NBA GM Draft Discussion (1 Viewer)

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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Aug 11 2008, 12:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Maybe Phoenix' upscale offense leads to opponents doing better than you'd expect, too.

Amare's DIFFERENCE in PER (his offense vs. opponent's offense) is spectacular.

Nice to see KC using stats to defend his arguments!

</div>


whoa whoa whoa. i DID NOT use stats to defend anything. (at least i don't think i did in this one?)
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GMJigga @ Aug 11 2008, 12:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>ok so average post defender, great shotblocker, and that's why I wouldn't say he's half the player KG is, nor speak on any defensive deficiencies.</div>

i never said anything about him being half the player kg is.

we haven't talked about team defense, positioning, or defensive rotations which amare is deficient in, which makes his defense sub par. part of this can be measured by personal fouls. notice that amare fouls at a pretty significantly higher rate than say...KG?
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kid Chocolate @ Aug 11 2008, 12:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GMJigga @ Aug 11 2008, 12:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>ok so average post defender, great shotblocker, and that's why I wouldn't say he's half the player KG is, nor speak on any defensive deficiencies.</div>

i never said anything about him being half the player kg is.

we haven't talked about team defense, positioning, or defensive rotations which amare is deficient in, which makes his defense sub par. part of this can be measured by personal fouls. notice that amare fouls at a pretty significantly higher rate than say...KG?
</div>

Oh nah, I was only bringing this full circle, and explaining how my thoughts were justified, and why I got into this discussion in the first place (I believe it was lukewarm who mentioned that KG comment).
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Aug 11 2008, 12:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Maybe Phoenix' upscale offense leads to opponents doing better than you'd expect, too.

Amare's DIFFERENCE in PER (his offense vs. opponent's offense) is spectacular.

Nice to see KC using stats to defend his arguments!

</div>

Yep, and I'm not arguing that he's not a big positive for his team. But one way to check your first point would be to see how he compares to others on his team- last year, players averaged 18.4 "points" against Shaq (it was 26.1 and 23.9 for Amare). When Amare didn't play in 2005 - and you can claim Phoenix had a similarly high-powered offense - players averaged 17.5 and 15.7 against Kurt Thomas, who is a good defender.
 
i think amare's a fantastic player, athletic freak, awesome on offense. but his defense leaves a lot to be desired.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GMJigga @ Aug 11 2008, 12:59 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kid Chocolate @ Aug 11 2008, 12:55 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GMJigga @ Aug 11 2008, 12:43 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>ok so average post defender, great shotblocker, and that's why I wouldn't say he's half the player KG is, nor speak on any defensive deficiencies.</div>

i never said anything about him being half the player kg is.

we haven't talked about team defense, positioning, or defensive rotations which amare is deficient in, which makes his defense sub par. part of this can be measured by personal fouls. notice that amare fouls at a pretty significantly higher rate than say...KG?
</div>

Oh nah, I was only bringing this full circle, and explaining how my thoughts were justified, and why I got into this discussion in the first place (I believe it was lukewarm who mentioned that KG comment).
</div>

If you're nitpicking with half, fine, that was hyperbole- but Amare is slightly superior offensively to KG (and is better in the clutch), so how much better does KG have to be defensively
to be universally considered a better player (at least for now)?
 
KG is twice the defensive player that Amare is, that alone makes him the better player.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CelticKing @ Aug 11 2008, 01:04 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>KG is twice the defensive player that Amare is, that alone makes him the better player.</div>

winner winner chicken dinner.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (kk30 @ Aug 11 2008, 12:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>my bad I was looking at PER... but than it makes Amare's plus minus per 48 more than plus 10.

Ok I admit now he does play poor defense but that doesn't effect his value to the team</div>

Well, it does in the sense that he could be that much better- but what I was saying is he might be better suited to play with Wallace - and therefore in some ways better for your team - than KG would be. Using the big 3 comparison, from long, long ago.
 
With much road weariness, I took the man that defines averaging more turnovers per game than assists, steals and blocks combined.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan @ Aug 11 2008, 02:23 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>With much road weariness, I took the man that defines averaging more turnovers per game than assists, steals and blocks combined.</div>

good man
 
Went with Duhon because I thought most of the leftover PG's were crap after him. He's an above average defender and can play enough minutes to make Ford's job easier.

Also is a decent insurance policy if Ford gets hurt.

Considering last year he was picked 40 spots earlier by Pegs, and this year he should be a starting PG for the Knicks, I think it's a good pick
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Real @ Aug 10 2008, 11:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GMJigga @ Aug 10 2008, 09:21 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>I don't like Josh Howard at SG. You and Pegs should trade him for Joe Johnson straight up.</div>

I would but Pegs wouldn't do it.

Unless pegs would in that case pegs get at me.

I think Howard fits better alongside Pierce. I also got Kevin Love out of it too.
</div>

Maybe if you offered me somethin better than joe and 12th for josh and 10th.

I don't even see the point in that.
 
I like your frontcourt, but your primary ballhandlers being Wade, Fisher, and House makes me nervous.
 
That was a good pick in Louis Williams. I was strongly considering taking him with one of my two picks.
 
whoever is editing the selection thread, REALLY needs to learn to tell time (looks at Zae THRICE).

If last pick was at 1:03 est, then 6 hours from then is 7:03 est, not 7:23 est.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kid Chocolate @ Aug 11 2008, 01:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>whoever is editing the selection thread, REALLY needs to learn to tell time (looks at Zae THRICE).

If last pick was at 1:03 est, then 6 hours from then is 7:03 est, not 7:23 est.</div>

That was me who did it. I just keep refreshing the page and the time that I noticed when the selections thread was updated was at the :23 mark so my bad...
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (jtballa2o1 @ Aug 11 2008, 12:46 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>anyone have any interest in Mcdyess??</div>
anyone??? i need a defensive big man or guard
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kid Chocolate @ Aug 10 2008, 09:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Aug 11 2008, 12:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Maybe Phoenix' upscale offense leads to opponents doing better than you'd expect, too.

Amare's DIFFERENCE in PER (his offense vs. opponent's offense) is spectacular.

Nice to see KC using stats to defend his arguments!

</div>


whoa whoa whoa. i DID NOT use stats to defend anything. (at least i don't think i did in this one?)
</div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kid Chocolate)</div><div class='quotemain'>LWP is correct.
http://www.82games.com/0708/07PHO15C.HTM</div>

Your favorite stats site?

You have a number of posts with stats in them, about 1.5 blocks/game and so on, as well.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Aug 11 2008, 05:06 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kid Chocolate @ Aug 10 2008, 09:52 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Aug 11 2008, 12:45 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Maybe Phoenix' upscale offense leads to opponents doing better than you'd expect, too.

Amare's DIFFERENCE in PER (his offense vs. opponent's offense) is spectacular.

Nice to see KC using stats to defend his arguments!

</div>


whoa whoa whoa. i DID NOT use stats to defend anything. (at least i don't think i did in this one?)
</div>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Kid Chocolate)</div><div class='quotemain'>LWP is correct.
http://www.82games.com/0708/07PHO15C.HTM</div>

Your favorite stats site?

You have a number of posts with stats in them, about 1.5 blocks/game and so on, as well.
</div>

I was just confirming something LWP said. That was just showing where LWP got his numbers!

Stats are ok and all, but I just take them with a grain of salt. Basic stats are just that: basic stats.
 
Regardless of your view of stats, do tell me what you think would happen if you fielded a team who's offensive PER (for each player in the lineup) is less than the PER of the player he guarded.
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Denny Crane @ Aug 11 2008, 05:17 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}></div><div class='quotemain'>Regardless of your view of stats, do tell me what you think would happen if you fielded a team who's offensive PER (for each player in the lineup) is less than the PER of the player he guarded.</div>

what's the PER formula?
does PER include defense?

i'd doubt it's able to. it would depend on the defense of those players. i mean if a player averages 30/10/5 and sucks at defense, but a player averages 20/4/4 but is great at defense, who would have the higher PER?
 
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