Nurk vs. Hassan

[Stevenson]

Help me explain something to my wife: Why is Nurk better than Hassan?

She watches Hassan play, sees his gaudy stats, and I try to explain that even so, Nurk is a better fit for this team. But I can't exactly explain how.

Help please.

 

[BoomChakaLaka]

Whiteside is better than Nurkic. Your wife is right.

 

[GrandpaBlaze]

To me, Nurk fits as key member of the team and the team flow is smoother, better. Hassan puts up great stats but doesn't seem to facilitate to flow of the game for the team as a whole.

 

[Hey]

Better playmaking, better shooter, better perimeter defender, better at team defense.

Blocks and rebounds are the ultimate “empty stat.” You can pile those stats up to the detriment of the team if you pursue them out of the flow of the offense/defense.

That said, Hassan is still very good. If there was a way to keep them both, it’d be awesome. Won’t happen though.

 

[royo]

I don't really get this hate for Hassan's blocks. How are they "empty stats". With Lakers trying go back to the game that block on AD surely pulled some air out of Lakers. Please explain.

 

[royo]

Also, guy just went for 12/13 in a W game and you open another hating thread?

 

[Pinwheel1]

I get that there are things that Nurk is better at, and I get that there are things that frustrate fans that Whiteside does.
But the man has so much length, and enough skill, that allows him to be a huge factor in the game. His stats are not empty, they are very much needed.

 

[Stevenson]

I love Hassan. I'm not hating on him at all. I'm just trying to explain the prevailing take and am having a hard time doing so.

It's a compliment.

 

[Chris Craig]

Hassan is a fantastic player. He can get a double/double any night. He can host block parties. But, Nurk moves with the offense. Hassan stands inside and waits. Nurk never takes a play off. Never gets lazy. Nurk can guard the perimeter, he is a pro at the pick and roll. He is the better passer. He facilitates and he dominates. There is only one beast.

 

[James lamphear]

They both got there strength and if both of those 2 guys keep there ego in check it could be big for this team and especially Zach coming soon. To me we have to be close for the 8th spot and believe we can over take Memphis.

 

[HailBlazers]

Want me to have @THE HCP 's Mrs explain it to your wifey?

 

[Drttimmy]

Help me explain something to my wife: Why is Nurk better than Hassan?

She watches Hassan play, sees his gaudy stats, and I try to explain that even so, Nurk is a better fit for this team. But I can't exactly explain how.

Help please.

I think it's because Nurk's more consistent. Hassan's efforts are just too up and down. But when he's engaged, damn, he's a lot better than I realized. Nurk's touch around the hoop has greatly improved since his first season here, but Hassan and that weird little line drive baby hook shot seems to go in a lot. I think they can play together, since Nurk can play in space. The trick is if Stotts can figure out exactly how to do it. I'm not holding my breath.

 

[kjironman1]

I'm just not seeing "Empty Stats"
Whiteside is very good.
Nurkic is very good
Not sure Nurk is a better fit? The way Dame and Whiteside are starting to mesh is making me wonder.
Your wife might be right.

 

[SharpesTriumph]

If healthy I'd prefer Nurk at his peak. He's only played one playoff series. I think you could contend with either one or even both.

 

[AldoTrapani]

If healthy I'd prefer Nurk at his peak. He's only played one playoff series. I think you could contend with either one or even both.

Unfortunately Nurk is never healthy. He’s already had 2 season ending injuries in his young career. I’m afraid that will be his doom. He’s a great when healthy and playing tho

 

[Rhal]

Better pick n Roll player. Better passer. Better screen setter. Can score in more ways, is a much better team defender and the team is much better defensively when he is on the court. Much better at boxing out, has a presence at the rim that is more like Goberts where people don't want to drive while Whiteside is more like Camby where its not as big a deterrent since players know they can get whiteside to commit to blocking the shot easier.
Is also only making 11 million a season for the next 3 where Whiteside is probably going to be making 20+ after next season.

Edit- almost forgot, much better Nickname.

 

[Neil O. Shyster]

Help me explain something to my wife: Why is Nurk better than Hassan?

She watches Hassan play, sees his gaudy stats, and I try to explain that even so, Nurk is a better fit for this team. But I can't exactly explain how.

Help please.

He’s not

 

[bobf]

Better pick n Roll player. Better passer. Better screen setter. Can score in more ways, is a much better team defender and the team is much better defensively when he is on the court. Much better at boxing out, has a presence at the rim that is more like Goberts where people don't want to drive while Whiteside is more like Camby where its not as big a deterrent since players know they can get whiteside to commit to blocking the shot easier.
Is also only making 11 million a season for the next 3 where Whiteside is probably going to be making 20+ after next season.

Edit- almost forgot, much better Nickname.

Many thumbs up! Actually a lot of great responses here. You guys captured what I see in the court and subconsciously think but couldn’t bring to the level of words.

Love’em and I’d like to keep’em except there’s not enough minutes for two centers of their quality. What to do.

 

[Neil O. Shyster]

Whiteside leads NBA in blocks, 3rd in rebounds, 6th in fg%, 8th in PER... Nurkic will never have a season like this.

 

[bobf]

Whiteside leads NBA in blocks, 3rd in rebounds, 6th in fg%, 8th in PER... Nurkic will never have a season like this.

Nurk already was better last year than Hassan this year in PER, BPM, and RPM.

 

[bobf]

I get that there are things that Nurk is better at, and I get that there are things that frustrate fans that Whiteside does.
But the man has so much length, and enough skill, that allows him to be a huge factor in the game. His stats are not empty, they are very much needed.

I agree his stats are not empty and he’s very good. Just not as good as Nurk was last year. Hopefully Nurk can return to that good and we can find a way to keep and use both of them. That’s 48 minutes of lethal interior defense.

 

[BBert]

Help me explain something to my wife: Why is Nurk better than Hassan?

She watches Hassan play, sees his gaudy stats, and I try to explain that even so, Nurk is a better fit for this team. But I can't exactly explain how.

Help please.

Nurk doesn't fall asleep on defense and allow his man to race past him uncontested for an offensive rebound slam dunk. Whiteside does this often. Nurk can track a ball handler on his drive, cutting off his angle, and still get back to body his man in the key. Whiteside is incapable of this. Nurk is less likely to commit to a block attempt that results in his man getting an open layup. For starters.

 

[KSF-ERIC]

I don't really get this hate for Hassan's blocks. How are they "empty stats". With Lakers trying go back to the game that block on AD surely pulled some air out of Lakers. Please explain.

A lot of times, he goes for a block and gives up a basket or rebound. There’s more to rim protection than blocks. Nurk is a better rim protector. Coaches know this or Hassan would’ve been an All Star.

 

[KSF-ERIC]

Whiteside leads NBA in blocks, 3rd in rebounds, 6th in fg%, 8th in PER... Nurkic will never have a season like this.

Nurk is better defender. Blocks and rebounds don’t tell the whole story.

 

[julius]

Nurk is better defender. Blocks and rebounds don’t tell the whole story.

I was watching the replay, and the play where Anthony Davis tipped in a Kuzma shot, epitomizes the difference between the two. Not saying Nurk is perfect, and boxes out 100% of the time, but it's like Whiteside suffers from the Meyers Leonard syndrome. Forgetting he's 7' tall and needs to box out.

 

[lawai'a]

hands up on defense seems to be a big difference between the two. that and moving their feet.
[QUOTe

 

[Hoopguru]

Its going to come down to if Dame wants Whiteside on this team, if Hassan is willing to stay for workable money and Dame thinks they can make it work effectively, he'll be here another couple years.
Hassan could become a consecutive 6 man of the year and even extend his career.
Then run for Governor.

 

[julius]

Hassan has the skills to be a 20-10 guy, imho, and easily. He's just sloppy at times.

It's like, imho, the difference between Russell Westbrook and Damian. Sure, Westbrook puts up flashier #'s (overall, not this season necessarily), but he's not a better *player* or *teammate* than Damian is.

I'm fine with them keeping Whiteside, as I don't think Nurk will be really productive this season. But I'm fine with them trading him or not re-signing him after this year.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Help me explain something to my wife: Why is Nurk better than Hassan?

She watches Hassan play, sees his gaudy stats, and I try to explain that even so, Nurk is a better fit for this team. But I can't exactly explain how.

Help please.

How do you explain "feel for the game"? It helps to play pickup games. If you played with both of them, you'd know pretty fast.

 

[wizenheimer]

is a much better team defender and the team is much better defensively when he is on the court. Much better at boxing out, has a presence at the rim that is more like Goberts where people don't want to drive while Whiteside is more like Camby where its not as big a deterrent since players know they can get whiteside to commit to blocking the shot easier.

I agree, overall Nurlic is better. But I also think the gap between them, especially on defense, has been ridiculously inflated around here

as for Nurk's supposed across the board advantages on defense, I'm calling a slight level of BS to that. IMO, The defensive impact of a big man on defense will show up in opponent FG percentages in the paint and at the rim; it simply has to. Well, look at how Portland's opponents have shot at the rim and in the paint over the last 2 seasons:

Portland opponent FG% at the rim (0-3') and NBA rank:

2018-19 - .633 (6th)
2019-20 - .611 (2nd)

Portland opponent FG% in 3-10' zone and NBA rank:

2018-19 - .411 (24th)
2019-20 - .371 (6th)

also, consider that Nurkic last season, had the support of Aminu, Zach, Harkless, & Meyers. Meanwhile Whiteside has had the part time support of Skal, Tolliver, Hezonja, and Melo. Those opponent FG% numbers simply wouldn't look like that if Nurkic was a better rim and paint protector than Whiteside

here's something else, Portland's defensive rating and NBA rank in the Dame/CJ 'era'

2015-16 - 108.0 (20th) - Plumlee, Aminu, Harkless, healthy Ed Davis
2016-17 - 110.8 (24th) - Plumlee>Nurkic, Aminu, Harkless, injured Ed Davis
2017-18 - 106.4 (8th) - Nurkic , Aminu, Harkless, Zach, healthy Ed Davis
2018-19 - 110.5 (16th) - Nurkic , Aminu, Harkless, Zach, Ed Davis gone
2019-20 - 113.2 (26th) - Whiteside, part-time Skal, and nobody else

if Nurkic had the magical effect on the defense that many here claim, we would not have see the Blazer defensive rating get 4.1 points worse from 2017-18 thru 2018-19. Defense is a team game, and Ed Davis had an extremely underrated impact on Portland's defense.

again, all of this isn't to say that Nurkic isn't better than Whiteside. I'm saying he is but the gap between them isn't very big at all. In fact, Whiteside does some things better than Nurkic like rebounding an rim protection and Portland is in desperate need of those right now. Even with Dame going supernova, Portland doesn't win that game last night without Whiteside. All the chatter about Whiteside having hollow stats and empty numbers is about 90% bullshit.