Newly named- Potential Upside Podcast - Ep 1 is now up- now with less Danforth!

[BBert]

Great podcast...I think your point about blocking shots out of bounds being a dumb move was brilliant. Never heard that discussed before on a basketball forum. Great angle and coaching tip

[Old man voice] I remember back when ABC used to show an NBA game on Saturday afternoons (and back in them days, that was the only nationally televised game there was). They had a feature at half time where a player would give skills tips, like Pete Maravich showing ball handling drills, or a player showing how to get a half step on a defender and drive to the basket, stuff like that. I still remember Bill Walton talking about shot blocking, and him making a big point about it. He said if you block it out of bounds, the other team just gets another shot, but if you block it and keep it in bounds, your team has a pretty good chance of coming up with the ball. He was very good at it, often corralling the blocked shot himself. Of course, he probably learned it from John Wooden.... [/Old man voice]

 

[Blazinaway]

a quick note on Bazemore... I was doing some basic research on Allen Crabbe and this little gem popped up... why go after Bazemore when you've already got one for less $$?

Less $$$$? FYI Crabbe is RFA this summer and someone will offer him some significant money, so it comes down to who you prefer? Bazemore or Crabbe? What do your metrics say about who is a better fit for us between those two - for now assume they get paid close to the same this summer.

 

[Dan Marang]

Less $$$$? FYI Crabbe is RFA this summer and someone will offer him some significant money, so it comes down to who you prefer? Bazemore or Crabbe? What do your metrics say about who is a better fit for us between those two - for now assume they get paid close to the same this summer.

with him being an RFA and Bazemore already out there- plus a couple others who fit that mold- teams will have to overpay for Crabbe. That's almost always the case with RFAs - that's the reason that provision was put in place. I'm doing some research on Crabbe over the weekend and then seeing how it all stacks/adds up. But from a cursory look- Crabbe is the better option for a couple reasons: 1) price 2) he's younger 3) room for growth 4) familiar with the system & culture (reasons in no particular order) I'll know a bit more once I take a look at how he stacks up this year and any comparative growth curves

 

[BlayZa]

maybe just should have called it the <3 Meyers Podcast.

 

[BonesJones]

I actually want CJ for Nerlens Noel, for Meyers (plus more) perhaps look to get an SG replacement - like Fournier from Magic
OR

I sure liked what I saw of Kent Bazemore last night and he is a UFA thus coming summer

EW.

 

[Blazinaway]

with him being an RFA and Bazemore already out there- plus a couple others who fit that mold- teams will have to overpay for Crabbe. That's almost always the case with RFAs - that's the reason that provision was put in place. I'm doing some research on Crabbe over the weekend and then seeing how it all stacks/adds up. But from a cursory look- Crabbe is the better option for a couple reasons: 1) price 2) he's younger 3) room for growth 4) familiar with the system & culture (reasons in no particular order) I'll know a bit more once I take a look at how he stacks up this year and any comparative growth curves

why do you keep saying "price"? a ton of teams will have tons of capspace and someone will offer Crabbe likely a similar amount to Bazemore - so lets get that out of the way, yes the Blazers can match but they would still have to pay him whatever the other team offered. As far as growth look what Bazemore has done the past year year especially, sometimes players are late bloomers and he looks to be one.

 

[Dan Marang]

why do you keep saying "price"? a ton of teams will have tons of capspace and someone will offer Crabbe likely a similar amount to Bazemore - so lets get that out of the way, yes the Blazers can match but they would still have to pay him whatever the other team offered. As far as growth look what Bazemore has done the past year year especially, sometimes players are late bloomers and he looks to be one.

Just because teams have cap space doesn't mean they're going to blow it all this year. Nor does every team need a 3/D SF- and there are other options out there to be had- Batum, Barnes, Parsons, Green, Deng... there's a lot of them out there that have filled that role for a longer period and may be a bit more attractive... so I'm not going to just "get that out of the way..." Yes- I know how RFA works, how often do RFAs change teams? How many RFAs actually sign an offer sheet? It's not all that often. Bazemore has done well, but that's my point- Crabbe is playing well, he's younger and has MORE room for growth potential. Crabbe will get paid, but he won't get paid the same $$$ as the other guys- that's why I said price.

 

[Dan Marang]

maybe just should have called it the <3 Meyers Podcast.

How so? Please, explain.

 

[Orion Bailey]

I would alsao like to add to thsi... though maybe off topic... that players CAN develop after deveral years in the leauge. For those that think some of our players like Meyers have reached thier peack I have one name. Paul Millsap.

Bounced around mediocrity with several teams for seven years.. Then became a two time all star, looking for his third...

It can happen. Vonleh could break out a couple years from now into an all star.
Crabbe too for that matter...

 

[Dan Marang]

I would alsao like to add to thsi... though maybe off topic... that players CAN develop after deveral years in the leauge. For those that think some of our players like Meyers have reached thier peack I have one name. Paul Millsap.

Bounced around mediocrity with several teams for seven years.. Then became a two time all star, looking for his third...

It can happen. Vonleh could break out a couple years from now into an all star.
Crabbe too for that matter...

Absolutely- there have been the occasional player or two that makes a jump a bit later- Jimmy Butler is kind of in that mode, as is Draymond. Although they improved probably a bit quicker than what you're talking about- they just both popped into my head. Millsap is actually one of those players who had a very definable skill set- rebounding (led the nation in college) and that skill almost always translates to the NBA. He took it upon himself to add a little something to his game year after year. Interestingly enough, reminds me of another former Jazz player- Wes Matthews. Wes came in as a defender. No 3 & D there- just defense through and through. He added 3pt range over the course of a year and 1/2. Then he worked on his ball handling, next came the evolution in the post game, and finally an off the dribble move that allowed him to get to the rim. Those guys are rare as could be but they're worth their weight in gold. If Meyers developed that type of mentality it would be amazing- but I'm of the belief that you're either born with that other-worldly drive or you're not.

I think you're onto something with Crabbe though. Vonleh, there's just not enough of him yet that I can pin down a skill that gets him on the court night in and night out beyond this year- I'm hopeful, but nothing really jumps out yet.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

I would alsao like to add to thsi... though maybe off topic... that players CAN develop after deveral years in the leauge. For those that think some of our players like Meyers have reached thier peack I have one name. Paul Millsap.

Bounced around mediocrity with several teams for seven years.. Then became a two time all star, looking for his third...

It can happen. Vonleh could break out a couple years from now into an all star.
Crabbe too for that matter...

I love you man, but what the hell are you talking about? Millsap has only played in one other city--Utah--and has been above average since day 1. His PER has never been below 16, and its increase in recent years corresponds to an increase in usage. The addition of a 3-point shot is the only real improvement he's made. In fact, as his scoring has gone up, his responding percentages have decreased, particularly on the offensive end (likely due to him playing father away from the hoop). He only "became an all star" after he moved out of the loaded western conference; had he been in the east this whole time, he's probably have been an all star 6 times by now. Honestly, Paul Millsap is a terrible example for you to pull out to support a claim that mediocre to bad players can substantially improve after the age of 25.

 

[Orion Bailey]

I love you man, but what the hell are you talking about? Millsap has only played in one other city--Utah--and has been above average since day 1. His PER has never been below 16, and its increase in recent years corresponds to an increase in usage. The addition of a 3-point shot is the only real improvement he's made. In fact, as his scoring has gone up, his responding percentages have decreased, particularly on the offensive end (likely due to him playing father away from the hoop). He only "became an all star" after he moved out of the loaded western conference; had he been in the east this whole time, he's probably have been an all star 6 times by now. Honestly, Paul Millsap is a terrible example for you to pull out to support a claim that mediocre to bad players can substantially improve after the age of 25.

Sorry, one other team, but his first two season played he didn't average more than 9 points a game. I am basing my statement off of what the announcers said and a quick look at his stats...

He averaged 5.5 rebounds and 7.5 points his first two seasons and played all 82 games. combine this with a 67% ft for those two years, how is that above average?

Stats are right here...

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/_/id/3015/paul-millsap

Oh yeah. He also only averaged 1 assist for both those years.

Again, how is this above average or even AVERAGE form day one????

That's what I was talking about.

Pretty obvious to me that he came in the league as a mediocre player (yes he maybe did have a defined skill set of rebounding, but that's about it)
He is twice the player he was when he entered the NBA, and didn't really start that growth until into his third FULL season.

Im just saying that our players, the bulk of them, Vonleh, Meyers, AMinu, Harkless, even Crabbe, Have not had those kind of consisten 20 minutes a game like Millsap did, so these guys are really on thier first real season of consistent minutes. Give them a few years and they could elevate thier game just like Millsap did.

And Millsap stayed in college three years.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Sorry, one other team, but his first two season played he didn't average more than 9 points a game. I am basing my statement off of what the announcers said and a quick look at his stats...

He averaged 5.5 rebounds and 7.5 points his first two seasons and played all 82 games. combine this with a 67% ft for those two years, how is that above average?

Stats are right here...

http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/_/id/3015/paul-millsap

Oh yeah. He also only averaged 1 assist for both those years.

Again, how is this above average or even AVERAGE form day one????

That's what I was talking about.

Pretty obvious to me that he came in the league as a mediocre player (yes he maybe did have a defined skill set of rebounding, but that's about it)
He is twice the player he was when he entered the NBA, and didn't really start that growth until into his third FULL season.

Im just saying that our players, the bulk of them, Vonleh, Meyers, AMinu, Harkless, even Crabbe, Have not had those kind of consisten 20 minutes a game like Millsap did, so these guys are really on thier first real season of consistent minutes. Give them a few years and they could elevate thier game just like Millsap did.

And Millsap stayed in college three years.

Look at his advanced stats on bbref and get back to me. He was above average from the start, and they stayed steady with increased minutes. He was good from the word go.

 

[Orion Bailey]

Look at his advanced stats on bbref and get back to me. He was above average from the start, and they stayed steady with increased minutes. He was good from the word go.

Those stats can be tweaked to fit most agendas. End of story is he played all 82 games his first two seasons, with 20 mpg, 9ppg, 5.5 rpg, 1 apg, on 50% FG and 67% ft.

That is average at best.

In the end I think we are arguing semantics. The point is he improved his game significantly years into his career. It can be done....

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Those stats can be tweaked to fit most agendas. End of story is he played all 82 games his first two seasons, with 20 mpg, 9ppg, 5.5 rpg, 1 apg, on 50% FG and 67% ft.

That is average at best.

In the end I think we are arguing semantics. The point is he improved his game significantly years into his career. It can be done....

I disagree with your point. His game is largely the same now as it was then, excepting the addition of the three point shot. What he got was more minutes and then later when he moved to Atlanta, more shots. If you were paying attention to the Jazz when Millsap was first drafted you should know that he was good from the get go.

 

[Orion Bailey]

We will have to disagree because.....

in his first two seasons he averaged the above...The rest of his career has been an average of 31.8 minutes per game. That's an increase of 11 minutes per game. he averaged 13.7 ppg during this stretch.

I see that as not much of an improvement and this agrees with what you are saying...
But wait. Lets look at just he last two season now....
An average of 33 minutes per game in 73 and 74 games respectively...and he averaged 16.7 and 18.4 ppg.
So in his first two years, he played 10 minutes per game less than the rest of his career on average, but the per 36 was almost the same. But in his last two seasons he took a considerable leap from averaging only 13.7ppg for the stretch of his career to 17ppg in only 2 more minutes per game played.

No matter how you spin it, its pretty obvious he has improved and continues to improve late in his career and again, my whole point, is... so can other players, like some on the Blazers roster....

 

[Orion Bailey]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/awards/mip.html

This is a list of the NBA's most Improved player award since the mid 80's and the age of the recipient. There are 12 players over 25.
It can happen that some of our guys can still take a good leap in the next couple years....Not saying m,ost improved player award leaps, but if they can keep a steady growth with a couple of leap years, yes, guys like Harkless, Vonleh, Plumlee and even Aminu, Leonard ands Crabbe can still become substantially better.

Im not saying they will. im saying its possible. And I'm saying its probable that one or two more do improve. Crabbe is making steady progression. A leap or two and he could be a 6th man of the year candidate, potential All star. My overall point is, I do not think this team has reached its peak individually nor collectively.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

Vonleh has solid defensive instincts, especially in his feet; if they improve with age and training that would keep him on the court night in and night out as a 3 & D guy.

 

[riverman]

Vonleh has a powerful lower body core..he's not easy to move once he gets set. I think the sky is the limit for him but Stotts has him in defensive school before he runs many plays for him. I know he can shoot.

 

[BonesJones]

Vonleh needs to fix the hitch in his shot.