 

[noknobs]

Anyone who's turned on/off from a league based on the players' wardrobe is a dipshit.

Then what's your problem with their current wardrobe? Are you calling yourself a dipshit?

 

[Further]

The workplace is the court. Whether its 'too much' for one of these guys to wear a suit while at a press conference is completely irrelevant. Using the 'but they make so much money!' argument is ridiculous.

The "make so much money" argument is not ridiculous. Jobs can ask many things of an employee, and if the employee does not agree, he can leave. But the more the job pays, the less likely the employee will leave.

If I was asked to shovel poop for 8 hours a day for 20K a year, there is no way I would do it. But, if I was offer for 2mil, I would scoop that poop and smile as I did it.

 

[BrianFromWA]

Why are we comparing NBA basketball to corporate environments?

Because Elbows stated that having dress codes in the workplace was unamerican and racist. You then said that, except for the race thing, you agreed. Many of the others seem to disagree, and are posting why.

 

[Tince]

Do players get paid to walk into the arena? No. They get paid to play ball. Unless you are claiming that NBA players are actors and their entry into the arena is some kind of play, then the NBA has no business telling them they have to spend hundreds of thousands of their own money (which they are not reimbursed for) on high end clothing that David Stern likely gets a kick back on.

Do CEO's get paid to dress well? No. They are paid to take care of the company they work for, and dress professionally is one of many additional expectations.

JE, explain to me how press conferences are irrelevant to the NBA's business and their ability to reach out to their fans?

 

[JE]

Think of the arena as the office building and the court as their office. I don't wear a jumpsuit into work and then change once I get into the office.

Why are we comparing the NBA to normal office jobs? THEY ARE NOT THE SAME, THEY ARE NOT EVEN SIMILAR. Using analogies like this to justify a retarded dress code rule is a dumb argument.

And no, their paychecks are completely relevent. Nobody's forcing them to buy thousand dollar suits, just to look nice. Most of the young guys want to now anyways. It's called looking professional.

If they WANT to do it, then good for them. But FORCING them to do it is just a shit move.

 

[RR7]

An NBA players contract dictates that they are not allowed to do certain things like ski, ride motorcycles, skydive, etc. Those things don't happen on the court, but it is part of a contract. To think their contract only covers them when they are on the court is just stupid. Are they paid to play basketball? Yes. But, they are also paid as representatives of their basketball team. Why the requirement to make public appearances each year?

 

[JE]

Because Elbows stated that having dress codes in the workplace was unamerican and racist. You then said that, except for the race thing, you agreed. Many of the others seem to disagree, and are posting why.

I agree with KME on the premise that the dress code is wrong. Let's leave it at that.

 

[andalusian]

The workplace is the court, that's where they earn their paycheck.

Let's hear it to NBA players playing the game in business suits!

Enough with that uniform none-sense. It also makes a good business decision on the part of the NBA - instead of selling you $40 shirts they would be able to sell you $500 suits.

 

[Tince]

The "make so much money" argument is not ridiculous. Jobs can ask many things of an employee, and if the employee does not agree, he can leave. But the more the job pays, the less likely the employee will leave.

If I was asked to shovel poop for 8 hours a day for 20K a year, there is no way I would do it. But, if I was offer for 2mil, I would scoop that poop and smile as I did it.

I agree how much money they make shouldn't factor into what they are asked to do.

However, if I were offered $5 and hour to shovel poop I wouldn't do it. If I were offered $1 million dollars a year to shovel poop, but the person running my company demanded that I wear a suit and tie, you better believe I'd be heading over to the Men's Warehouse. I would be a fool to say, "That's racist and un-American, you take your million dollars are give it to someone else."

 

[BrianFromWA]

Why are we comparing the NBA to normal office jobs? THEY ARE NOT THE SAME, THEY ARE NOT EVEN SIMILAR. Using analogies like this to justify a retarded dress code rule is a dumb argument.



If they WANT to do it, then good for them. But FORCING them to do it is just a shit move.

Not normal office jobs. Comparing them to other employees of varied jobs.

Military.
Service industry (Restaurants, theater and arena ushers)
Academia.
Construction.
Manufacturing/Fabrication.
Office Environs.

I could go on, but I'll see what others are posting.

 

[Tince]

An NBA players contract dictates that they are not allowed to do certain things like ski, ride motorcycles, skydive, etc. Those things don't happen on the court, but it is part of a contract. To think their contract only covers them when they are on the court is just stupid. Are they paid to play basketball? Yes. But, they are also paid as representatives of their basketball team. Why the requirement to make public appearances each year?

Fantastic point! Not being able to ride motorcycles is racist and unamerican!

Repped

 

[JE]

An NBA players contract dictates that they are not allowed to do certain things like ski, ride motorcycles, skydive, etc.

Because it could hurt or possibly kill them. They're dangerous activities, and if the worst case scenario happens, then it hurts the team that employs them. Teams don't dish out clauses like that to better their image or torment the players, the teams are protecting themselves. If people don't walk into a workplace with business outfits on, who gets hurt by that??

Those things don't happen on the court, but it is part of a contract. To think their contract only covers them when they are on the court is just stupid. Are they paid to play basketball? Yes. But, they are also paid as representatives of their basketball team. Why the requirement to make public appearances each year?

They are paid as basketball players. I don't agree with the public appearances thing either.

 

[Further]

I agree how much money they make shouldn't factor into what they are asked to do.

However, if I were offered $5 and hour to shovel poop I wouldn't do it. If I were offered $1 million dollars a year to shovel poop, but the person running my company demanded that I wear a suit and tie, you better believe I'd be heading over to the Men's Warehouse. I would be a fool to say, "That's racist and un-American, you take your million dollars are give it to someone else."

Who am I kidding. I shovel poop on the weekends for fun.

 

[Minstrel]

I think that there probably is a racial/cultural component to it. Stern is well within his rights to make this rule (as all the examples from other walks of life illustrate), but one can certainly question the motivation. Would it really be inappropriate or strange for athletes to be in casual clothes on the bench, or to do interviews in casual clothes? There's no objective reason why that's stranger than wearing suits on the bench or musicians doing interviews in casual clothes. I think Stern believes (rightly or wrongly) that a great deal of mainstream viewers will be turned off or threatened by players "looking too black." So, he's made a business decision (which has clear racial and cultural considerations) to make his product more palatable to those people.

If there wasn't a perception of "black" "thug" wardrobe, if all players considered casual clothing to be khakis and t-shirts or sweats, I doubt the rule would ever have happened. I obviously can't prove this, so I don't claim it's Truth...it's just my view of how Stern does things.

 

[Tince]

They are paid as basketball players. I don't agree with the public appearances thing either.

Do you think the NBA is a game or a business? If it were a game, anything outside of the court shouldn't matter. If it is a business, then public relations certainly matter.

 

[LOTBfan]

They earn a salary, and are not hourly, therefore you lose the ability to say that they are only paid for 48 minutes. Find a new argument.

People who play the racist card for attention are racist. Yeah, I am talking to you.

 

[JE]

Let's hear it to NBA players playing the game in business suits!

Enough with that uniform none-sense. It also makes a good business decision on the part of the NBA - instead of selling you $40 shirts they would be able to sell you $500 suits.

What a joke of a post.

I agree how much money they make shouldn't factor into what they are asked to do.

However, if I were offered $5 and hour to shovel poop I wouldn't do it. If I were offered $1 million dollars a year to shovel poop, but the person running my company demanded that I wear a suit and tie, you better believe I'd be heading over to the Men's Warehouse. I would be a fool to say, "That's racist and un-American, you take your million dollars are give it to someone else."

Okay, that's you. Not sure about that analogy, considering shoveling poop completely contradicts the positive image supposedly cast by your attire.

Not normal office jobs. Comparing them to other employees of varied jobs.

Military.
Service industry (Restaurants, theater and arena ushers)
Academia.
Construction.
Manufacturing/Fabrication.
Office Environs.

OK, how is the NBA similar to any of those? Let's look at each case seperately please.[/quote]

 

[Karl Malone's Elbows]

Do CEO's get paid to dress well?

No. How is this relevant to the NBA anyway? David Geffen wears jeans everyday. Steve Jobs worse shirts and no shoes. Does the CEO of Def Jam records wear a gold chain?

JE, explain to me how press conferences are irrelevant to the NBA's business and their ability to reach out to their fans?

If the NBA is going to require uniforms they should be required to pay for those uniforms. Telling someone they can't wear a $100 hoodie anymore and have to wear a $5,000 suit without paying them more is as un-american as it gets.

 

[Tince]

I think that there probably is a racial/cultural component to it. Stern is well within his rights to make this rule (as all the examples from other walks of life illustrate), but one can certainly question the motivation. Would it really be inappropriate or strange for athletes to be in casual clothes on the bench, or to do interviews in casual clothes? There's no objective reason why that's stranger than wearing suits on the bench or musicians doing interviews in casual clothes. I think Stern believes (rightly or wrongly) that a great deal of mainstream viewers will be turned off or threatened by players "looking too black." So, he's made a business decision (which has clear racial and cultural considerations) to make his product more palatable to those people.

If there wasn't a perception of "black" "thug" wardrobe, if all players considered casual clothing to be khakis and t-shirts or sweats, I doubt the rule would ever have happened. I obviously can't prove this, so I don't claim it's Truth...it's just my view of how Stern does things.

I bet you Chris Anderson is much more upset than Ray Allen about the dress code...

 

[JE]

Do you think the NBA is a game or a business? If it were a game, anything outside of the court shouldn't matter. If it is a business, then public relations certainly matter.

And anyone who is turned on/off from a sports league depending on the players' wardrobe is a dipshit.

 

[JE]

I think Stern believes (rightly or wrongly) that a great deal of mainstream viewers will be turned off or threatened by players "looking too black." So, he's made a business decision (which has clear racial and cultural considerations) to make his product more palatable to those people.

Its a sad world we live in when middle-aged, racist, judgemental pieces of shit can influence the decisions of the NBA commissioner.

 

[Tince]

If the NBA is going to require uniforms they should be required to pay for those uniforms. Telling someone they can't wear a $100 hoodie anymore and have to wear a $5,000 suit without paying them more is as un-american as it gets.

Wrong. The NBA doesn't require uniforms, they require a level of dress. Check any tax code and they distinguish between the two. I have to wear a collard shirt to work, and my work doesn't pay for my clothing bill.

There is nothing in the dress code that says a player needs to spend $5000 on a suit. You can find full suits for $300 at Macy's. I'm sure that is less expensive than some of the "casual" outfits that were being sported before.

 

[Karl Malone's Elbows]

Because Elbows stated that having dress codes in the workplace was unamerican and racist.

I absolutely did not say that. I did not say anything like that. Please do not lie about what I say ever again. Christians aren't supposed to lie.

 

[BrianFromWA]

Perhaps they are. And Stern, in courting those dipshit's money, has enacted a rule that will increase basketball-related income (in his mind), which pays players a higher amount. Amazingly enough, I can't think of a player in the last few years (white or otherwise) who's said anything about the dress code. Maybe I have my head in the sand about this.

How is the NBA a specialized industry that should be exempt from its leadership being able to enact a dress code?

 

[BrianFromWA]

Wrong. The NBA doesn't require uniforms, they require a level of dress. Check any tax code and they distinguish between the two. I have to wear a collard shirt to work, and my work doesn't pay for my clothing bill.

There is nothing in the dress code that says a player needs to spend $5000 on a suit. You can find full suits for $300 at Macy's. I'm sure that is less expensive than some of the "casual" outfits that were being sported before.

As stated yesterday, you can find Brooks Brothers suits for $10 at Goodwill!

 

[Tince]

As stated yesterday, you can find Brooks Brothers suits for $10 at Goodwill!

What?? I missed that! Great deal!