NBA Dress Code - 3 Years Later (ESPN Bucher)

[BrianFromWA]

Originally Posted by Karl Malone's Elbows The dress code is racist and anti-American. I consider it the most disgusting of Stern's slimey dealings. The players union got bent over when they allowed this.

Originally Posted by BrianFromWA View Post
Because Elbows stated that having dress codes in the workplace was unamerican and racist.

I absolutely did not say that. I did not say anything like that. Please do not lie about what I say ever again. Christians aren't supposed to lie.

I apologize. It was not my intention to lie. Show me what I missed? Only in the NBA is it racist and unamerican, but in other american places of work it's ok?

 

[Further]

I bet you Chris Anderson is much more upset than Ray Allen about the dress code...

Good point. Stern does not want players to tarnish the NBA image, it has nothing to do with "looking black"

vs

 

[JE]

Perhaps they are. And Stern, in courting those dipshit's money, has enacted a rule that will increase basketball-related income (in his mind), which pays players a higher amount. Amazingly enough, I can't think of a player in the last few years (white or otherwise) who's said anything about the dress code. Maybe I have my head in the sand about this.

FINEZ???

How is the NBA a specialized industry that should be exempt from its leadership being able to enact a dress code?

Because they're not sitting in cubicles, and during their actual 'work' they are wearing basketball uniforms.

 

[Minstrel]

Its a sad world we live in when middle-aged, racist, judgemental pieces of shit can influence the decisions of the NBA commissioner.

If my belief is correct, I agree with you. My post shouldn't be viewed as an endorsement of Stern's decision. Quite the opposite.

 

[JE]

If my belief is correct, I agree with you. My post shouldn't be viewed as an endorsement of Stern's decision. Quite the opposite.

Wasn't taken as agreement with Stern.

 

[PapaG]

I love how an 18 year-old with (likely) literally zero experience in the world of business has everybody so fired up. When I was 18, I would have probably been against this dress-code as well. At almost twice that age, I now understand why it was done. Not worth getting upset about IMO, and Stern and the owners own the teams, so they set the rules. If the players don't like it, they don't have to play in the NBA.

 

[Minstrel]

I bet you Chris Anderson is much more upset than Ray Allen about the dress code...

Quite possibly. This is why I put "looking black" and similar terms in quotation marks. It's a style that has become associated with inner city black youth, but is far from being constrained just to them or being the style of all blacks in the inner city.

 

[BrianFromWA]

FINEZ???



Because they're not sitting in cubicles, and during their actual 'work' they are wearing basketball uniforms.

That's what I'm saying. NBA players also aren't flipping burgers, or shooting guns, or making cars, or playing with test tubes, or performing surgery. Comparing them to that is not what I was doing. What I WAS doing was asking what makes the NBA different from any other organization that pays employees? Employers have the ability to set dress codes. What makes the NBA different?

During their "work" they are in the "workplace", which Stern has defined as the arena. Webster, as a team member under contract and on the Inactive List, must abide by the dress code. He is physically unallowed from going onto the "court" as a "place of work", but still must follow the dress code.

Coaches, also, must abide the dress code.

 

[JE]

I love how an 18 year-old with (likely) literally zero experience in the world of business has everybody so fired up. When I was 18, I would have probably been against this dress-code as well. At almost twice that age, I know understand why it was done.

Oh... thems fightin' words. Put 'em up.

 

[THE HCP]

Our guys are all pretty presentable. BRoy and Trav are probably the most casual. It's funny cause Rudy and Serg dress like some Euro Trash rock group.

 

[Karl Malone's Elbows]

Check any tax code and they distinguish between the two.

I've done taxes professionally and what you just posted doesn't make any sense nor is it relevant to this discussion. NBA players cannot claim the clothes they wear on their taxes. Sorry.

I have to wear a collard shirt to work, and my work doesn't pay for my clothing bill.

you comparing your job to that of an NBA players.

There is nothing in the dress code that says a player needs to spend $5000 on a suit. You can find full suits for $300 at Macy's.

Give me a break. This claim is beyond ridiculous. You do realize that NBA players don't wear the same size clothes as you right? Try finding a suit at Macy's for $300 that fits Oden, Pryz or LMA. You do realize that clothes for tall people costs significantly more don't you? And even more amusing is you think an NBA player could get away with wearing a cheap suit to begin with.

 

[BrianFromWA]

"I'll be hanging out here with the Techno Twins, Slazz and Veeder!"

 

[BrianFromWA]

http://www.nba.com/news/player_dress_code_051017.html

1. General Policy: Business Casual

Players are required to wear Business Casual attire whenever they are engaged in team or league business.

"Business Casual" attire means

# A long or short-sleeved dress shirt (collared or turtleneck), and/or a sweater.
# Dress slacks, khaki pants, or dress jeans.
# Appropriate shoes and socks, including dress shoes, dress boots, or other presentable shoes, but not including sneakers, sandals, flip-flops, or work boots.

2. Exceptions to Business Casual

There are the following exceptions to the general policy of Business Casual attire:

a. Players In Attendance At Games But Not In Uniform


Players who are in attendance at games but not in uniform are required to wear the following additional items when seated on the bench or in the stands during the game:

# Sport Coat
# Dress shoes or boots, and socks

b. Players Leaving the Arena

Players leaving the arena may wear either Business Casual attire or neat warm-up suits issued by their teams.
c. Special Events or Appearances

Teams can make exceptions to the Business Casual policy for special events or player appearances where other attire is appropriate -- e.g., participation in a basketball clinic.

3. Excluded Items

The following is a list of items that players are not allowed to wear at any time while on team or league business:

# Sleeveless shirts
# Shorts
# T-shirts, jerseys, or sports apparel (unless appropriate for the event (e.g., a basketball clinic), team-identified, and approved by the team)
# Headgear of any kind while a player is sitting on the bench or in the stands at a game, during media interviews, or during a team or league event or appearance (unless appropriate for the event or appearance, team-identified, and approved by the team)
# Chains, pendants, or medallions worn over the player's clothes
# Sunglasses while indoors
# Headphones (other than on the team bus or plane, or in the team locker room)

I'm still trying to figure out what is racist and unamerican about this.

 

[Tince]

I've done taxes professionally and what you just posted doesn't make any sense nor is it relevant to this discussion. NBA players cannot claim the clothes they wear on their taxes. Sorry.



you comparing your job to that of an NBA players.



Give me a break. This claim is beyond ridiculous. You do realize that NBA players don't wear the same size clothes as you right? Try finding a suit at Macy's for $300 that fits Oden, Pryz or LMA. You do realize that clothes for tall people costs significantly more don't you? And even more amusing is you think an NBA player could get away with wearing a cheap suit to begin with.

I know they can't claim their clothes, because they are not uniforms. You were claiming they were being forced to wear a uniform, which is not true.

Let me ask you this, do you think the owner of my company is equally as wrong as stern to require that I dress well at my job even though it doesn't give me any more knowledge or skills to do the job better?

 

[Tince]

http://www.execstyle.com/refineSuits.asp?viewall=TRUE

There are some extra tall clothing options for well under $1000, let alone $5000.

 

[Karl Malone's Elbows]

http://www.nba.com/news/player_dress_code_051017.html



I'm still trying to figure out what is racist and unamerican about this.

They are being forced to wear white people clothes. You don't understand that because you're white and live in a state with a tiny percentage of other races. You don't understand that there is nothing better or more presentable about the NBA approved clothes, other then the racist stigma. The NBA changed the rules costing workers more and did not reimburse the workers for their costs.

This rule is nothing more than white people telling black people that the way they dress doesn't look good and they need to dress like successful white people.

 

[blue32]

http://www.nba.com/news/player_dress_code_051017.html



I'm still trying to figure out what is racist and unamerican about this.

There isn't. It's just strong buzzwords to try to support an opinion. The funny thing is, it's all so hypocritical.

 

[Minstrel]

I'm still trying to figure out what is racist and unamerican about this.

I don't think anyone is saying the dress code is literally racist (after all, there's a dress code on the court...playing uniforms). The question is whether the motivation for making the rule had racial considerations. My own belief is that it did; an attempt to quash what is seen as ghetto black style which is perceived to be very popular in the game of basketball and is perceived to be threatening to a large segment of white, mainstream viewers.

If that is true, the motivation for instituting the rule could fairly be characterized as racist, in my opinion. Obviously, none of us can prove what is in Stern's head, so it remains the subject of speculation.

 

[blue32]

I don't think anyone is saying the dress code is literally racist (after all, there's a dress code on the court...playing uniforms). The question is whether the motivation for making the rule had racial considerations. My own belief is that it did; an attempt to quash what is seen as ghetto black style which is perceived to be very popular in the game of basketball and is perceived to be threatening to a large segment of white, mainstream viewers.

If that is true, the motivation for instituting the rule could fairly be characterized as racist, in my opinion. Obviously, none of us can prove what is in Stern's head, so it remains the subject of speculation.

The player's are making millions upon millions of dollars and need to act and dress accordingly. Specially when they are out in the community assisting the lives of people.

I would hate to see one of our guys get shot because poor ol' grandma thought T-Law was a gang-banger.

It's sad to say that, but the image of some criminals directly mirror what some of the NBA players were wearing before the dress-code, and still do of course in their free time.

 

[Tince]

I don't think anyone is saying the dress code is literally racist (after all, there's a dress code on the court...playing uniforms). The question is whether the motivation for making the rule had racial considerations. My own belief is that it did; an attempt to quash what is seen as ghetto black style which is perceived to be very popular in the game of basketball and is perceived to be threatening to a large segment of white, mainstream viewers.

If that is true, the motivation for instituting the rule could fairly be characterized as racist, in my opinion. Obviously, none of us can prove what is in Stern's head, so it remains the subject of speculation.

Of the 3 people against the rule that are posting on here, you seem to understand the big picture of things the best.

However, to assume someone is making a decision based on racial motivations is a strong accusation to make without little to know proof. Obviously this is a message board and you can do that sort of thing, but it's dicey.

 

[JE]

The player's are making millions upon millions of dollars and need to act and dress accordingly.

What does this even mean? That people who make money have to dress in a specific way?

It's sad to say that, but the image of some criminals directly mirror what some of the NBA players were wearing before the dress-code, and still do of course in their free time.

A kid at my school was recently busted for having child porn. He wore mostly t-shirts. I wear mostly t-shirts. Should I stop wearing t-shirts, lest I look like a pedophile?

 

[andalusian]

What a joke of a post.

Hey - you got one right! Celebrate!

 

[Karl Malone's Elbows]

There isn't. It's just strong buzzwords to try to support an opinion. The funny thing is, it's all so hypocritical.

Were you trying to be ironic, because this post is pretty funny.

 

[Minstrel]

]However, to assume someone is making a decision based on racial motivations is a strong accusation to make without little to know proof. Obviously this is a message board and you can do that sort of thing, but it's dicey.

I agree, but it's consistent with what I've read from Stern over all the years. He strikes me as determined to make the NBA more marketable and profitable at any costs. I wouldn't say he, himself, is a racist. I have no knowledge of him on that level. I think he's simply 100% calculating and willing to make concessions to a racist segment of society if he felt it would help the league. That may be strong, but I think Stern is about nothing but the bottom line.

To me, it's similar to Google making concessions to the Chinese government about allowing them to have access to certain data to monitor: ultimately, they made a bottom line financial decision and weren't concerned with other principles, like about privacy and censorship.

 

[JE]

Hey - you got one right! Celebrate!

Terrific.

 

[Karl Malone's Elbows]

The player's are making millions upon millions of dollars and need to act and dress accordingly. Specially when they are out in the community assisting the lives of people.

I would hate to see one of our guys get shot because poor ol' grandma thought T-Law was a gang-banger.

It's sad to say that, but the image of some criminals directly mirror what some of the NBA players were wearing before the dress-code, and still do of course in their free time.

And there we have it. Racism in it's most typical form.

 

[BrianFromWA]

They are being forced to wear white people clothes. You don't understand that because you're white and live in a state with a tiny percentage of other races. You don't understand that there is nothing better or more presentable about the NBA approved clothes, other then the racist stigma. The NBA changed the rules costing workers more and did not reimburse the workers for their costs.

This rule is nothing more than white people telling black people that the way they dress doesn't look good and they need to dress like successful white people.

Perhaps I don't understand b/c I'm white, but I've lived and worked in the deep South, the Mid-Atlantic, the Northeast, the Southwest, Northern and Southern California, Africa, Europe, Central America and Japan. Basically everywhere except the midwest and Australia. In Africa, businessmen wear shirts and ties, if not coats. In social situations along the Gulf of Guinea it is unacceptable to wear less than "business formal" or a uniform when having a meeting or gathering. In literally no place in the world that I've lived or worked is "business casual" considered "too dressy" or an inconvenience for work.

Another aside: The Navy just changed its rules for physical fitness attire. The new "uniform" was given for free to the enlisted. As an officer, I am required to purchase it for myself. I was not reimbursed for it. Is that unamerican as well?

The rule is nothing more than an employer (who happens to be represented by a white commissioner) developing a dress code (honored by the Players' Union, who happens to be represented by a black Executive Director) that is not only an american cultural standard, but a worldwide one for professional dress at a workplace.

Are all dress codes racist? I see just about every black man wearing what the white men wear to the Oscars. If the way black people dress is neither better nor worse than the way white people dress, why aren't Fubu parkas and large chains present at those places? Could it be that the dress code for those events dictated what was to be worn?

 

[LOTBfan]

They are being forced to wear white people clothes. You don't understand that because you're white and live in a state with a tiny percentage of other races. You don't understand that there is nothing better or more presentable about the NBA approved clothes, other then the racist stigma.

This rule is nothing more than white people telling black people that the way they dress doesn't look good and they need to dress like successful white people.

You are right, there is a long history of attire oppression, men who were forced into wearing "white clothes" by racist employers... it has absolutely nothing to do with pride, self respect, or the knowledge that taking an interest in your appearance may effect the level of respect you garner from the rest of society.

 

[Boob-No-More]

The workplace is the court.

No, it's not. Whenever they are representing the team or the league, they are at work. That includes pre and post game interviews, press conferences, practice, team functions, etc.

Frankly, I don't think it's racist at all (but I may be wrong). I think it's just good business - for BOTH the league and the players. The better, more professional the players look, the more likely they are to get endorsement deals. Think about it. If potential sponsors see a well-groomed, well-dressed articulate young man speaking during a post game interview they are much more likely to consider offereing him a lucrative endorsement deal than some guy dressed like a thug or a freak. And, again you may claim that racist, but I don't think it is. Would you offer Robert Swift or Chris Anderson millions of dollars to be your corportate spokesperson? Not unless you own a head shop or tatoo parlor.

BNM

 

[blue32]

Ahhh you youngin's make me laugh.....fight the evil powa!

Look I agree with you guys on one important subject, the freedom for the players to wear whatever they want.

BUT the point is, they're under contract and get paid a salary wage, and have stipulations that go along with the contract.
Dress code is one of them, and for good reason to as they are representing the company that is paying them.

If they want to dress in baggy jeans and Double XL hoodies on their own time, more power too them.