Game Thread Nevada Caucuses 2020

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Anyone every watch Dexter? All seasons complete? I asked not as out of context as it may seem. The right to life is a battle for all living things, not just unborn fetus, eggs, or spawnings.

If anyone has watched it, love to go deeper into this topic both about abortion and the death penalty, because they are a closer relation than most think about.

So... Any Dexter fans?

https://www.sho.com/dexter
Im not even sure what CC thinks he’s talking about at the moment lol. Ive hardly said a word about abortion. I think he just wants to pick an argument about religion with me. :dunno:
 
There are few things that piss me off more than a bunch of smug self-righteous sanctimonious men sticking their noses in the air and talking about how awesome it is for them to force their will on women's bodies either by physical force
There is a solution, we could confine pregnant women to some sort of pregnancy camp where she would be monitored 24/7 by armed guards who would guarantee that she could not perform some self abortion. You know, sort of like a prison. I vote no.

These over-the-top imaginary scenarios serve no purpose but to further justify you guys’ own militant attitudes. You’ll have more success fighting real life boogeymen than making up fake ones to fight.
 
It is a stance held by many christians including ABM. I know you have stated you don't share that stance. I just wanted your opinion on the matter as a Christian.
So... abortion, laws, and legislating morality, religion are all tough subjects to try to tackle on the internet, and honestly I 'try' to keep my beliefs on things out of the discussion most of the time because usually that just leads to trying to argue about my religion, and (the royal) your beliefs and I tend to think it doesn't get us anywhere. This is going to be a really long post though so I apologize in advance.
When I was an atheist I took that stance that all laws are in one way or another legislating morality, and that morality is really subjective what you consider immoral is different then me and vice versa. In darwinism it’s the weak die the strong survive, friedrich nietzsche struggled with this as well (he was a darwinist theologian) and as an atheist I believed there really should be no laws after all were just carbon we live we die our make up and importance to the universe is essentially nothing so what if Im raped or murdered. Anyways thats kind of a long winded way to say that my thoughts have changed on that, but I still think someone who really, really wants to argue against “legislating morality” as an atheist still has some hills to climb themselves.

As a Christian my stance has kind of changed, there are things we have laws for that while yes are still pushing one word view or another there are laws we need to function as a society. Laws on homocide is the “big” one that comes up frequently. If I were to say that I think in, “Gods” eyes abortion is a sin, I would say probably at least mid-late term ones, but I don't know. However bigger than that to me is that while we can never get around how we vote is our way of pushing our world views on others I dont think its the place of Christians to tell non-christians how they must live by our moral standards. If a woman decides shes going to have an abortion I dont think its our job at least right now to judge them, or to punish them for it. I personally am squeamish about late term abortions but even to some extent it really isnt on me and my “feelings” dont really constitute a good argument for voting against someone else’s feelings.

I think Jesus’ life showed an example of how we should live and really he spoke a lot about religious people using the law to burden down and to gain power over people, and how they were really the evil ones, and I still feel like thats the case, religious people running around saying, “burn the gays, or abortion doctors or ladies getting abortions should rot in Hell”, are really the evil ones, because they’re trying to use their laws to trample others. I believe I guess to wrap this up that Christians have basically two “jobs”, First love people regardless of life styles, and secondly to worry about your own sins and let God worry about others. If there is a God he’s got greater answers to all these questions then I do, so to me a Christian who’s wrapped up running the life of someone else (ESPECIALLY if they dont believe in what we/I do to begin with) is failing to understand their responsibility is to love people not to tell them how terrible they are.
 
These over-the-top imaginary scenarios serve no purpose but to further justify you guys’ own militant attitudes. You’ll have more success fighting real life boogeymen than making up fake ones to fight.

The first one is not an imaginary scenario but the current situation in our country today. Men thinking they have any right over a woman's body.

The 2nd is imaginary for now, but could someday be reality. As a real Vonnegut feel to it.
 
Sanders is unlikely to tap Warren as running mate, not out of disrespect, but because both are over 70 white liberal New England senators. I can't see Democrats running an all white ticket and if 78 year old Sanders is the nominee he'll want a younger Veep. I still think Stacy Abrams is a leading choice, although if Sanders had trouble in California he could pick Kamala Harris.

Feeding the hungry will be a growth industry if you get your way, @ABM. Do they ever talk about how Trump's cuts to the SNAP program and the Women Infants Children food aid has made them hungrier? Or how making it harder to get disability will cause some to lose their only income? Or the impact of his proposed trillion dollar cut to Social Security and Medicare on hunger in America? Or of family separation? Forced pregnancy? Are any formerly incarcerated? Do they wonder why they paid for their misdeeds but Trump says he is above the law? Do they wonder why the rich need another trillion dollar tax cut while they lose their tiny services? Or do you just hand out bibles and MAGA hats with a bowl of soup?

A woman wrote an op-ed recently in the New York Times after Trump, who tried unsuccessfully to force his second wife to have an abortion, asked what kind of monster would have a third trimester abortion. She said she had done so when tests late in pregnancy showed the fetus had no neurological connections. The parts of the brain were there but there was no function. As in zero. Unable to function on the most basic animal level, let alone human. The article resulted in a lot of letters. Most were sympathetic; a few called her baby killer and said their god wanted her to carry to term. (So easy to say your god wants someone else to suffer!) Some of the opposed letters deliberately misconstrued as simply a handicapped child. The heartbreaker was from a woman who said that test was not available when she was pregnant and her son was born with that condition. He can't see, hear, speak, is incapable of purposeful movement. Some profoundly intellectually disabled people still have enough awareness to have an emotional tie with their care givers; he has none. Her marriage broke up under pressure of caring for him although she and her ex still share responsibility. Neither remarried or had other children. Because of the demands of his care, neither has ever taken a vacation and they have no social life. They put him in a wheel chair in the morning. He is fed through a tube since he can't chew and swallow. He sits all day drooling as he has no muscle control. They put him to bed at night. The real gut punch: he is 47 years old. Assuming the parents were at least 20 when he was born, they are now pushing 70 or older. Their whole adult lives have been in a prison of full time caring for someone less responsive than a potted plant. The kind of person Trump thinks it's funny to publicly mock and ridicule. Presumably ABM thinks that's just dandy. Hey, if they worship the same way he does maybe they will go to heaven. (Although if they aren't his religion they just face even more hell, correct?)

ABM references himself as happily married. Got any daughters? If, heaven forbid, your 11 year old daughter was raped and pregnant, could you be hateful enough to tell this actually born suffering child while she sobbed and pleaded and begged you not to force her to carry the pregnancy that she is just an incubator for a rapist's sperm? Or that if she wasn't such a slut she wouldn't have gotten raped? Trump clearly loves cruelty, he's a schoolyard bully who gets off on other people's suffering. And having been a clinic escort it seems that is a trait shared by most of the anti-choice activists.

There are few things that piss me off more than a bunch of smug self-righteous sanctimonious men sticking their noses in the air and talking about how awesome it is for them to force their will on women's bodies either by physical force or by passing law after law. I swear I sometimes just want to slice off their .... noses....


Thankfully, in America, we're all certainly entitled to our respective opinions. You have yours, I have mine. I really don't think we'll be changing each others' here. Again, though, I had shared a number of other issues I support Trump on as apart from the right-to-life one. I respect your opinions. I hope you'll accept that I have mine, too. Thanks.
 
I can't respect an opinion that involves someone wanting right to live, who then doesn't care about making sure a permanently disabled human being has their needs taken care of after being born. Sorry, not sorry.
 
So if we can freeze sperm and freeze eggs for later use, if we could come up with a way to remove a fetus and freeze it for later implantation that would satisfy all sides in this debate right?
 
So... abortion, laws, and legislating morality, religion are all tough subjects to try to tackle on the internet, and honestly I 'try' to keep my beliefs on things out of the discussion most of the time because usually that just leads to trying to argue about my religion, and (the royal) your beliefs and I tend to think it doesn't get us anywhere. This is going to be a really long post though so I apologize in advance.
When I was an atheist I took that stance that all laws are in one way or another legislating morality, and that morality is really subjective what you consider immoral is different then me and vice versa. In darwinism it’s the weak die the strong survive, friedrich nietzsche struggled with this as well (he was a darwinist theologian) and as an atheist I believed there really should be no laws after all were just carbon we live we die our make up and importance to the universe is essentially nothing so what if Im raped or murdered. Anyways thats kind of a long winded way to say that my thoughts have changed on that, but I still think someone who really, really wants to argue against “legislating morality” as an atheist still has some hills to climb themselves.

As a Christian my stance has kind of changed, there are things we have laws for that while yes are still pushing one word view or another there are laws we need to function as a society. Laws on homocide is the “big” one that comes up frequently. If I were to say that I think in, “Gods” eyes abortion is a sin, I would say probably at least mid-late term ones, but I don't know. However bigger than that to me is that while we can never get around how we vote is our way of pushing our world views on others I dont think its the place of Christians to tell non-christians how they must live by our moral standards. If a woman decides shes going to have an abortion I dont think its our job at least right now to judge them, or to punish them for it. I personally am squeamish about late term abortions but even to some extent it really isnt on me and my “feelings” dont really constitute a good argument for voting against someone else’s feelings.

I think Jesus’ life showed an example of how we should live and really he spoke a lot about religious people using the law to burden down and to gain power over people, and how they were really the evil ones, and I still feel like thats the case, religious people running around saying, “burn the gays, or abortion doctors or ladies getting abortions should rot in Hell”, are really the evil ones, because they’re trying to use their laws to trample others. I believe I guess to wrap this up that Christians have basically two “jobs”, First love people regardless of life styles, and secondly to worry about your own sins and let God worry about others. If there is a God he’s got greater answers to all these questions then I do, so to me a Christian who’s wrapped up running the life of someone else (ESPECIALLY if they dont believe in what we/I do to begin with) is failing to understand their responsibility is to love people not to tell them how terrible they are.

Thank you for your insightful answer. I agree these topics are tough to discuss online. I don't wish to argue about it. I want to discuss. To understand where that stance is coming from.
 
Thank you for your insightful answer. I agree these topics are tough to discuss online. I don't wish to argue about it. I want to discuss. To understand where that stance is coming from.
It is really, really hard to speak for someone else with confidence even if you’re similar in beliefs. There is a lot of variables throughout our lives that go into making us what we are today, and I dont at all pretend to speak for all Christians or really anyone.

I “think” some people think like this though, “well whats a good moral society in my eyes” - Now Im going to vote for or against certain things because in my opinion its creating the framework for a good society. Which when you step back from this particular subject we all do that to some extent, but I dont know.
 
The first one is not an imaginary scenario but the current situation in our country today. Men thinking they have any right over a woman's body.

The 2nd is imaginary for now, but could someday be reality. As a real Vonnegut feel to it.
It’s not simply the men vs. women scenario it’s being made out to be. That is just over simplified and ignorant. There are men AND women on both sides of the issue. It’s not just some group of some old white men somewhere sipping scotch and smoking cigars and having a good laugh about “let’s force our will on some women’s bodies through force, boys, it’s gonna be awesome!” The fact is men and women both vote on these legislatures, whether they’re agreeable or not.

Life isn’t a comic book, no matter how hard you try to villainize those you disagree with. It’s better to attack things at face value and be realistic. Going completely over the top just causes the other side to do the same, and the result is ridiculous laws like the one recently passed in Alabama that jails women under any circumstances, or on the flip side, the one in New York that allows extremely late term abortions.
 
So... abortion, laws, and legislating morality, religion are all tough subjects to try to tackle on the internet, and honestly I 'try' to keep my beliefs on things out of the discussion most of the time because usually that just leads to trying to argue about my religion, and (the royal) your beliefs and I tend to think it doesn't get us anywhere.

The challenge I've had in here is that I'm a Trump supporter sitting smack dab in the middle of a pack of liberals - some of them actually hating on me. It's not good enough that I simply say I support my President, and will vote for him again. I'm coaxed, needled, and chided for all the why's of it. Apparently, my right-to-life reason/stance holds zero water. I went on to list the many other reasons I support the man in this thread, but, evidently, those have gone unnoticed - at least, uncommented on. No worries, though.

Thanks for your comments on the matter. You bring a soft and breezy, Snuggie approach to the room. Heh, no vinyl gimp suits allowed, please.
 
It is a stance held by many christians including ABM. I know you have stated you don't share that stance. I just wanted your opinion on the matter as a Christian.

Well, my Bible states that God knew me...and every unborn....at the moment of conception. That tells me they're an actual living human being. If I, or others who share my beliefs, don't stand up for their rights...then who will?

Now, is this issue dealt with by means of laws alone? I would say no. I believe education plays a big part, as well. Truly, there are unintended risks and perils (physical, emotional, social, etc.) that come with abortion. Sometimes these girls - and boys, as well - are unaware of these. On a much different topic, the same goes for drug/opioids use. I think we could do a much better job educating on that front, as well. (BTW, anyone see The Pharmacist on Netflix? My wife and I finished watching that last evening. Fascinating look at one man's personal campaign [and RESULTS!] against Purdue Pharma & Oxycontin.)

This all said, I see the abortion issue more critical involving young girls and boys...who have choices in the matter. In terms of rape, and the like, those are very tough and horrible situations and I can certainly see exceptions made for those cases. (Although, there are numerous and wonderful testimonies out there when the babies' lives were spared in those situations.) But again, a very different and difficult matter.

So, I believe laws mixed with good education strategies can be very helpful. As an aside, there's a story about a teen girl being scoffed at and chided by her girl schoolmates that she was still a virgin. She simply smiled at them and remarked, "Ya know....I could be like all of you anytime I want. But, the fact, is, you can now never be like me." Rhetorically speaking, I wonder if any of those other girls ever went on to face an abortion choice.
 
The challenge I've had in here is that I'm a Trump supporter sitting smack dab in the middle of a pack of liberals - some of them actually hating on me. It's not good enough that I simply say I support my President, and will vote for him again. I'm coaxed, needled, and chided for all the why's of it. Apparently, my right-to-life reason/stance holds zero water. I went on to list the many other reasons I support the man in this thread, but, evidently, those have gone unnoticed - at least, uncommented on. No worries, though.

Thanks for your comments on the matter. You bring a soft and breezy, Snuggie approach to the room. Heh, no vinyl gimp suits allowed, please.
Your right to life belief stems from a morality and I respect that. I disagree with it but I respect it.
My biggest point is that there are all kinds of people doing morally reprehensible stuff but we accept it because it doesn't affect any of us and the 'culprit' is old enough to make they're own mistakes/errors. If you think they're committing a sin then you'd have to condemn Millions of others who make mortal sins daily. How about the Saudis bombing and starving to death100s of thousands in Yemen? How about the Syrians and Russians barrel bombing and gassing thousands and thousands in Syria? How about the administration yanking little children fromt he arms of their family at border crossings? How about sending all those people back to Central America to be murdered by gangs? How about reducing food aid to the desperately poor? How about neglecting all those pregnant women who are forbidden a life changing abortion? There's an awful lot to tackle before getting into an issue with people very emotional about that issue on both sides.
I pray that we can improve all those other issues.

Problem solving 101, tackle the low hanging fruit first.
 
The garden is planted, the bread is baked, the floor is swept and I have no campaign events until tomorrow morning. So...

First as to upper limits on abortion of healthy fetus. Only 2% of abortions are third trimester. The vast majority of those are either medical emergency of the woman or severe fetal defect. Occasionally it is a drastic life emergency (severe sudden financial crisis, abandonment, homelessness, etc.) A few involve a woman who was raped and is in denial - especially very young girls - until she just can no longer deny she really truly is pregnant. Women just don't sit around for 8 1/2 months and then decide to have an abortion because they have a little headache or can't fit into prom dresses - statements made up by anti-abortion fanatics. Women do sometimes postpone the procedure due to all the laws designed to make getting an abortion as difficult, time consuming, and expensive as possible but that is not the woman's choice. So, if you say you want to outlaw late abortion, well, who decides what is and is not an emergency? Only the woman in consultation with her doctor and others she might choose to bring in. Which will never be a state legislator.

For the record, I was raised in an observant Jewish home although I became a conscious atheist at an early age. The Jewish faith does not prohibit abortion and explicitly does not consider abortion murder. Halacha (Jewish law) holds a human life begins when a baby is born and draws breath. And also if there is a conflict between the needs of the pregnant woman and the fetus, the woman takes precedence, and no woman should be compelled to carry a child against her will. So if you religion teaches otherwise and you want to follow that in your own life, fine, but it violates the First Amendment to make your religion secular law that everyone must follow.

As to putting women in prison to stop them from getting abortions - not so far-fetched. During the civil war in Yugoslavia thousands of Croatian and Bosnian women and young girls were held in rape camps which are exactly what they sound like, repeatedly raped by Serbian forces. During the entire time abortion was legal up through the first six months of pregnancy, so women who became pregnant were held prisoner until the seventh month to prevent abortion.

I know of two cases in this country. In one a college student, who like many students was having a hard time financially, got involved in a white collar crime. She was extremely remorseful, very anxious her family not hear since she said she came from a traditional Chinese-American family where the disgrace of one was the disgrace of all, it was a first offense. Her co-defendants all got probation and community service. But the judge learned she was pregnant and had already made an appointment for an abortion, so she was sentenced to prison explicitly to prevent her from getting an abortion. Her lawyer challenged this, successfully, but the judge knew the order wasn't legal. All that was necessary was to hold the woman for a few months until she could no longer get a legal abortion. The woman dropped out of school and is now a struggling single mother who feels she let her family down.

The other case was a teen. She was uncertain what she wanted to do, and she and her parents had scheduled a consultation with a doctor to learn about abortion. She wanted information so she could make the best decision for herself. Her boyfriend and his parents showed up armed at her home and held the family hostage. They called police, but were unaware the boyfriend's parents had made an arrangement with the local police chief, an anti-abortion fanatic. He arrived and arrested the parents for "endangering the welfare of a minor" by taking her to discuss abortion. She was put into foster care. Again, the charges did not have to legally stick and did not, all that was necessary was to keep the young woman in custody of the state until she was too far along to get an abortion.

Yes, we all have our opinions. If you have an opinion that abortion is bad and therefore choose not to have an abortion I respect that even if the circumstances were ones where I myself would never carry a pregnancy. I oppose the one child policy and forced abortions that took place in China. But - when you try to make your opinions into law, so that my body is governed by your opinion, I am going to object to my dying breath and beyond.
 
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Yes, we all have our opinions. If you have an opinion that abortion is bad and therefore choose not to have an abortion I respect that even if the circumstances were ones where I myself would never carry a pregnancy. I oppose the one child policy and forced abortions that took place in China. But - when you try to make your opinions into law, so that my body is governed by your opinion, I am going to object to my dying breath and beyond.

I understand, and thank you for your response. For the record, I've been through three of them. That was many years ago and BC years. I could PM you on that if you were interested.
 
The garden is planted, the bread is baked, the floor is swept and I have no campaign events until tomorrow morning. So...

Yes, we all have our opinions. If you have an opinion that abortion is bad and therefore choose not to have an abortion I respect that even if the circumstances were ones where I myself would never carry a pregnancy. I oppose the one child policy and forced abortions that took place in China. But - when you try to make your opinions into law, so that my body is governed by your opinion, I am going to object to my dying breath and beyond.

BINGO !
 
Cool. You can have all the Oxycontin you'd like.

Good. Can you send me several million dollars worth, then?

barfo
 
What is your #1 low-hanging-fruit problem to be solved?
There are so many that I couldn't list half of them.
1. Increase funding for the CDC rather than decreasing it;
2. DACA path to citizenship;
3. Appointing judges that know what a court room looks like;
4. Releasing the President's tax returns;
5. Rolling back the tax cuts for the wealthy;
6. Better configuring Obama Care such that the rolls are increased;
7. Replacing inexperienced ambassadors with ones who actually know what they're doing;
8. Treating immigrants seeking asylum more humanely;
9. Negotiating trade agreements better and working with our allies on trade agreements;
10. Strengthening NATO rather than weakening it;
11. Rejoining the Paris agreement on climate control;
12. Slowly increasing renewable energy and adding nuclear power to the discussion;
13. Retoring SNAP;
14. Halting the pardoning of serious criminals;
15. Not lying to the public;
16. Quit grabbing women by the pussy;
17. Not calling African countries "shit-hole countries";
18. Better service to Puerto Rico;
19. Getting Saudi Arabia to properly account for the death of Jamal Khashoggi;
20. Stop aiding Saudi Arabia in their brutal war in Yemen and providing food and water for the starving population.

I could go on forever but that would be incredibly boring.
 
Cool. You can have all the Oxycontin you'd like. Far be it from anyone to stop you.


lol...yet another "swing and miss" by you. But again, at least you're consistent.
 
lol...yet another "swing and miss" by you. But again, at least you're consistent.

Apparently, you missed some of the things I already had to say on the subjects...or chose not to comment. Either way, that's OK.
 

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