Politics Nov. 2022 voting and election news

[Phatguysrule]

Actually John McCain supported campaign finance reform. Remember NcCain Feingold campaign finance act? But supreme court stepped in. Citizens United ruled corporations are people, money is speech.

You can do campaign finance reform around citizens united. But neither party wants to.

 

[barfo]

And what party do those people represent? Republicans are able to get their party to screw us. Dems can't even get us some lube.

Because they don't have enough incentive.

I think your theory that the Democratic Party is some single entity with absolute control over its members is blinding you to what is and isn't possible.
Exactly how do you think Manchin and Sinema could have been forced to vote to end the filibuster?

barfo

 

[Phatguysrule]

I think your theory that the Democratic Party is some single entity with absolute control over its members is blinding you to what is and isn't possible.
Exactly how do you think Manchin and Sinema could have been forced to vote to end the filibuster?

barfo

I'm simply saying the Republicans seem to get it done, so it's not like you have to be the Borg.

At a certain point just whining about republicans isn't enough. You have to actually get something done. And that time was probably about 30 years ago. The next best time is now.

The democrats don't appear to be getting any closer. They are mostly happy with the way things are.

 

[Chris Craig]

I'm simply saying the Republicans seem to get it done, so it's not like you have to be the Borg.

At a certain point just whining about republicans isn't enough. You have to actually get something done. And that time was probably about 30 years ago. The next best time is now.

The democrats don't appear to be getting any closer. They are mostly happy with the way things.

The Dems have gotten things done, they have just always been immediately undone once Republicans gain power again.

I agree the Democrats need to take more initiative. When you are trying to play fair and by the rules against an opposing side that openly throw the rules out and shit fair down the toilet you can't win. The Dems continue to find it more important to look like the good guy, and maintain the ability to point at the Republicans and say look they aren't playing fair or by the rules.

The Dems need to play hardball. If they had more of a majority in the Senate, another seat or two at least they would have likely tried to get more done.

The Dems in the House passed a lot of stuff but, it couldn't get through the Senate. I agree with @barfo that Manchin and Sinema screwed the Dems by holding out their votes. They might as well be Republicans.

Manchin was holding back on a lot of bills because it would affect him personally as he owns a coal business. He also gets most of his campaign contributions from rich Republicans. Campaign refinance would stop much of that.

Also, as for the filibuster, the Dems are afraid to end it because it's the only defense they have to stop a scumbag opponent party from putting through terrible bills.

They couldn't have ended the filibuster even if they wanted because Manchin and Sinema wouldn't vote for it. And if they did, once they lose the majority the Republicans get to do whatever they want.

 

[barfo]

I'm simply saying the Republicans seem to get it done, so it's not like you have to be the Borg.

What is this 'it' that the Republicans get done? Mostly, they obstruct. The system is set up to enable obstruction. It's much easier to not do things than to do things. On the rare occasions when R's try to do things, they run into the same issues (see, for instance, repealing ACA).

At a certain point just whining about republicans isn't enough. You have to actually get something done. And that time was probably about 30 years ago. The next best time is now.

So, again, what's your suggestion for getting Sinema and Manchin to do the right thing? Be specific.

The democrats don't appear to be getting any closer. They are mostly happy with the way things are.

I don't think you have any evidence for that theory.

barfo

 

[Phatguysrule]

What is this 'it' that the Republicans get done? Mostly, they obstruct. The system is set up to enable obstruction. It's much easier to not do things than to do things. On the rare occasions when R's try to do things, they run into the same issues (see, for instance, repealing ACA).
They got the supreme court pretty well locked up. They got that huge tax cut for the rich passed... so that was cool... I guess Dems are just lovers, not fighters?

So, again, what's your suggestion for getting Sinema and Manchin to do the right thing? Be specific.
/QUOTE]
You would first have to get Democrats to support a less republican candidate. But I didn't suggest Sinema or Manchin would do anything. Democrats have to get on the same page.

I don't think you have any evidence for that theory.

barfo

I posted it above. Republicans get more done than Dems. Because that's where the money is for both the Dems and Republicans..

 

[barfo]

You would first have to get Democrats to support a less republican candidate. But I didn't suggest Sinema or Manchin would do anything. Democrats have to get on the same page.

Oh, I see. Well, that's a great plan. Just 'get on the same page'. Why not use a magic wand, wouldn't that be a good alternative?

barfo

 

[Phatguysrule]

Oh, I see. Well, that's a great plan. Just 'get on the same page'. Why not use a magic wand, wouldn't that be a good alternative?

barfo

There are options available, but Democrats aren't interested. We could offer credits to every american to spend on donations. And allow people to give it to any cause on their taxes, or lose it.

$100 per year per person would be a lot of money and would eliminate the need for outside financing.

But nobody is interested in that.

 

[barfo]

There are options available, but Democrats aren't interested. We could offer credits to every american to spend on donations. And allow people to give it to any cause on their taxes, or lose it.

$100 per year per person would be a lot of money and would eliminate the need for outside financing.

But nobody is interested in that.

In the broad sense, you are right. Voters aren't interested in that (at least, not as much we think they should be), and so they don't vote in enough members of the only party that would enact that - (hint: starts with D) - to get it done.

Not having enough votes to enact legislation is not the same thing as not being interested in enacting the legislation.

Republicans don't want to do it. Democrats don't have the votes to do it.

Not both sides.

barfo

 

[crandc]

Republicans are proposing a national don't say gay law. I am sure the Q Club murderer would agree.

 

[julius]

Republicans are proposing a national don't say gay law. I am sure the Q Club murderer would agree.

They sure are good at expanding their base. This time they're including self hating gays.

 

[crandc]

They sure are good at expanding their base. This time they're including self hating gays.

No information the murderer is gay. But they have Peter Thiel and Christian Walker

 

[Phatguysrule]

In the broad sense, you are right. Voters aren't interested in that (at least, not as much we think they should be), and so they don't vote in enough members of the only party that would enact that - (hint: starts with D) - to get it done.

Not having enough votes to enact legislation is not the same thing as not being interested in enacting the legislation.

Republicans don't want to do it. Democrats don't have the votes to do it.

Not both sides.

barfo

None of that conflicts with anything I've said. Democrats like it this way so they don't change it even when they have the votes to do so. There were enough Democratic votes to get it done, but Democrats didn't want that enough to vote that way.

Because they like it the way it is better than the prospect of changing it.

 

[theprunetang]

No information the murderer is gay. But they have Peter Thiel and Christian Walker

Don't forget Lindsey Graham.

 

[barfo]

None of that conflicts with anything I've said. Democrats like it this way so they don't change it even when they have the votes to do so. There were enough Democratic votes to get it done, but Democrats didn't want that enough to vote that way.

Because they like it the way it is better than the prospect of changing it.

If you mean Sinema and Manchin specifically, those two people, then yes, we agree, they like it better the way it is.
If you mean Democrats in general, then you aren't correct.

barfo

 

[barfo]

Don't forget Lindsey Graham.

Can't I please? Just for an hour or two?

barfo

 

[SlyPokerDog]

One of my favorites, Katie Porter, was re- elected. She is in a swing district and Republicans spent a fortune trying to unseat her.

She worked for a major law firm in Portland, Stoel Rives.

She's the one with the dry-erase board, right?

She is kind of a badass.

 

[Phatguysrule]

If you mean Sinema and Manchin specifically, those two people, then yes, we agree, they like it better the way it is.
If you mean Democrats in general, then you aren't correct.

barfo

That difference doesn't matter in the least. Though I understand it makes you feel better.

 

[barfo]

That difference doesn't matter in the least. Though I understand it makes you feel better.

Well, it matters if you actually want to understand what's going on and what might improve things.

If you just want to rant and spread blame indiscriminately, it truly doesn't matter.

barfo

 

[Chris Craig]

She worked for a major law firm in Portland, Stoel Rives.

She's the one with the dry-erase board, right?

She is kind of a badass.

Yes. She is definitely badass.

Try and challenge that whiteboard, I fucking dare you.

 

[crandc]

She worked for a major law firm in Portland, Stoel Rives.

She's the one with the dry-erase board, right?

She is kind of a badass.

Yes, that is her. She was once a student of Elizabeth Warren.

 

[crandc]

Women's rights supporters in Ohio planned a state ballot measure to overturn abortion ban. Republicans who control state legislature are countering with new law that would require ballot measures to get 60% of the vote instead of simple majority. That would have to be on the ballot. They propose a special election, which means probable low turnout. That ballot measure would only need simple majority.

They can't win on issues. Even Republican women get pregnant.

 

[Chris Craig]

Women's rights supporters in Ohio planned a state ballot measure to overturn abortion ban. Republicans who control state legislature are countering with new law that would require ballot measures to get 60% of the vote instead of simple majority. That would have to be on the ballot. They propose a special election, which means probable low turnout. That ballot measure would only need simple majority.

They can't win on issues. Even Republican women get pregnant.

They will try any dirty tactic they can.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Well, it matters if you actually want to understand what's going on and what might improve things.

If you just want to rant and spread blame indiscriminately, it truly doesn't matter.

barfo

Oh, ok. Maybe I'm just misunderstanding. What are democrats doing to address the situation?

 

[barfo]

Oh, ok. Maybe I'm just misunderstanding. What are democrats doing to address the situation?

Unfortunately, there's nothing they can do for the foreseeable future to actually change the campaign finance rules.

They don't have the power. Doesn't mean they don't want to.


Similarly, there's nothing you & I can do to fix the problem. You & I don't have the power.

But the fact that you & I aren't fixing it - that doesn't somehow imply that you & I are happy with the situation as-is.

barfo

 

[Phatguysrule]

Unfortunately, there's nothing they can do for the foreseeable future to actually change the campaign finance rules.

They don't have the power. Doesn't mean they don't want to.


Similarly, there's nothing you & I can do to fix the problem. You & I don't have the power.

But the fact that you & I aren't fixing it - that doesn't somehow imply that you & I are happy with the situation as-is.

barfo

I'm talking about fixing it and taking steps to fix it. Calling out the fact that it's not fixed or being addressed. You know, pushing for it to be addressed.

Dems aren't.

 

[barfo]

I'm talking about fixing it and taking steps to fix it. Calling out the fact that it's not fixed or being addressed. You know, pushing for it to be addressed.

Dems aren't.

That isn't actually true, though.

Fer instance - HR1, that the House passed during this current congress? It contained a number of campaign finance reforms.

Didn't go anywhere in the Senate of course, but passing it in the House should at least qualify for some credit for 'talking about fixing it'.

barfo

 

[Phatguysrule]

That isn't actually true, though.

Fer instance - HR1, that the House passed during this current congress? It contained a number of campaign finance reforms.

Didn't go anywhere in the Senate of course, but passing it in the House should at least qualify for some credit for 'talking about fixing it'.

barfo

Yeah. Looks like virtue signaling to me... That was never intended to go anywhere.

 

[Chris Craig]

Yeah. Looks like virtue signaling to me... That was never intended to go anywhere.

Actually it was intended to go through, just as many other bills the Dems passed in the house were. They didn't have the votes in the Senate, like you strangely insisted above. Every Dem but Sinema and Manchin we're ready to go, but those two wouldn't vote the bills sponsored by fellow Dems through.

 

[barfo]

I'm talking about fixing it and taking steps to fix it. Calling out the fact that it's not fixed or being addressed. You know, pushing for it to be addressed.

Dems aren't.

That isn't actually true, though.

Fer instance - HR1, that the House passed during this current congress? It contained a number of campaign finance reforms.

Yeah. Looks like virtue signaling to me... That was never intended to go anywhere.

Ok, so you complaining on an off-topic board on a sports forum counts as 'pushing for it', whereas passing actual legislation on the subject is 'virtue signalling'.

Hmm.

barfo