No way we're keeping this pick

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OregonHuskerMan said:
You're assuming we can land a top shelf free agent. BIG assumption.

Especially looking at the market. I really think we are limited to C, and a dynamic SG. I think Olshey prefers the trade route (he has said as much.)
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Good point, I think Olshey will try to get a big name player by free agency or trading. Either one.

That is the idea behind accumulating chips for that big trade. I don't think Blazers should give up two chips in a #10 and Lenard for Gortat if they want to make a bigger trade down the road.

I like the idea of getting a really good free agent and trading a few young players for top shelf player . . . all in one summer. :)
 
KeepOnRollin said:
First, Flip or Lin never did it for a full season. They both exploded for part of a year.

Second, I have no doubt that Leonard should have a good chance to do some of those numbers by his 6th Season. POR doesn't seem willing to wait that long however.

And Gortat was hurt for quite a few games and limited in the games he did play and still did 11/8.5/1.6. Do you know the number of NBA Centers who did that this year? 4 Gortat, Duncan, Howard, and Noah. Hibbert and a few others just missed out.
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I never doubted it. You just posted stats from a career year (that weren't even from this current season), and I was poking fun at you for it. BTW, If I tweak your stat group even slightly, I can add more centers to that mix, and some of them had some other stats that were far more impressive than Gortat's stats. It's easy to use stats to prove a point, and in this case, it's misleading, as if Gortat is one of the top 4 centers in the league. He's not. Don't get me wrong, I like Gortat. I've said so in this thread a few times. At this time, he's better than Leonard. But dumping Leonard and the #10 would be a terrible deal. If Gortat was 24-26 and had more years on his contract, I still wouldn't like that deal, but it's more palatable. But given where this team currently is.......

I think we're on the same page, overall. I just didn't like the way you used your stats in your argument, so I was poking fun at it.
 
BLAZINGGIANTS said:
I never doubted it. You just posted stats from a career year (that weren't even from this current season), and I was poking fun at you for it. BTW, If I tweak your stat group even slightly, I can add more centers to that mix, and some of them had some other stats that were far more impressive than Gortat's stats. It's easy to use stats to prove a point, and in this case, it's misleading, as if Gortat is one of the top 4 centers in the league. He's not. Don't get me wrong, I like Gortat. I've said so in this thread a few times. At this time, he's better than Leonard. But dumping Leonard and the #10 would be a terrible deal. If Gortat was 24-26 and had more years on his contract, I still wouldn't like that deal, but it's more palatable. But given where this team currently is.......

I think we're on the same page, overall. I just didn't like the way you used your stats in your argument, so I was poking fun at it.
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Fair enough on the stats thing...

And I not trying to say Gortat is a top 4 Center in this league. I think he is a top 10 Center though (probably right at #10) and since we would have his Bird Rights I not too worried about him leaving provided we wanted to keep him.

I keep #10 if Shabazz or Oldapilo drop there. Other then that I don't see a compelling reason to keep the pick. We all know this is somewhat of a down draft. To get a legit Center in this league you have to overpay in either money or trade. This isn't overpaying in money (at least not yet) so you have to do the other option.

I just like this option more then blowing our money on a guy who doesn't really produce (looking at you DeAndre and McGee) much.
 
KeepOnRollin said:
In a year or two Leonard is going to put up better stats than 15.4 pts/game, 10.0 rbs/game and 1.5 blks/game?
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I think/hope so, yes. At least if utilized to the same degree. Leonard has a rare combination of size, athleticism, skill, and the attitude and work ethic to put it all together.
 
handiman said:
I think/hope so, yes. At least if utilized to the same degree. Leonard has a rare combination of size, athleticism, skill, and the attitude and work ethic to put it all together.
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And an uncanny ability to fail to learn proper positioning on defense and slightly too passive on offense.

He doesn't have the greatest attitude, FWIW.
 
Fail to learn would make sense if he wasn't a rookie. One season, and he's failed to learn? Also not at all concerned about being passive on offense.
 
How highly touted was Gortat at age 20? Hell, other than Dwight, how many of the top ten centers currently in the league came in as anything more than projects?
 
handiman said:
How highly touted was Gortat at age 20? Hell, other than Dwight, how many of the top ten centers currently in the league came in as anything more than projects?
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The Dude would be interested in knowing what those types of players were known for, or had going for them. Leonard was known for being an athletic big, who could face up and hit a nice jump shot, and that's what he was. Kids got huge offensive potential for sure, and if he could improve his defense a lot, it would make life a lot easier on our front office.

Oden was another player who was known for defense, but had a very raw offensive game, and that's what he was too.

I wonder how many players (especially ones picked in the top half of the first round) that were known for one thing became good at the other?
 
OregonHuskerMan said:
You're assuming we can land a top shelf free agent. BIG assumption.

Especially looking at the market. I really think we are limited to C, and a dynamic SG. I think Olshey prefers the trade route (he has said as much.)
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No he is assuming that one day a superstar will be disgruntled and want to leave. Having talent will allow us to offer talent in return for the superstar.
 
I think if HOU is going to go after Howard, and it sounds as if they will...then POR should try and help them clear space...Asik and a young player or two (Terrence Jones? Thomas Robinson? Motiejunas? White?) for the #10 and maybe rights Papanikalou???? That could give HOU $20-25 mil in cap space if the cap goes up to $60mil as some have projected....and without sacrificing any of thier core players (aside from Asik who would be replaced by Howard)....

I don't think it makes POR anything more than a 1st round and out team most likely but allows them to stockpile more young talent and I like Asik much better than Jordan, Mcgee, Hawes (ugh) or even Gortat...and the other options named (Noah\Sanders) are not realistic IMO....
 
Blaze01 said:
I think if HOU is going to go after Howard, and it sounds as if they will...then POR should try and help them clear space...Asik and a young player or two (Terrence Jones? Thomas Robinson? Motiejunas? White?) for the #10 and maybe rights Papanikalou???? That could give HOU $20-25 mil in cap space if the cap goes up to $60mil as some have projected....and without sacrificing any of thier core players (aside from Asik who would be replaced by Howard)....

I don't think it makes POR anything more than a 1st round and out team most likely but allows them to stockpile more young talent and I like Asik much better than Jordan, Mcgee, Hawes (ugh) or even Gortat...and the other options named (Noah\Sanders) are not realistic IMO....
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Didn't you think Damian Lillard was a worthless pick?

And personally, I wouldn't help facilitate a trade for LAL. That would make Houston the next unstoppable team, IMO. Asik doesn't move the needle enough for us to compete with Harden/Howard
 
Treaty_of_Batum said:
I don't think Gortat is a needle mover. Olshey wants to accumulate chips for the big trade for that superstar. Giving up a couple of chips for Gortat doesn't seem to fit.

Now Gortat in a way could be considered a chip (expiring contract that can help in the playoffs) and trading one chip for another works.

#10 or Lenard works for me. But there goes about 5 million in cap space. That or keep Lenard, the #10 and get a top shelf free agent? Just don't see Gortat raising this team to another level.
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Certainly didn't mention anything about trading for a "top shelf FA"..
 
OregonHuskerMan said:
Certainly didn't mention anything about trading for a "top shelf FA"..
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I assume Olshey won't hesitate to try and bring in a top free agent if he think that is the player the Blazers need. He tried last year by offering Hibbert a max deal . . . Olshey isn't shy about going after a big name free agent.
 
Yay..

More of this Gortat shit.

Definitely not worth a lotto pick, even in this weak draft.
 
Fez Hammersticks said:
Yay..

More of this Gortat shit.

Definitely not worth a lotto pick, even in this weak draft.
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What center would you want to get with the pick or would you rather just keep it? Gortat is the only non nutcase defensive one we have a realistic shot at.
 
Rhal said:
What center would you want to get with the pick or would you rather just keep it? Gortat is the only non nutcase defensive one we have a realistic shot at.
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He doesn't have an answer for this. Or at least he won't answer it yet.
 
Do I really need to? I think it's painfully obvious why you don't give up a lotto pick:

*30 years old
*prior to last year he was, at best, average.

I'm not going to fall for him when you bring up his PER on an AWFUL Suns team.

I know Portland has to overpay for talent but this is ridiculous.
 
We are asking for you to name who we can get that is a needle-mover. Since you don't think Gortat is.
 
Fez Hammersticks said:
Do I really need to? I think it's painfully obvious why you don't give up a lotto pick:

*30 years old
*prior to last year he was, at best, average.

I'm not going to fall for him when you bring up his PER on an AWFUL Suns team.

I know Portland has to overpay for talent but this is ridiculous.
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Gortat has horrible PER. 34th among centers.
 
Right now there probably not many but that doesn't give you the green light to spend a top ten pick on an average 30 year old.

Patience.
 
KeepOnRollin said:
Not sure when and why you got on this PER kick but it doesn't begin to tell a story on a player.

Andre Blatche is a better NBA player then LaMarcus Aldridge? Because that is what PER says. The examples go on and on.
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If that's the case, then let's trade LA for Blatche!
 
KingSpeed said:
We should consider it. Trade Aldridge for Noah and then sign Blatche. He's very efficient.
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We can't trade LMA for Noah because would lose the PER battle.

LMA is 24th overall in PER. Noah is tied for 55th.
 
Fez Hammersticks said:
Do I really need to? I think it's painfully obvious why you don't give up a lotto pick:

*30 years old
*prior to last year he was, at best, average.

I'm not going to fall for him when you bring up his PER on an AWFUL Suns team.

I know Portland has to overpay for talent but this is ridiculous.
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Really? . He was a backup to Dwight that was good enough that Orlando matched a 10m a year contract for him to play 12 minutes a game. You discount the Suns but it was the only time he was a starter and he put up 15/10/1.5 his first year there, his second year with an injury and playing disgruntled he put up 11/8/1.6. He is a good defender and is great at both guarding the PnR and setting it up. He has no upside but he is certainly not "at best average" he was okay last year and great the year before with Nash. He is a top 10 center, he wont' step up and become the best center in the league but he is a guy who can be a solid center for us for a few years until/if Leonard develops if we feel like extending him next year.
The Lotto is a crapshoot especially in a weak draft at the 10th pick when 3 of the top 10 players are injured and wont' do any workouts (Noel/Bennit/Len), I don't know what you expect with the 10th pick but were not getting anyone who will make us better in the next 3 years then Gortat will. Are you just hoping to shoot for the moon and maybe we'll get superstar but in reality we will most likely get a player who won't even be a starter? Its not like we are a lottery team and need to build through the draft, we are a team attempting to make the transition from Lottery to playoff to contender and the first step is getting quality center which Gortat is.
 
KeepOnRollin said:
We are asking for you to name who we can get that is a needle-mover. Since you don't think Gortat is.
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Not to answer for someone else, but my thinking is if Gortat isn't a "needle mover", and there isn't another "needle mover" that we can get, then let's get a cheaper "non-needle mover". I certainly wouldn't want to give up anything outside of Freeland/Williams/Jeffries/Pavlovic in order to get Gortat - he's just not worth it, when you could probably get someone like Pachulia, Dalembert, Kaman, etc for a few million dollars without giving up a lottery pick.
I'd MUCH rather just sign a stop-gap C outright than give up assets for a different stop-gap C.
 
blue9 said:
Not to answer for someone else, but my thinking is if Gortat isn't a "needle mover", and there isn't another "needle mover" that we can get, then let's get a cheaper "non-needle mover". I certainly wouldn't want to give up anything outside of Freeland/Williams/Jeffries/Pavlovic in order to get Gortat - he's just not worth it, when you could probably get someone like Pachulia, Dalembert, Kaman, etc for a few million dollars without giving up a lottery pick.
I'd MUCH rather just sign a stop-gap C outright than give up assets for a different stop-gap C.
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This is a good post. I personally think Gortat is a needle-mover if healthy and putting up close to the 15/10/1.5 line he did two years ago. If you don't think the guy is one though then I agree with going cheap at Center instead.
 
Fez Hammersticks said:
Do I really need to? I think it's painfully obvious why you don't give up a lotto pick:

*30 years old
*prior to last year he was, at best, average.

I'm not going to fall for him when you bring up his PER on an AWFUL Suns team.

I know Portland has to overpay for talent but this is ridiculous.
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For the record, he's on the proper side of 30 (he's only 29 - he turned 29 just over two months ago).
 
KeepOnRollin said:
This is a good post. I personally think Gortat is a needle-mover if healthy and putting up close to the 15/10/1.5 line he did two years ago. If you don't think the guy is one though then I agree with going cheap at Center instead.
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We're so bad at protecting the hoop that he would certainly make us a better team - so in that sense he moves the needle. But I guess I don't see the point in moving the needle from "lottery" to "1-and-done". And I think that any of the Cs I named have just as much potential to lead us to a 1st-round-bounce as Gortat does. If the results are essentially going to be the same, go with the cheaper option.
 
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