Exclusive Nurk has to go too

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SharpesTriumph said:
"Actively look to trade Nurk" vs "he has to go" are two completely different statements. I'm fine with the first, but I'm not giving up assets to do the second.

I'd say Blazers should "actively look to trade" ______ veterans on the team. Grant when he can, Nurk, Thybulle in a few months, possible even Ant if he has value and Scoot/Sharpe play good enough to project as long term starters. The Blazers are a long way from contending, so right now they need to prioritize building assets.

They should NOT be looking to give away assets to dump players or do "addition by subtraction"
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Assuming that Dame goes out, what is the order of players the Blazers should be looking to move away from in your opinion?

IMHO, Nurk is the #1 player the Blazers should be looking to move away from. He has a long contract of a sizeable amount where he does not fit with the team's philosophy (and have not since the coaching change).

That, to me, is "has to go too".

Ant is problematic to keep as a starter if the future really is Sharpe / Scoot, but the Blazers at least have to look at it and see if it pans out and even if it does, Ant is a great 6th man / backup PG / SG combo to have, so he is nowhere near as high on the "has to go" list.

Grant plays a position of need - and can be fit in any modern NBA system unless he is required to play the center position. So, he is lower in the "has to go" list, imho.

Thybulle is not a player the Blazers need to move from imho, he currently offers a true perimeter defender and can play as a starter for a rebuilding team or a backup if Rupert really proves to be a modern Batum for the team in the future.

Nurkic does not fit. Simple as that. That's what I take from "has to go too". The team has changed it's goals once Dame asked out. This means contending is out of the question in the near future, slowing down Jokic / Embiid is of no consequence, and since young bigs take time to develop, it would be stupid not to try and find one and give him as long a runway as possible to do it.
 
Nurk would make a fine addition to a contending bench. He is not a starter on a top tier team imho. But he is a very good passer and shot blacker on a not too bad contract
 
andalusian said:
Assuming that Dame goes out, what is the order of players the Blazers should be looking to move away from in your opinion?

IMHO, Nurk is the #1 player the Blazers should be looking to move away from. He has a long contract of a sizeable amount where he does not fit with the team's philosophy (and have not since the coaching change).

That, to me, is "has to go too".

Ant is problematic to keep as a starter if the future really is Sharpe / Scoot, but the Blazers at least have to look at it and see if it pans out and even if it does, Ant is a great 6th man / backup PG / SG combo to have, so he is nowhere near as high on the "has to go" list.

Grant plays a position of need - and can be fit in any modern NBA system unless he is required to play the center position. So, he is lower in the "has to go" list, imho.

Thybulle is not a player the Blazers need to move from imho, he currently offers a true perimeter defender and can play as a starter for a rebuilding team or a backup if Rupert really proves to be a modern Batum for the team in the future.

Nurkic does not fit. Simple as that. That's what I take from "has to go too". The team has changed it's goals once Dame asked out. This means contending is out of the question in the near future, slowing down Jokic / Embiid is of no consequence, and since young bigs take time to develop, it would be stupid not to try and find one and give him as long a runway as possible to do it.
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Lets say you get you way and Nurk is "to go too", then who plays center?

Jabari Walker is the only player over 6'8". I don't want a young 2nd year player having to deal with that physicality when he should be developing as a forward. Only other options are two guys on two ways - I saw both in person in Vegas and they are not ready for regular NBA minutes. Badji I'm not sure is even ready for the G League. Butler is skinny as hell and might even get most his minutes at PF - he usually played alongside a center in summer league.

The Blazers at least have plenty of options at Thybulle and Grant's position.

I just don't see any problem at all keeping Nurk. If we get positive value for him then fine I'd consider it.

Its weird so many fans criticize the lack of height on this team then go around trying to get rid of the only big, who is injured often and probably only plays 20-25 minutes when healthy.
 
Natebishop3 said:
You guys keep saying that the circumstances were different in Denver, but it's not about the circumstances. It's about how he reacted to things not going his way. Let's not pretend that this dude hasn't sulked on the Blazers. That's just how he is wired.
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Well if it becomes a major problem deal with it then. I have a completely different expectation, I don't believe Nurk will have any issue here if the team is losing. He loves to pass, set screens, and puts in effort on defense. He loves Dame and is tight with him but I expect if Nurk stays he will become close to Scoot and the others that are here.

We don't need a solution to a non-existent problem.
 
andalusian said:
Assuming that Dame goes out, what is the order of players the Blazers should be looking to move away from in your opinion?

IMHO, Nurk is the #1 player the Blazers should be looking to move away from. He has a long contract of a sizeable amount where he does not fit with the team's philosophy (and have not since the coaching change).

That, to me, is "has to go too".

Ant is problematic to keep as a starter if the future really is Sharpe / Scoot, but the Blazers at least have to look at it and see if it pans out and even if it does, Ant is a great 6th man / backup PG / SG combo to have, so he is nowhere near as high on the "has to go" list.

Grant plays a position of need - and can be fit in any modern NBA system unless he is required to play the center position. So, he is lower in the "has to go" list, imho.

Thybulle is not a player the Blazers need to move from imho, he currently offers a true perimeter defender and can play as a starter for a rebuilding team or a backup if Rupert really proves to be a modern Batum for the team in the future.

Nurkic does not fit. Simple as that. That's what I take from "has to go too". The team has changed it's goals once Dame asked out. This means contending is out of the question in the near future, slowing down Jokic / Embiid is of no consequence, and since young bigs take time to develop, it would be stupid not to try and find one and give him as long a runway as possible to do it.
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Ant I'm a huge fan of and definitely want to see how next season plays out. I might want to keep all three even if Scoot/Sharpe become stars. But theres a very real chance one of Scoot/Sharpe are busts so just as a due diligence having Ant is a great additional option.

Thybulle seems to be a good locker room guy.

Grant is on a massive contract so I'd be looking to get out of that ASAP. A lot of risk it could become a boat anchor to this franchise for 5 years if he declines. Hopefully Dallas or a desperate team will give up a pick at the deadline.

I think its important to have a mix of veterans along with our youth. I don't want only young guys on the roster as that slows their development.

However with the team being nowhere close to contending I'd like to see them actively explore deals for all of these players including Nurk. We desperately need to build up our long term assets. If we can get assets back for one of these guys then maybe the team should pull the trigger, and add any other needed or lower salary vets to replace any leadership void that is needed.

I wouldn't get rid of any of these players just to do "addition by subtraction" including Nurk or Grant. They will all be fine playing or even starting next season. We are so far from having an overcrowded roster with lack of players deserving minutes that trying to get rid of one of the few rotational players we have is beyond ludicrious.
 
illmatic99 said:
Just a quick followup from more Insta browsing. Almost certain Nurk is getting hitched this weekend in Dubrovnik, Croatia. A buncha blazers staffers are going.

As is Cronin.

As is Dame.

Interesting.
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I doubt Goodwin will be there
 
illmatic99 said:
Just a quick followup from more Insta browsing. Almost certain Nurk is getting hitched this weekend in Dubrovnik, Croatia. A buncha blazers staffers are going.

As is Cronin.

As is Dame.

Interesting.
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Dame and Joe sitting at the same table...

awkward-family-awkward.gif
 
SharpesTriumph said:
Wiseman and Nurk don't need to play 40+ mpg... There's plenty of minutes for both. Might even be room for three of these centers with how often those first two have been injured. Adding a player like Wiseman can be done irrespective of any trade or non trade of Nurk.
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There's no need for Nurk. He's a bad contract who would only be holding back players we'd like to develop at the same position. Chauncey wants to play differently.
 
illmatic99 said:
Just a quick followup from more Insta browsing. Almost certain Nurk is getting hitched this weekend in Dubrovnik, Croatia. A buncha blazers staffers are going.

As is Cronin.

As is Dame.

Interesting.
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It's all love. They paid him good money, regardless if they trade him or not.
 
bemac said:
Hoping the style of play becomes faster, less iso and more ball movement, so definitely don't think he fits any longer. As much as he frustrates, he does have his shining moments.
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I cannot like or upvote this thought enough. Enough of the iso offense. The only thing it does is inflates numbers for one person that you eventually have to throw a ton of money to keep.
 
3putt said:
I cannot like or upvote this thought enough. Enough of the iso offense. The only thing it does is inflates numbers for one person that you eventually have to throw a ton of money to keep.
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Nurks been pretty good for ball movement. I think ultimately Scoot and Ant passing earlier will do more for ball movement and also yes hopefully less iso.

I'm good with playing faster. I'll believe it when I see it though, I've been hearing that every off-season since we had Mike Barret announcing and Juan Dixon starting.

It's a bit crazy to think that since that time it's been basically Roy then Dame dominating our whole offense all the years since.
 
Nurk getting his picture on the season ticket poster tells me he's a Blazer...I think it was Ant Nurk Jerami and Shaedon
 
Nurk doesn't look good with players who walk the ball up the court and don't move or pass.

Nurk looks good, sometimes very good, with players who push the pace, move around, and pass the ball.

It seems many people want a center who can catch lobs and block shots and not much else.
For me that's a wash if we give up what Nurkic can do in the right environment.
 
SharpesTriumph said:
Nurks been pretty good for ball movement. I think ultimately Scoot and Ant passing earlier will do more for ball movement and also yes hopefully less iso.

I'm good with playing faster. I'll believe it when I see it though, I've been hearing that every off-season since we had Mike Barret announcing and Juan Dixon starting.

It's a bit crazy to think that since that time it's been basically Roy then Dame dominating our whole offense all the years since.
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The first step to a fast break is rebounding the ball. That's something Nurkic does well.

Nurkic is also good at throwing outlet passes.
I'm sure he would love doing that compared to handing the ball to Dame or Simons.
 
I think Nurk is going to love playing with Scoot, and Scoot will make it a point of emphasis to get Nurk involved. I'm looking forward to the pick and roll game, and I'd love to see Nurk directing traffic a la Walton and Sabas. We got cutters. We got shooters. My fingers are crossed the Blazers will bring a little joy back to RIP City.
 
blazerfan11 said:
The first step to a fast break is rebounding the ball. That's something Nurkic does well.

Nurkic is also good at throwing outlet passes.
I'm sure he would love doing that compared to handing the ball to Dame or Simons.
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This
 
BBert said:
I think Nurk is going to love playing with Scoot, and Scoot will make it a point of emphasis to get Nurk involved. I'm looking forward to the pick and roll game, and I'd love to see Nurk directing traffic a la Walton and Sabas. We got cutters. We got shooters. My fingers are crossed the Blazers will bring a little joy back to RIP City.
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I'd love that. We were always our best when we went through Nurk. I gave up hoping for that. It's been so long.
 
wizenheimer said:
unfortunately, the 2nd step is staying healthy and that's not something Nurkic does well
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If he is missing games then to his detractors isn't that "addition by subtraction"?

Either he has positive value in which case missing games is bad. Or no value in which case missing games is irrelevant. Or he has negative value in which case missing games is good.

Some of the Nurk haters try to spin it that it's bad either way which simply logically can't be true.
 
AmirIcon said:
There's no need for Nurk. He's a bad contract who would only be holding back players we'd like to develop at the same position. Chauncey wants to play differently.
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Any players we have that play the same position are so far away from being contributors that Nurk being here will have absolutely no impact on their development.
 
Nurkic has tanked in Portland 2 years straight. He's good with the kids. He's a fun guy to talk to. Nurk sets good screens and can even hit a few 3 pointers now.
woohoo! Nurk bombs get the crowd fired up.

Last year was Jerami's 4th year in a row of extended chilling for a better ping pong ball. Nurkic & Simons both have 2 consecutive seasons of riding the pine for the greater good.

what if there's a lottery odds tug of war between the Spurs, Pistons, Hornets, Wizards, Rockets, Magic & Blazers by the end of next season?? It's important for the Blazers to employ starters that like the idea of accepting an entire month of paid vacation to finish the year on a flop.
 
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SharpesTriumph said:
Either he has positive value in which case missing games is bad. Or no value in which case missing games is irrelevant. Or he has negative value in which case missing games is good.

.
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that's one way to look at it but it sure is slanted

when talking about Nurkic as a C compared to other NBA C's, he isn't worth 18M/year even when healthy; he has negative value. It's probably not significant negative value, but it's pretty damn easy to gauge compared to the rest of the NBA

but that's assuming good health...which Nurk doesn't have. He's been in the NBA for 9 seasons and has averaged playing in 51 games while missing 29 (Covid adjustment). He's missed 36% of his team's games. Now, some of that is due to tanking so you have to adjust downward a bit. Still. And over the last 4 seasons, he's played in 153 games while missing 157. Worse is that in his time in Portland the Blazers have played 35 playoff games and Nurk has missed 19. He isn't there when needed most; although the 'need' is debatable since the Blazers actually had some playoff success with Kanter at C. They lost every series when Nurkic played because traditional C's have diminished roles in the playoffs

gauging player value resides in some foundational factors: talent-versatility-impact-consistency AND availability. Nurk has some talent and he has some regular season impact. Not so much in the playoffs. But he's not versatile or consistent, and his availability is poor. Negative value

the debate has devolved to the point where the biggest remaining argument for Nurkic is simply that Portland doesn't have anybody better. That's a poor argument in his favor, especially for a team in a major rebuild when wins don't matter and with a coach that schemes defense opposite of Nurk's abilities
 
SharpesTriumph said:
If he is missing games then to his detractors isn't that "addition by subtraction"?

Either he has positive value in which case missing games is bad. Or no value in which case missing games is irrelevant. Or he has negative value in which case missing games is good.

Some of the Nurk haters try to spin it that it's bad either way which simply logically can't be true.
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His playing status isn't static in fact it fluctuates wildly. When he's healthy, engaged and in shape, he can be a positive overall. When he's not, he can be a negative. Pretty simple stuff that shouldn't be a stretch for anyone to comprehend.

STOMP
 
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When looking at the contracts of the Blazers players individually, I think you must put on your Portland Talent Excise Tax (PTET) glasses on. We all know Portland has to overpay to keep or acquire talent. Nurk is overpaid, as is Ant and Grant. That is the price to pay to be Portland. PTET is why Portland should be more judicious in the players they sign and extend. They can't just waste money overpaying if eventually they will have to move them.
 
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