Nurk vs. Hassan

[B-Roy]

I agree, overall Nurlic is better. But I also think the gap between them, especially on defense, has been ridiculously inflated around here

as for Nurk's supposed across the board advantages on defense, I'm calling a slight level of BS to that. IMO, The defensive impact of a big man on defense will show up in opponent FG percentages in the paint and at the rim; it simply has to. Well, look at how Portland's opponents have shot at the rim and in the paint over the last 2 seasons:

Portland opponent FG% at the rim (0-3') and NBA rank:

2018-19 - .633 (6th)
2019-20 - .611 (2nd)

Portland opponent FG% in 3-10' zone and NBA rank:

2018-19 - .411 (24th)
2019-20 - .371 (6th)

also, consider that Nurkic last season, had the support of Aminu, Zach, Harkless, & Meyers. Meanwhile Whiteside has had the part time support of Skal, Tolliver, Hezonja, and Melo. Those opponent FG% numbers simply wouldn't look like that if Nurkic was a better rim and paint protector than Whiteside

here's something else, Portland's defensive rating and NBA rank in the Dame/CJ 'era'

2015-16 - 108.0 (20th) - Plumlee, Aminu, Harkless, healthy Ed Davis
2016-17 - 110.8 (24th) - Plumlee>Nurkic, Aminu, Harkless, injured Ed Davis
2017-18 - 106.4 (8th) - Nurkic , Aminu, Harkless, Zach, healthy Ed Davis
2018-19 - 110.5 (16th) - Nurkic , Aminu, Harkless, Zach, Ed Davis gone
2019-20 - 113.2 (26th) - Whiteside, part-time Skal, and nobody else

if Nurkic had the magical effect on the defense that many here claim, we would not have see the Blazer defensive rating get 4.1 points worse from 2017-18 thru 2018-19. Defense is a team game, and Ed Davis had an extremely underrated impact on Portland's defense.

again, all of this isn't to say that Nurkic isn't better than Whiteside. I'm saying he is but the gap between them isn't very big at all. In fact, Whiteside does some things better than Nurkic like rebounding an rim protection and Portland is in desperate need of those right now. Even with Dame going supernova, Portland doesn't win that game last night without Whiteside. All the chatter about Whiteside having hollow stats and empty numbers is about 90% bullshit.

Whiteside takes plays off and has possessions where he absolutely blows it. I remember Zach Lowe defending Jokics defense last year. Basically saying Jokic is generally a good defender, but his bad possessions look so bad it changes people’s perspective of his defense into thinking he’s an awful defender. I think this generally applies to Whiteside as well. He’s a positive defender overall, but sometimes just makes you scratch your head. Something I’ve noticed is that he tends to always look awful in the first quarter but picks it up throughout the gams. Not sure you can change that about him at this point.

 

[wizenheimer]

Whiteside takes plays off and has possessions where he absolutely blows it. I remember Zach Lowe defending Jokics defense last year. Basically saying Jokic is generally a good defender, but his bad possessions look so bad it changes people’s perspective of his defense into thinking he’s an awful defender. I think this generally applies to Whiteside as well. He’s a positive defender overall, but sometimes just makes you scratch your head. Something I’ve noticed is that he tends to always look awful in the first quarter but picks it up throughout the gams. Not sure you can change that about him at this point.

I'm wondering how much of that is him actually "taking plays off" vs the plays essentially being over before he can react. He's not a 'fast-twitch' kind of player. His reactions to blind-side development are slow and he doesn't have great foot speed. He makes up for it with length but that's only effective when he can track action as it develops.

 

[B-Roy]

I'm wondering how much of that is him actually "taking plays off" vs the plays essentially being over before he can react. He's not a 'fast-twitch' kind of player. His reactions to blind-side development are slow and he doesn't have great foot speed. He makes up for it with length but that's only effective when he can track action as it develops.

that’s fair, but in the context of Nurk vs Hassan that’s a big plus for Nurk.

I dunno, I wonder if there is some stats to show how Hassan is worse in the first quarters than the rest of the gams. I doubt it though, since many of his issues are ones that won’t show up on a box score.

 

[Pinwheel1]

Nurk is better defender. Blocks and rebounds don’t tell the whole story.

I agree that Nurk is a better defender against other centers. But how many other centers look to score these days? Nurk also picks up stupid fouls which puts him on the bench. Nurk can not guard other centers on the perimeter either. Nurk had the opportunity of playing alongside Aminu and Harkless. Whiteside has had a carousel of teammates at the forward spot due to injuries.

I agree that Whiteside makes lazy mistakes in every game. But 1 foul in 34 minutes last night is something Nurk can seldom do. Granted that is because he players more aggressively than Hassan, but you can't teach height and Whiteside length is such an advantage. He can actually touch the rim while standing on his tip toes. Hard to argue with 13-14 from the field, 13 rebounds, 5 blocks, 2 steals, 2 assists....

 

[wizenheimer]

that’s fair, but in the context of Nurk vs Hassan that’s a big plus for Nurk.

I dunno, I wonder if there is some stats to show how Hassan is worse in the first quarters than the rest of the gams. I doubt it though, since many of his issues are ones that won’t show up on a box score.

you might find those kinds of numbers somewhere at NBA.com, but good luck wading thru those awkward time-consuming web pages

but again, I just don't believe those opponent FG% numbers would be what they were if Whiteside didn't have a big defensive impact

 

[B-Roy]

you might find those kinds of numbers somewhere at NBA.com, but good luck wading thru those awkward time-consuming web pages

but again, I just don't believe those opponent FG% numbers would be what they were if Whiteside didn't have a big defensive impact

In general, I agree. Whiteside has his faults, but the hate this guy has gotten is completely unwarranted. People seem to focus only on the things he doesn’t do well. The gap is fairly cavernous between first and second, but by my money he’s been the second best player on the team this year. And I’ll die on that hill defending it.

 

[Hoopguru]

In general, I agree. Whiteside has his faults, but the hate this guy has gotten is completely unwarranted. People seem to focus only on the things he doesn’t do well. The gap is fairly cavernous between first and second, but by my money he’s been the second best player on the team this year. And I’ll die on that hill defending it.

you wouldn't trade him fro 2 second rounders next week?

 

[BrianFromWA]

I haven't looked up this year's numbers for Whiteside yet, but we did an analysis about Nurk at one point and his rim protection stats were just behind Gobert and Embiid. He got some All-Defense votes in 2018. The Blazers (admittedly with Big Ed and Collins as well) held opponents to the lowest paint restricted-area percentage in the league in 2018.

With MIA, MIA was on average 4% worse in FG% defended in the paint when he was on the floor. MIA also allowed more shots in the paint when he was on the floor (which makes sense if teammates are funneling shooters to the middle for him to defend, but that's sub-optimal if they're shooting better when that happens). Again, I haven't looked at this year's stats, but those were two of the big ones if you were comparing them last year.

One place that I think Whiteside has Nurk is in aggressiveness around the paint on offense. One of the bigger complaints about Nurk the last couple years is that he basically flings up garbage way too often when near the hoop, whereas Hassan's 60%+ FG% is based in large part by how aggressive he is in dunking when close. Last year Nurk shot 60.3% on shots at the rim (456 of them) and 41.7% in the paint, whereas Hassan's at 70.9% this year (on 261 so far) and 55% in the paint (3-10ft). They both shoot (surprisingly?) similarly on jumpers outside 10'.

 

[B-Roy]

you wouldn't trade him fro 2 second rounders next week?

I think there is value moving him for a more manageable contract on a longer deal, but the people saying we HAVE to get something....I don’t agree with that. And with Nurks recent setback I really don’t think they will move Hassan. The change they get someone as impactful back for this season is almost nil. I just can’t see the FO doing that to Dame.

 

[wizenheimer]

The Blazers (admittedly with Big Ed and Collins as well) held opponents to the lowest paint percentage in the league in 2018.

Portland had the lowest opponent at the rim FG% in 2017-18, but they were 25th in opponent FG% in the 3-10' zone. That differential makes me a little skeptical about having the lowest paint shooting defense

and again, if this was primarily due to Nurkic, we wouldn't see such a big change in at-the-rim defense from 2017-18 to 2018-19. Opponents shot .589 at the rim in 2017-18, and shot .633 last year. That's a huge differential and the only change was no Ed Davis

I think there is value moving him for a more manageable contract on a longer deal, but the people saying we HAVE to get something....I don’t agree with that. And with Nurks recent setback I really don’t think they will move Hassan. The change they get someone as impactful back for this season is almost nil. I just can’t see the FO doing that to Dame.

agreed, and furthermore, securing that "more manageable" contract can happen by re-signing Whiteside this summer. That may be more of a realistic bird-in-the-hand that some speculative trade now

 

[BrianFromWA]

Restricted area. I'll edit it.

To get more specific, the Trail Blazers held opponents to 55 percent shooting in the restricted area last season, the best mark in the NBA by nearly four percentage points. And while teams shot 42 percent in the non-restricted area of the paint versus Portland, they still only gave up an average of 42.1 points in the paint last season, with only the 76ers and the Jazz allowing fewer such points.

 

[wizenheimer]

Restricted area. I'll edit it.

that's for 2017-18, correct?

if so, can you compare numbers for 2017-18 and last season?

 

[42N8Bounce]

Here's a look at how Whiteside and Nurkic stacks up against some of the all-time great Blazer Bigs:

Rebounds per Game:
1. H Whiteside, 13.9
2. B Walton, 13.5
3. S Wicks, 10.3
4. M Camby, 10.0
5. J Nurkic, 9.7
6. K Washington, 9.5
7. M Thompson, 8.9
8. D Schlueter, 8.8
9. B William, 8.7
10. M Lucas, 8.7

Blocks per Game:
1. H Whiteside, 3.1
2. B Walton, 2.6
3. T Ratliff, 2.6
4. S Bowie, 2.5
5. M Camby, 1.6
6. R Lopez, 1.6
7. J Przybilla, 1.5
8. J Nurkic, 1.5
9. M Thompson, 1.4
10. K Washington, 1.3

And just for fun, here's the PER for these guys:
1. H Whiteside, 24.7
2. B Walton, 22.1
3. A Sabonis, 21.2
4. J Nurkic, 21.2
5. L Aldridge, 20.3
6. Z Randolph, 19.5
7. S Wicks, 18.9
8. T Owens, 17.9
9. K Washington, 17.3
10. R Lopez, 17.1
11. M Thompson, 16.8
12. M Lucas, 16.7
13. B Grant, 16.0
14. L Neal, 15.4
15. M Camby, 15.2

Both of these guys are damn good centers.

 

[julius]

I think one of the bigger negative aspects of Nurks game is that he used to be much more finesse. As last season progressed, he wasn't doing it as much as he had in previous years though.

I like how HW will go up stronger and dunk on people, that's for sure.

 

[julius]

It's possible that HW will re-sign (we didn't think Hood would), so this might be a moot point. I don't know if it's likely, as I don't know who is willing to come off the bench though.

 

[wizenheimer]

fleshing that out, NBA.com has opponent shooting stats for less that 5 feet from the rim which pretty much matches the restricted area. The percentages for Portland:

2015-16 - 55.9% (Plumlee + Aminu + healthy Ed Davis)
2016-17 - 55.6% (Plumlee (56games) > Nurkic (20games) + Aminu + semi-healthy Ed Davis)
2017-18 - 54.2% (Nurk + Aminu + Zach + healthy Ed Davis)
2018-19 - 58.9% (Nurk + Aminu + Zach & no Ed Davis)
2019-20 - 56.8% (Whiteside on an island)

again, if Nurkic was better at interior defense than Whiteside, we wouldn't see those 2018-19 numbers, and for sure, we'd see those 2018-19 numbers be better than this year's numbers when Whiteside has been manning the middle essentially by himself.

 

[JDC]

Hassan is definitely the better finisher. More length, touch and patience around the rim.

Better pure rim protector as well.

Rebounding is a tough one. Hassan's individual numbers are better, but team level impact stats still favor Nurkic (both raw on-off data and adjusted over last 5 seasons)--particularly as a defensive rebounder--which confirms eye test. Nurk's physicality and better discipline as a help defender stand out here.

Do agree that gap is a little overblown. I attribute most of that to Nurkic having a more varied skill set and aesthetically pleasing game on both ends.

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

One thing the stats don't tell is how many guys decide not to shoot even though they get all the way into the paint when Hassan is playing. I have said to myself so many times this year: "Why didn't that guy shoot?" And sometimes it seems Hassan might not even be in position to block them but they are so worried that he is there somewhere. Even Le Bron yesterday got into the paint with the ball many times and either passed out or just dribbled right on through.

 

[Road Ratt]

I love Nurk but the way that Hassan is playing for the Blazers this season, he has earned the right to keep the starting center spot the rest of this season. Besides, this would give Nurk time to get back in the game without having to pull full time duties and possibly re-injure himself.

 

[SIeepwalker]

I love Nurk but the way that Hassan is playing for the Blazers this season, he has earned the right to keep the starting center spot the rest of this season. Besides, this would give Nurk time to get back in the game without having to pull full time duties and possibly re-injure himself.

The right ? and what does it give the team ? We need to be smarter. Nurk and Hassan on the same team will not work. None of them will be happy being a backup. And Nurk is locked up on a team friendly deal. There gotta be some contenders looking at Whiteside stats and thinking that guy can help for a title push.
And do you thing Hassan would be that mad at a shot at the championship ?

 

[blazerfan11]

The right ? and what does it give the team ? We need to be smarter. Nurk and Hassan on the same team will not work. None of them will be happy being a backup. And Nurk is locked up on a team friendly deal. There gotta be some contenders looking at Whiteside stats and thinking that guy can help for a title push.
And do you thing Hassan would be that mad at a shot at the championship ?

How do you know that one or both of them won't play as a backup?

 

[Road Ratt]

The right ? and what does it give the team ? We need to be smarter. Nurk and Hassan on the same team will not work. None of them will be happy being a backup. And Nurk is locked up on a team friendly deal. There gotta be some contenders looking at Whiteside stats and thinking that guy can help for a title push.
And do you thing Hassan would be that mad at a shot at the championship ?

That is what a head coach is for, to work out all that B.S. with who might be mad coming off the bench vs. starting. I understand that this team may not be able to keep both Nurk and Hassan for next season. But that is a matter for next season, not this season. I wasn't saying that Hassan should be the Blazers starter permanently, just that with the monster numbers he is putting up this season, in my opinion, it would be in the teams best interest to leave things the way they are at center position for the rest of this season.

Hassan could get a title right here in Portland if he signed a short deal. A Nurk/Hassan double team at center would have the league in fear, or it should anyway. We get Collins and Skal back along with Nurk and this team looks to me to be setup to possibly make a deep run in the playoffs, as long as they can stay healthy, of course. If only Hood were coming back this season too, oh my what a team we would have by playoff time.

 

[bobf]

fleshing that out, NBA.com has opponent shooting stats for less that 5 feet from the rim which pretty much matches the restricted area. The percentages for Portland:

2015-16 - 55.9% (Plumlee + Aminu + healthy Ed Davis)
2016-17 - 55.6% (Plumlee (56games) > Nurkic (20games) + Aminu + semi-healthy Ed Davis)
2017-18 - 54.2% (Nurk + Aminu + Zach + healthy Ed Davis)
2018-19 - 58.9% (Nurk + Aminu + Zach & no Ed Davis)
2019-20 - 56.8% (Whiteside on an island)

again, if Nurkic was better at interior defense than Whiteside, we wouldn't see those 2018-19 numbers, and for sure, we'd see those 2018-19 numbers be better than this year's numbers when Whiteside has been manning the middle essentially by himself.

I think just looking at opponent FG% is too limited. Hassan commits more to blocking shots than Nurk. That lowers FG% but allows more put backs. When a guard gets beat and Nurk is forced to help he routinely feints at the guard to force him to shoot, then backs up to box out his own guy. Smart way to defend but it allows a higher FG%. Teams are more selective against better interior defenders. That offsets the lower FG% with lower quantiy. Nurk faced 7.0 interior shots/game last year vs Hassan's 9.8 this year. But then again, Nurk had better defenders at his side. There's just too many factors going on at the same time. I think it's pretty close defensively. By RPM and BPM both are great defenders but Nurk is a somewhat better. Overall according to both BPM and RPM Nurk was significantly better last year than Hassan is this year.

DBPM
Nurk 3.8, 2.8
Hassan 3.3, 3.0

DRPM (high variance stat so I wouldn't put to much stock in HW 1.07 this year)
Nurk 3.35, 4.08
Hassan 1.07, 3.61, 3.53

They're both very good. Better get value for Hassan.

 

[Portland2014]

I'm so fucking scared of Olshey's decision making, i couldn't tolerate if we lose Whiteside for nothing and Nurkic somehow got worse because of the injury.

I don't want to regret letting go Whiteside a year from now.

 

[lawai'a]

Hassan is definitely the better finisher. More length, touch and patience around the rim.

Better pure rim protector as well.

Rebounding is a tough one. Hassan's individual numbers are better, but team level impact stats still favor Nurkic (both raw on-off data and adjusted over last 5 seasons)--particularly as a defensive rebounder--which confirms eye test. Nurk's physicality and better discipline as a help defender stand out here.

Do agree that gap is a little overblown. I attribute most of that to Nurkic having a more varied skill set and aesthetically pleasing game on both ends.

0
Posted by
u/shaqrandolph
2 hours ago
I'm talking box outs and you're invited.

I was looking through some stats in my spare time, trying to see if the numbers show any sign of what exactly we're missing [other than all our fknnn players] when I came across something pretty disappointing to read; our box out numbers are waaay down.



Let's take a look at the totals up until this point for last season



NAME MINS TOTAL BOX OUTS
Jusuf Nurkic 1647 509
Zach Collins 1035 294
Meyers Leonard 754 238
Al-Farouq Aminu 1765 229


Top 4 from last season above. Jake Layman was next with 68, Kanter had only played 5 games at this point of the season.



Comrades, please journey with me through the numbers for this season

NAME MINS TOTAL BOX OUTS
Hassan Whiteside 1742 154
Carmelo Anthony 1476 115
Anthony Tolliver 554 93
Skal Labissiere 567 89


Top 4 arranged above. The difference a year makes is truly curious. Despite more overall minutes played, Hassan Whiteside has only boxed out 30% of what Nurkic was able to accomplish to this point [3rd March] last year. The loss of Collins has likely magnified this issue but this is finally something quantifiable that paints the other side of Whitesides outstanding stats.



I don't blame Whiteside either as I think it's more of a physically limitation [lack of width and lower half strength] rather than an effort issue. Another factor to consider, is the evolution of the league in general. Houston have fully embraced small ball and other teams have also chosen to anger environmentalists, using stretchy, small ball plastic 5s over recycling possessions with traditional bigs. Lets compare last seasons overall box out leaders at this point with how they're tracking this season:



NAME 2018-19 TBO 2019-20 TBO
LAMARCUS ALDRIDGE 632 290
NIKOLA VUCEVIC 588 269
STEVEN ADAMS 579 275
BAM ADEBAYO 505 364
Numbers are down across the board as shown above. In fact, Adebayo is this years league leader with the 364 he has. Ed Davis and nurkic were top 5 last year but not displayed due to injuries this year.

Does this drop across the board absolve Whiteside of blame? Again I wouldn't blame him for this seasons turbulence however even during his final 2 seasons with Miami he was only the 3rd best box out guy behind Bam and Olynyk.



TL;DR - Whiteside doesn't box out at alll! Hold up, no one does anymore! Hold up, Whiteside never did. Stay Me700

I can not take any credit for this as i have ripped this poster's hard work from a competing forum.
i found the stats included to be quite interesting/enlightening in both the debate surrounding of eye-test/impact conversation of our current center and why perhaps we perceive a "lazy" version of whiteside from time to time. Securing the rebound as a critical component of the defensive side of the ball, i feel the stats help with the perception of why we look so much worse on that side of the court regularly also. Stott's better versions of team defense have in the past featured strong team rebounders/boxing out, Ed Davis, Robin Lopez Lamarcus, even leonard.... not so much this year

 

[UKRAINEFAN]

0
Posted by
u/shaqrandolph
2 hours ago
I'm talking box outs and you're invited.

I was looking through some stats in my spare time, trying to see if the numbers show any sign of what exactly we're missing [other than all our fknnn players] when I came across something pretty disappointing to read; our box out numbers are waaay down.



Let's take a look at the totals up until this point for last season



NAME MINS TOTAL BOX OUTS
Jusuf Nurkic 1647 509
Zach Collins 1035 294
Meyers Leonard 754 238
Al-Farouq Aminu 1765 229


Top 4 from last season above. Jake Layman was next with 68, Kanter had only played 5 games at this point of the season.



Comrades, please journey with me through the numbers for this season

NAME MINS TOTAL BOX OUTS
Hassan Whiteside 1742 154
Carmelo Anthony 1476 115
Anthony Tolliver 554 93
Skal Labissiere 567 89


Top 4 arranged above. The difference a year makes is truly curious. Despite more overall minutes played, Hassan Whiteside has only boxed out 30% of what Nurkic was able to accomplish to this point [3rd March] last year. The loss of Collins has likely magnified this issue but this is finally something quantifiable that paints the other side of Whitesides outstanding stats.



I don't blame Whiteside either as I think it's more of a physically limitation [lack of width and lower half strength] rather than an effort issue. Another factor to consider, is the evolution of the league in general. Houston have fully embraced small ball and other teams have also chosen to anger environmentalists, using stretchy, small ball plastic 5s over recycling possessions with traditional bigs. Lets compare last seasons overall box out leaders at this point with how they're tracking this season:



NAME 2018-19 TBO 2019-20 TBO
LAMARCUS ALDRIDGE 632 290
NIKOLA VUCEVIC 588 269
STEVEN ADAMS 579 275
BAM ADEBAYO 505 364
Numbers are down across the board as shown above. In fact, Adebayo is this years league leader with the 364 he has. Ed Davis and nurkic were top 5 last year but not displayed due to injuries this year.

Does this drop across the board absolve Whiteside of blame? Again I wouldn't blame him for this seasons turbulence however even during his final 2 seasons with Miami he was only the 3rd best box out guy behind Bam and Olynyk.



TL;DR - Whiteside doesn't box out at alll! Hold up, no one does anymore! Hold up, Whiteside never did. Stay Me700

I can not take any credit for this as i have ripped this poster's hard work from a competing forum.
i found the stats included to be quite interesting/enlightening in both the debate surrounding of eye-test/impact conversation of our current center and why perhaps we perceive a "lazy" version of whiteside from time to time. Securing the rebound as a critical component of the defensive side of the ball, i feel the stats help with the perception of why we look so much worse on that side of the court regularly also. Stott's better versions of team defense have in the past featured strong team rebounders/boxing out, Ed Davis, Robin Lopez Lamarcus, even leonard.... not so much this year

Dropoff in statistics for our team are quite terrifying. But the fact that guys from other teams have dropped off so drastically makes me question whether the definition of a boxout changed or what? I don't think anything in the game has changed that much....

 

[lawai'a]

Wow, another poster in that forum just pointed out that we as a team are dead last in second chance points allowed. Pretty damning of our front courts inability to put a body on anyone after a shot. Gotta be an important factor in our overall poor defensive showing this season. Pretty eye opening

 

[illmatic99]

0
Posted by
u/shaqrandolph
2 hours ago
I'm talking box outs and you're invited.

I was looking through some stats in my spare time, trying to see if the numbers show any sign of what exactly we're missing [other than all our fknnn players] when I came across something pretty disappointing to read; our box out numbers are waaay down.



Let's take a look at the totals up until this point for last season



NAME MINS TOTAL BOX OUTS
Jusuf Nurkic 1647 509
Zach Collins 1035 294
Meyers Leonard 754 238
Al-Farouq Aminu 1765 229


Top 4 from last season above. Jake Layman was next with 68, Kanter had only played 5 games at this point of the season.



Comrades, please journey with me through the numbers for this season

NAME MINS TOTAL BOX OUTS
Hassan Whiteside 1742 154
Carmelo Anthony 1476 115
Anthony Tolliver 554 93
Skal Labissiere 567 89


Top 4 arranged above. The difference a year makes is truly curious. Despite more overall minutes played, Hassan Whiteside has only boxed out 30% of what Nurkic was able to accomplish to this point [3rd March] last year. The loss of Collins has likely magnified this issue but this is finally something quantifiable that paints the other side of Whitesides outstanding stats.



I don't blame Whiteside either as I think it's more of a physically limitation [lack of width and lower half strength] rather than an effort issue. Another factor to consider, is the evolution of the league in general. Houston have fully embraced small ball and other teams have also chosen to anger environmentalists, using stretchy, small ball plastic 5s over recycling possessions with traditional bigs. Lets compare last seasons overall box out leaders at this point with how they're tracking this season:



NAME 2018-19 TBO 2019-20 TBO
LAMARCUS ALDRIDGE 632 290
NIKOLA VUCEVIC 588 269
STEVEN ADAMS 579 275
BAM ADEBAYO 505 364
Numbers are down across the board as shown above. In fact, Adebayo is this years league leader with the 364 he has. Ed Davis and nurkic were top 5 last year but not displayed due to injuries this year.

Does this drop across the board absolve Whiteside of blame? Again I wouldn't blame him for this seasons turbulence however even during his final 2 seasons with Miami he was only the 3rd best box out guy behind Bam and Olynyk.



TL;DR - Whiteside doesn't box out at alll! Hold up, no one does anymore! Hold up, Whiteside never did. Stay Me700

I can not take any credit for this as i have ripped this poster's hard work from a competing forum.
i found the stats included to be quite interesting/enlightening in both the debate surrounding of eye-test/impact conversation of our current center and why perhaps we perceive a "lazy" version of whiteside from time to time. Securing the rebound as a critical component of the defensive side of the ball, i feel the stats help with the perception of why we look so much worse on that side of the court regularly also. Stott's better versions of team defense have in the past featured strong team rebounders/boxing out, Ed Davis, Robin Lopez Lamarcus, even leonard.... not so much this year

matches my eye test. He doesn't win contested rebounds. And he wildly chases blocks leaving his teammates in a poor position to defensive rebound. Can't stand the guy.

Sets shit screens, doesn't sprint off of them to roll, such a waste of his athleticism.

 

[lawai'a]

matches my eye test. He doesn't win contested rebounds. And he wildly chases blocks leaving his teammates in a poor position to defensive rebound. Can't stand the guy.

Sets shit screens, doesn't sprint off of them to roll, such a waste of his athleticism.

Seems maybe some stats that would validate the eye test after all

 

[royo]

Wow, another poster in that forum just pointed out that we as a team are dead last in second chance points allowed. Pretty damning of our front courts inability to put a body on anyone after a shot. Gotta be an important factor in our overall poor defensive showing this season. Pretty eye opening

Not sure if it's about that, but most of Hassan's blocks goin strite in their hands and 1/3 of them go outside for an easy 3 (well, it's always easy 3 against Blazers, init?). So, there is a q: Are Hassan's blocks actually hurting the team?