Nelson Mandela Dead at 95

[Denny Crane]

I guess it's breaking news right now.

 

[speeds]

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

I can't stop thinking of this:

[video=youtube;xWI_kHUbeW0]

 

[jlprk]

He denounced Bush as a warmonger and the U.S. as having "committed unspeakable atrocities in the world." He was close to anti-apartheid supporters like Fidel Castro and Moammar Gadhafi. His visit to Miami sparked a 3-year verbal war between Cubans on the right and blacks on the left.

http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/12/05/3799987/mandelas-controversial-visit-to.html

 

[TradeNurkicNow]

A long time enemy of the neo-conservatives is gone. Reagan parties in hell tonight!

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

A long time enemy of the neo-conservatives is gone. Reagan parties in hell tonight!

Sorry. Not liberal. We don't celebrate the deaths of our political opponents like you would.

hoop fam

 

[Mediocre Man]

Mandela, good or bad? I simply can't decide

 

[VanillaGorilla]

Crazy that the Mandela movie starring Idris Elba just came out. Conspiracy!

 

[ehizzy3]

his death got less attention than paul walkers, smh

 

[VanillaGorilla]

his death got less attention than paul walkers, smh

Really? Less attention from who?

No Blazers posted instagram pictures of Walker, several did of Mandela.

Every site I visit has had more about Mandela.

 

[ehizzy3]

this forum had more discussion about it, and my facebook.

 

[VanillaGorilla]

this forum had more discussion about it, and my facebook.

Ah I always forget about facebook. I have it but I have it set up so I don't see anybody's statuses..

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Nelson's was sort of expected. He had been near death about 6 months ago.

 

[ehizzy3]

Nelson's was sort of expected. He had been near death about 6 months ago.

thats true

 

[Denny Crane]

A long time enemy of the neo-conservatives is gone. Reagan parties in hell tonight!

 

[TradeNurkicNow]

and this demonstrates what?

 

[Denny Crane]

and this demonstrates what?

He had his own ideas about ending Apartheid.

You'd think that deliberately choosing a black man to send as our ambassador would be a huge slap in the face to their government.

 

[TradeNurkicNow]

He had his own ideas about ending Apartheid.

You'd think that deliberately choosing a black man to send as our ambassador would be a huge slap in the face to their government.

I wouldn't think that. I would think it was a political concession made by the advice of some PR adviser.

 

[Denny Crane]

I wouldn't think that. I would think it was a political concession made by the advice of some PR adviser.

It's not how he tells it. Edwards Perkins.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6369450

 

[Denny Crane]

Interestingly, the article talks about what Reagan proposed in place of the sanctions that he vetoed:

The significant difference being Reagan did not want to put sanctions on black businesses, but congress did. Congress' sanctions included a few more natural resources. Is it a good thing to hurt yourself in the process of putting sanctions on some other country?

 

[TradeNurkicNow]

It's not how he tells it. Edwards Perkins.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6369450

Yeah, it kind of is how he tells it. Did you read the link you posted?

In 1986, the Reagan administration made a surprising move. Secretary of State George Schultz called career diplomat Edward Perkins.

"He said, 'There are people around the president who believe that it is time to send a black ambassador,'" recalls Perkins. "He said, 'But not necessarily for the right reasons.'"

Perkins, who was then almost 60, feared that he was being used as a black face to mask the Reagan administration's refusal to get tough with South Africa.

 

[Denny Crane]

Yeah, it kind of is how he tells it. Did you read the link you posted?

Yes, I did. He met with Reagan who gave him 100% support behind anything he wanted to do. That's what he's been saying in live interviews.

I'm failing to see Reagan made some sort of mistake in sending him, nor in what Perkins did. Perkins also served in the Clinton administration. Also in the newspaper article, or in the NY Times article about it from 1986, he was the 2nd black man the administration nominated. The first had business dealings with companies in S. Africa so the democrats wouldn't confirm him.

 

[Masbee]

Mandela, good or bad? I simply can't decide

Both.


He freed blacks in South Africa.


And then, effectively, delivered them into mass poverty and unemployment by allowing socialism to be the dominant force.


Too bad.

 

[Denny Crane]

Both.


He freed blacks in South Africa.


And then, effectively, delivered them into mass poverty and unemployment by allowing socialism to be the dominant force.


Too bad.

I don't think that's right.

It's more a case of the monied white people fleeing the country with their wealth when apartheid was ended.

And by all accounts I've seen, the economy there was better when he left office than when apartheid was practiced.

He's certainly one of the great leaders in modern history, maybe among the greats of all time.

 

[speeds]

Sad that Mandela is dead. But do you know who was a truly great man? Reagan. Ronald Reagan.

 

[TradeNurkicNow]

Yes, I did. He met with Reagan who gave him 100% support behind anything he wanted to do. That's what he's been saying in live interviews.

That doesn't mean Reagan didn't appoint him for "the wrong reasons."

I'm failing to see Reagan made some sort of mistake in sending him, nor in what Perkins did. Perkins also served in the Clinton administration. Also in the newspaper article, or in the NY Times article about it from 1986, he was the 2nd black man the administration nominated. The first had business dealings with companies in S. Africa so the democrats wouldn't confirm him.

I'm not arguing against any of that. All I said was that Mandela was an enemy of Reagan and the American right wing.

 

[Masbee]

I don't think that's right.

It's more a case of the monied white people fleeing the country with their wealth when apartheid was ended.

And by all accounts I've seen, the economy there was better when he left office than when apartheid was practiced.

He's certainly one of the great leaders in modern history, maybe among the greats of all time.

So are you saying that these "monied white people" took the best gold and diamond mines the world has with them?

If a black run government that guaranteed minority rights, supported property rights and contract law, why in hell would "monied white people " leave?

That the above did not happen is on Mandela.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Denny Crane]

That doesn't mean Reagan didn't appoint him for "the wrong reasons."



I'm not arguing against any of that. All I said was that Mandela was an enemy of Reagan and the American right wing.

Mandela was freed in 1990, a year after Reagan's 2nd term finished and in the 1st year of GHW Bush's term. Whatever they did helped free Mandela.

Regardless if YOU think Perkins was appointed for "the wrong reasons," he was appointed. If Reagan wanted to, he could have appointed a white man. You can't wish away what he did.

 

[Denny Crane]

So are you saying that these "monied white people" took the best gold and diamond mines the world has with them?

If a black run government that guaranteed minority rights, supported property rights and contract law, why in hell would "monied white people " leave?

That the above did not happen is on Mandela.



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

South Africa is 25% of the entire economy of the continent. Arguing that their economy is somehow bad flies in the face of reason.

The whites that fled hated black people because of their skin color. Property rights wouldn't make them want to stay.

http://www.economist.com/node/12295535

The South African Institute of Race Relations, a think-tank, guesses that 800,000 or more whites have emigrated since 1995, out of the 4m-plus who were there when apartheid formally ended the year before. Robert Crawford, a research fellow at King's College in London, reckons that around 550,000 South Africans live in Britain alone.

 

[Masbee]