Now I have to hear a year of this worthless Derek Jeter crap

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Web links are fun but facts are better. When Meter hangs it up after this season very few in the history of the game will have matched his career.
 
panzerporter said:
To be fair the arguments biased Jeter haters like dis & 31 make hold no more water than those by hardcore fans like myself who appreciated Jeter as a player and role model. But I'll throw in my 2 cents: Jeter ranks 29th all time fielding percentage (Ripken 11th, Arod 21st), hardly a hack at the position and spare me the Sabermetrics unless you're going to include the number of base hits Jeter's height allowed him to snare while shorter SS's with more lateral range would be heading out to left for the cutoff throw. In 20 years Ripken only hit over .300 5 times while Jeter did it 12 times in 18 years. Jeter's a classy player who gave 100% and unlike the cheater A-rod stayed away from the juice, I think he should go 1st vote but either way he'll be in the Hall.
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Well put Panze, I never realized how many frustrated Mutt fans there are on this board. And great point on Jeters size and jumping ability that made plays not many others can on line drives that shows up nowhere. One thing that always bothered me on range is which metric, war, score, lmnop , etc takes into acct that someone looks out of position or can't get to a ball somewhere do their placing by their so-called genius coaches. As for A-rod's GG's and range I now discount that based on he had rockets up his ass from all the steroids he was on. The bottom line is Jeter is a great ballplayer who can beat you in a million different ways, every gm wants him and is only interested in winning and not in telling everyone how great he is. He will be a first ballot hall of famer with I predict one of the highest percentages of any player voted in. To knock Jeter and to say he's overrated is clueless.
 
We can agree to disagree. Jeter was a great player. I just think singles hitters are largely over rated. He absolutely is a HOFer but Yankees fans act like he is best SS ever in baseball and it simply isn't true
 
Disturbed said:
We can agree to disagree. Jeter was a great player. I just think singles hitters are largely over rated. He absolutely is a HOFer but Yankees fans act like he is best SS ever in baseball and it simply isn't true
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Maybe not greatest ever but top 3 to 5 for sure and best in NY history. He did by the way have 549 doubles and 250 something homers so does have a little pop. Maybe if A-roid and Tejada would have shared some of their stash with him would have doubled power numbers also.

.
 
lol, surprised it took 3 pages for the Yankee homers to start calling names. It's ok if people want to sleep on their Jeter pillow cases, but that doesn't take away the fact he's hugely overrated, even if he's still a HOF'er.
 
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NYR31 said:
lol, surprised it took 3 pages for the Yankee homers to start calling names. It's ok if people want to sleep on their Jeter pillow cases, but that doesn't take away the fact he's hugely overrated, even if he's still a HOF'er.
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Come on 31, calling names? you mean like jehovah witnesses. LOL. Tickets going on sale tmo for the july, 2020 hall of fame induction ceremony in cooperstown
 
NYR31 said:
lol, surprised it took 3 pages for the Yankee homers to start calling names. It's ok if people want to sleep on their Jeter pillow cases, but that doesn't take away the fact he's hugely overrated, even if he's still a HOF'er.
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Again, I don't see how a guy who will likely retire with 3500 hits and a great post season resume is overrated. That argument never made any sense and still continues to not make any sense.
 
Dis, you say Wow. I say Wow to you. Please tell me where I ever said he was a GREAT defensive SS. You have to resort to making things up now. Never said that. You know, there is something in between great and average. Average defensive players don't make plays like the flip play or the dive into the seats play. Run of the mill average guys don't make plays like that. I realize that's your way of disparaging him is to say he was just average. Have fun with your hate.
 
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As a long time Yankee fan I'm hard pressed to remember games that the Yankees lost because Jeter didn't get to a ball in the hole, can remember plenty of games he won with the glove. Jeter was as good as any shortstop that played on slow rollers and turning the DP. This whole range fantasy was concocted by the Yankee hating ESPN years ago and latched onto by disgruntled Met and Sox fans who never had a comparable player to root for (Ordonez? Nomar? Laughable). Sorry Big Papi seems like a nice guy but he's a test failing proven cheater, can't think of any Met player of recent memory to compare to Jeter enough said. As far as the slap hitting goes 1/4 of Jeter's hits were for extra bases, similar to most Hall of Famers but Jeter hit .312 in 2012 so he's hardly hanging on.
 
Jeter is/was the best SS in the modern era (last 20 years). I just think long term he wasn't that much better then a guy like Alan Trammell. Jeter was better offensively but played in an era 90s/2000's that was much better in general them Trammell in 70's/80's. Trammell was MUCH better defensively. Jeter gets a lot of credit for not only winning 5 rings but you could argue he was the best player on 3-4 of those teams.

He never led the league at ANYTHING. And despite Yankee fanboys loving his defense it simply isn't true. Forgive me if I will trust saber metrics and look at WAR to evaluate a players defense vs listening to life long Yankees fans who have "watched every Jeter play".

Also this argument of "see you at the HOF induction" is stupid...Nobody here is not saying he isn't a HOFer. He absolutely is. Best SS of his generation. But he is still over rated 2500 singles and all....
 
Sorry 62 you said he was very good defensively not great. Also false though
 
Dis -Also this argument of "see you at the HOF induction" is stupid...Nobody here is not saying he isn't a HOFer. He absolutely is. Best SS of his generation. But he is still over rated 2500 singles and all….

Dis - As you say if he is an absolute HOFer- I agree, best SS of his generation- I agree, How exactly is he overrated?
 
Most current Yankees fans are a bunch of bandwagon tools who wouldn't ever support the team if they stunk. They are also obnoxious dirtbags who should be horsewhipped on the street and then thrown down the nearest sewer. It's amazing how many losers I see wearing SeaHawk jerseys around here now. Same crap.
 
dumpstralmannow said:
Most current Yankees fans are a bunch of bandwagon tools who wouldn't ever support the team if they stunk. They are also obnoxious dirtbags who should be horsewhipped on the street and then thrown down the nearest sewer. It's amazing how many losers I see wearing SeaHawk jerseys around here now. Same crap.
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Such an absurd statement. Every successful club is going to have their bandwagon fans but to say most Yankee fans are is just silly.
 
No it's not. I've been to plenty of Yankees games. The fans are obnoxious. If you cheer for another team. They insult you, start crap with you. Most of the time they are drunk. Not to mention, half the losers posing as Yankees fans sit there on their stupid cell phone not even watching the game.
 
You get obnoxious fans everywhere. I've seen people at MSG acting like morons. On the flip side I had partial plans to the Yanks for years and attended a hundred Red Sox vs Yankee games. Got along with everyone including Sox fans and had a great time.
 
Jeter owes a lot of those hits just from the fact that he played in some of the best lineups ever. You couldn't pitch around him, because someone just as good, or better was waiting in the batters box. He saw a lot of god pitches to hit. Now, I want to test that theory on Robinson Cano. Let's see how he does in Seattle.
 
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Jeter is great because he was very good for a very long time. He was never great in any 1 season though and that is why I think he's over rated
 
Not great in any 1 season. LMAO. I'm sure you might be able to pick out a few out of these including 2012 when this overrated piece of shit led the league in hits at age 38. Now, I am admittedly biased on Jeter although not a jehovas witness but I see A LOT of great seasons here.

ear Age Tm Lg G PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS OPS+ TB GDP HBP SH SF IBB Pos Awards
1995 21 NYY AL 15 51 48 5 12 4 1 0 7 0 0 3 11 .250 .294 .375 .669 74 18 0 0 0 0 0 6
1996 22 NYY AL 157 654 582 104 183 25 6 10 78 14 7 48 102 .314 .370 .430 .800 101 250 13 9 6 9 1 *6 RoY-1
1997 23 NYY AL 159 748 654 116 190 31 7 10 70 23 12 74 125 .291 .370 .405 .775 103 265 14 10 8 2 0 *6 MVP-24
1998 24 NYY AL 149 694 626 127 203 25 8 19 84 30 6 57 119 .324 .384 .481 .864 127 301 13 5 3 3 1 *6 AS,MVP-3
1999 25 NYY AL 158 739 627 134 219 37 9 24 102 19 8 91 116 .349 .438 .552 .989 153 346 12 12 3 6 5 *6 AS,MVP-6
2000 26 NYY AL 148 679 593 119 201 31 4 15 73 22 4 68 99 .339 .416 .481 .896 128 285 14 12 3 3 4 *6 AS,MVP-10
2001 27 NYY AL 150 686 614 110 191 35 3 21 74 27 3 56 99 .311 .377 .480 .858 124 295 13 10 5 1 3 *6 AS,MVP-10
2002 28 NYY AL 157 730 644 124 191 26 0 18 75 32 3 73 114 .297 .373 .421 .794 111 271 14 7 3 3 2 *6/D AS
2003 29 NYY AL 119 542 482 87 156 25 3 10 52 11 5 43 88 .324 .393 .450 .844 125 217 10 13 3 1 2 *6 MVP-21
2004 30 NYY AL 154 721 643 111 188 44 1 23 78 23 4 46 99 .292 .352 .471 .823 114 303 19 14 16 2 1 *6 AS,MVP-13,GG
2005 31 NYY AL 159 752 654 122 202 25 5 19 70 14 5 77 117 .309 .389 .450 .839 125 294 15 11 7 3 3 *6/D MVP-10,GG
2006 32 NYY AL 154 715 623 118 214 39 3 14 97 34 5 69 102 .343 .417 .483 .900 132 301 13 12 7 4 4 *6/D AS,MVP-2,GG,SS
2007 33 NYY AL 156 714 639 102 206 39 4 12 73 15 8 56 100 .322 .388 .452 .840 121 289 21 14 3 2 3 *6 AS,MVP-11,SS
2008 34 NYY AL 150 668 596 88 179 25 3 11 69 11 5 52 85 .300 .363 .408 .771 102 243 24 9 7 4 0 *6/D AS,SS
2009 35 NYY AL 153 716 634 107 212 27 1 18 66 30 5 72 90 .334 .406 .465 .871 125 295 18 5 4 1 4 *6/D AS,MVP-3,GG,SS
2010 36 NYY AL 157 739 663 111 179 30 3 10 67 18 5 63 106 .270 .340 .370 .710 90 245 22 9 1 3 4 *6/D AS,GG
2011 37 NYY AL 131 607 546 84 162 24 4 6 61 16 6 46 81 .297 .355 .388 .743 100 212 10 6 4 5 0 *6D AS
2012 38 NYY AL 159 740 683 99 216 32 0 15 58 9 4 45 90 .316 .362 .429 .791 114 293 24 5 6 1 1 *6D AS,MVP-7,SS
2013 39 NYY AL 17 73 63 8 12 1 0 1 7 0 0 8 10 .190 .288 .254 .542 51 16 3 1 0 1 1 6/D
19 Yrs 2602 11968 10614 1876 3316 525 65 256 1261 348 95 1047 1753 .312 .381 .446 .828 117 4739 272 164 89 54 39
 
The most impressive part of his stats are the 200 hit seasons.
 
The most impressive thing about Jeter is the sheer number of hits but keep in mind he also had 700+ plate appearances 10 times in his career. it is still very very hard to get 200 hits but he hit 2nd for really good offensive teams and that helps.

I guess I need to look at this from a lifetime achievement standpoint. You cannot argue the total body of work. I think Jeter is VASTLY overrated defensively but he is going to end up with close to 3500 hits and that is ridiculous especially for a SS.

On paper, to me a great player needs to have multiple GREAT seasons and Jeter outside of 1999 doesn't have many of those. But if you look at his career as a whole and judge the body of work in terms of totals I think it a good argument to support you guys. Even more so given his position as a SS.

Detractors will say he never won an MVP. Never won a batting title. He hit 2nd for largely loaded offensive teams and only led the league in runs scored once. He led the league in hits twice but the 2nd time included 160+ singles. He didn't win a GG until his reputation as a baseball legend had started as any sabermetric fan will not only say he wasn't great defensively they will say he was BELOW AVERAGE as his range was terrible. Jeter fans will elevate him by saying he was great in the playoffs but his playoff numbers are very similar to his reg season numbers overall....again they are really good but great?

Supporters will point out the obvious: Great team player, 5 championships, 3500 hits playing the toughest position in baseball, was extremely clutch and he only cared about winning. Also given the lack of long productive SS careers its pretty easy to argue at worst he is top 10 all time.

I guess players can become great by being a very good player for 20 years. I can buy into that actually.

Fair enough?

This is a better stats reference btw

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/j/jeterde01.shtml
 
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Disturbed said:
The most impressive thing about Jeter is the sheer number of hits but keep in mind he also had 700+ plate appearances 10 times in his career. it is still very very hard to get 200 hits but he hit 2nd for really good offensive teams and that helps.

I guess I need to look at this from a lifetime achievement standpoint. You cannot argue the total body of work. I think Jeter is VASTLY overrated defensively but he is going to end up with close to 3500 hits and that is ridiculous especially for a SS.

On paper, to me a great player needs to have multiple GREAT seasons and Jeter outside of 1999 doesn't have many of those. But if you look at his career as a whole and judge the body of work in terms of totals I think it a good argument to support you guys. Even more so given his position as a SS.

Detractors will say he never won an MVP. Never won a batting title. He hit 2nd for largely loaded offensive teams and only led the league in runs scored once. He led the league in hits twice but the 2nd time included 160+ singles. He didn't win a GG until his reputation as a baseball legend had started as any sabermetric fan will not only say he wasn't great defensively they will say he was BELOW AVERAGE as his range was terrible. Jeter fans will elevate him by saying he was great in the playoffs but his playoff numbers are very similar to his reg season numbers overall....again they are really good but great?

Supporters will point out the obvious: Great team player, 5 championships, 3500 hits playing the toughest position in baseball, was extremely clutch and he only cared about winning. Also given the lack of long productive SS careers its pretty easy to argue at worst he is top 10 all time.

I guess players can become great by being a very good player for 20 years. I can buy into that actually.

Fair enough?

This is a better stats reference btw

http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/j/jeterde01.shtml
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Dis - glad your being jeter-ized. LOL. Detractors might also look at his 7 top 10 mvp finishes including a 2nd and a 3rd. And when you bat .324, .334, .339, .343, .349 and don't win a batting title its called SUCK LUCK, Ha ha ha. He did lead the league in total hits twice however including 216 as an old man of 38.
 
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mrmel29 said:
Dis - glad your being jeter-ized. LOL. Detractors might also look at his 7 top 10 mvp finishes including a 2nd and a 3rd. And when you bat .324, .334, .339, .343, .349 and don't win a batting title its called SUCK LUCK, Ha ha ha. He did lead the league in total hits twice however including 216 as an old man of 38.
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Mel this dumpster clown is an idiot. Okay so I'm stating the obvious. You mention a few of the things here that I was going to post so please forgive me for repeating some of those facts.

Just a few of the things that the over-rated Jeter has accomplished in his shity career....

12 - 300 BA seasons
8 - 200 hit seasons. Only Pete Rose, Ty Cobb & Ichiro have had more.
A career 312 hitter
Over 3,300 hits & may finish in the top 5 ALL TIME.
Rookie of the year.
13 All star games.
8 top 10 MVP finishes
3 top 3 MVP finishes
And finally a career 308 post season hitter.

Yeah dumpster you're right.......real over-rated..............you're a moron.


And to you guys calling him a singles hitter & referring to his near 2500 singles. Allow me to educate you a bit. That's approx 75% of his hits. So I guess single hitters like Rose 75%, Cobb 72%, Collins 79% & Carew 78% just to name a few other SINGLES hitters are also over-rated. Please guys...enough already.
 
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The takeaway of this thread is: LOL @ Jeter fans.
 
NYR31 said:
The takeaway of this thread is: LOL @ Jeter fans.
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Let me guess, you & this other joke Dumpster are very close friends. Look, Jeter was better then many at short & not as good as others, so I would NEVER use the word GREAT in discribing Jeter's defensive abilities BUT.......When you look at ALL his career numbers (see ENTIRE post #87 for an education) anyone above the age of 12 who uses the word over-rated is not only an idiot but knows VERY little about the game. Because seriously its just a stupid statement. There's just no other word for it. Being a hater is one thing but one doesn't have to also sound like a complete moron while doing it.
 
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