Nurk vs. Hassan

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Seems we also rank dead last in opponents total rebounds per game and 27th in defensive rebound percentage. Would seem a correlation to second chance points in a rather direct way.
 
lawai'a said:
Seems we also rank dead last in opponents total rebounds per game and 27th in defensive rebound percentage. Would seem a correlation to second chance points in a rather direct way.
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It sounds like you guys are saying that the team sucks at a lot of things they need to be good at.
 
lawai'a said:
Wow, another poster in that forum just pointed out that we as a team are dead last in second chance points allowed. Pretty damning of our front courts inability to put a body on anyone after a shot. Gotta be an important factor in our overall poor defensive showing this season. Pretty eye opening
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Can you provide a link to the post? or link to the data indicating this?
 
tester551 said:
Can you provide a link to the post? or link to the data indicating this?
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Trying to find out where the new forum is, I like it!
 
julius said:
but also linking some of the suck factor to our frontcourt not performing one of the most fundamental of basketball techniques. "to properly box out the opponent, putting yourself in better position to get the ball." the part i quoted is straight from the USA basketball site. does our front court not know how or is it perhaps that it is an effort thing? i can't answer that definitively but can discuss how it relates to my eye test concerning effort.
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I don't remember saying that.
 
royo said:
Not sure if it's about that, but most of Hassan's blocks goin strite in their hands and 1/3 of them go outside for an easy 3 (well, it's always easy 3 against Blazers, init?). So, there is a q: Are Hassan's blocks actually hurting the team?
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This is a very interesting question. I wish I had the time to go through PBP logs to find out how often HW's blocks result in the Blazers obtaining possession, and the opposition's PPP on blocks that they keep.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
This is a very interesting question. I wish I had the time to go through PBP logs to find out how often HW's blocks result in the Blazers obtaining possession, and the opposition's PPP on blocks that they keep.
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but in order to evaluate, you'd need the same data on other rim protectors around the league in order to gauge Whiteside

I'd also think that if the rest of the team, other than the shot-blocker, is bad at rebounding, they are likely going to be bad at retrieving blocked shots. And we know the Blazers other than Whiteside are bad at rebounding

He has his flaws to be sure, but some of these numbers pose more questions than they answer. Whiteside is not a mobile C; that's clear. Lots of slow-twitch in his DNA like Meyers. But his rebounding and blocked shots numbers are real and have a lot more impact than hollow numbers IMO.

all you have to do is look at Portland's opponent FG% at the rim (0-3'), and in the 3-10' zone; compare last season and this season and see that Portland is better this season than they were last season when they had Nurkic, Zach, Kanter, Aminu, and Meyers. Whiteside is pretty much covering that painted area alone, and Portland is better for it. Between last season and this, the Blazers are the same in the 10-16' zone which seems an area that both the bigs and perimeter defenders would work. But they are worse this year in the 16-23' zone and much worse at 3ptFG defense. That fits with the significant downgrade in perimeter defense the roster turnover caused

(edited)
 
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wizenheimer said:
but in order to evaluate, you'd need the same data on other rim protectors around the league in order to gauge Whiteside

I'd also think that if the rest of the team, other than the shot-blocker, is bad at rebounding, they are likely going to be bad at retrieving blocked shots. And we know the Blazers other than Whiteside are bad at rebounding

I think some people here are stretching for things that fits their dislike of Whiteside. He has his flaws to be sure, but some of these numbers pose more questions than they answer. Whiteside is not a mobile C; that's clear. Lots of slow-twitch in his DNA like Meyers. But his rebounding and blocked shots numbers are real and have a lot more impact than hollow numbers IMO.

all you have to do is look at Portland's opponent FG% at the rim (0-3'), and in the 3-10' zone; compare last season and this season and see that Portland is better this season than they were last season when they had Nurkic, Zach, Kanter, Aminu, and Meyers. Whiteside is pretty much covering that painted area alone, and Portland is better for it. Between last season and this, the Blazers are the same in the 10-16' zone which seems an area that both the bigs and perimeter defenders would work. But they are worse this year in the 16-23' zone and much worse at 3ptFG defense. That fits with the significant downgrade in perimeter defense the roster turnover caused
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You're extrapolating intent. Some people just like to see data.
 
wizenheimer said:
but in order to evaluate, you'd need the same data on other rim protectors around the league in order to gauge Whiteside

I'd also think that if the rest of the team, other than the shot-blocker, is bad at rebounding, they are likely going to be bad at retrieving blocked shots. And we know the Blazers other than Whiteside are bad at rebounding

I think some people here are stretching for things that fits their dislike of Whiteside. He has his flaws to be sure, but some of these numbers pose more questions than they answer. Whiteside is not a mobile C; that's clear. Lots of slow-twitch in his DNA like Meyers. But his rebounding and blocked shots numbers are real and have a lot more impact than hollow numbers IMO.

all you have to do is look at Portland's opponent FG% at the rim (0-3'), and in the 3-10' zone; compare last season and this season and see that Portland is better this season than they were last season when they had Nurkic, Zach, Kanter, Aminu, and Meyers. Whiteside is pretty much covering that painted area alone, and Portland is better for it. Between last season and this, the Blazers are the same in the 10-16' zone which seems an area that both the bigs and perimeter defenders would work. But they are worse this year in the 16-23' zone and much worse at 3ptFG defense. That fits with the significant downgrade in perimeter defense the roster turnover caused
Click to expand...
How do those numbers stack up with the lack of boxing out and second chance points? And I agree that melo is a large component if the lack of boxing and second chance points posit is real. The fact that during his tenure in Miami that Olynyk a far more perimeter oriented player boxed out more times than Whiteside is at least an interesting situation. I haven’t verified in relation to time on the court so maybe not as telling as I am now presuming. Still LaMarcus nearly doubling Hassan,s box outs in similar minutes...........goes back to the eye test concerning effort I think
 
wizenheimer said:
"intent"?
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Intent of interest in the data. "I think some people here are stretching for things that fits their dislike of Whiteside." My post to which you replied doesn't fit that description at all. I'm simply curious what impact a blocked shot has on actual scoring.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
Intent of interest in the data. "I think some people here are stretching for things that fits their dislike of Whiteside." My post to which you replied doesn't fit that description at all. I'm simply curious what impact a blocked shot has on actual scoring.
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ok, I see, you're focusing on one sentence out of 15. Well then, I'll delete that one sentence:

wizenheimer said:
but in order to evaluate, you'd need the same data on other rim protectors around the league in order to gauge Whiteside

I'd also think that if the rest of the team, other than the shot-blocker, is bad at rebounding, they are likely going to be bad at retrieving blocked shots. And we know the Blazers other than Whiteside are bad at rebounding

He has his flaws to be sure, but some of these numbers pose more questions than they answer. Whiteside is not a mobile C; that's clear. Lots of slow-twitch in his DNA like Meyers. But his rebounding and blocked shots numbers are real and have a lot more impact than hollow numbers IMO.

all you have to do is look at Portland's opponent FG% at the rim (0-3'), and in the 3-10' zone; compare last season and this season and see that Portland is better this season than they were last season when they had Nurkic, Zach, Kanter, Aminu, and Meyers. Whiteside is pretty much covering that painted area alone, and Portland is better for it. Between last season and this, the Blazers are the same in the 10-16' zone which seems an area that both the bigs and perimeter defenders would work. But they are worse this year in the 16-23' zone and much worse at 3ptFG defense. That fits with the significant downgrade in perimeter defense the roster turnover caused
Click to expand...

ok then, intent removed leaving the rest of my post....I have "interest in data" too. I'm just saying there that sometimes, context is needed in order for the data to make sense and not present a distorted picture

for instance, if the other team scores off of 40% of Whiteside's blocks, that might seem bad and suggest that Whiteside's blocks are overrated. But if the league average for rim protectors is 44%....?
 
wizenheimer said:
ok, I see, you're focusing on one sentence out of 15. Well then, I'll delete that one sentence:



ok then, intent removed leaving the rest of my post....I have "interest in data" too. I'm just saying there that sometimes, context is needed in order for the data to make sense and not present a distorted picture

for instance, if the other team scores off of 40% of Whiteside's blocks, that might seem bad and suggest that Whiteside's blocks are overrated. But if the league average for rim protectors is 44%....?
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Dude, chill. Why not let someone actually form an opinion on data (that hasn't even been culled) before you start telling them which hypothetical opinions may or may not be valid?

Yes, yes, I am new to the internet; thank you for asking.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
Dude, chill. Why not let someone actually form an opinion on data (that hasn't even been culled) before you start telling them which hypothetical opinions may or may not be valid?

Yes, yes, I am new to the internet; thank you for asking.
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wut? how did you get the impression I needed to chill?

I was simply discussing some of the 'data' that others posted....and hypothetical data that hadn't been posted.
 
wizenheimer said:
wut? how did you get the impression I needed to chill?

I was simply discussing some of the 'data' that others posted....and hypothetical data that hadn't been posted.
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Perhaps you and I have different definitions of the term. It's OK.
 
Orion Bailey said:
Nurk helps his team win games. Whiteside does not.
Nothing more to discuss.
Thanks and have a good night.
Dont drive if you have been drinking.
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Bullshit. Nurk is better than Hassan but that doesn’t mean Hassan needs to be shat on. This team would have 0 wins without him.They literally haven't won one game without him.
 
Scalma said:
Bullshit. Nurk is better than Hassan but that doesn’t mean Hassan needs to be shat on. This team would have 0 wins without him.They literally haven't won one game without him.
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you are right. He doesnt deserve to be shat on, but the fact is his stats dont equate to wins. Sure. Sometimes he does enough, but he is out of position more often than not. look at his double doubles. Whats the win percentage? .500%?

Too much money for not enough win% from him for all the stTs he puts up.
 
Orion Bailey said:
you are right. He doesnt deserve to be shat on, but the fact is his stats dont equate to wins. Sure. Sometimes he does enough, but he is out of position more often than not. look at his double doubles. Whats the win percentage? .500%?

Too much money for not enough win% from him for all the stTs he puts up.
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Nonsense. He has as many "wins" as Dame this year. So then Dame's stats don't equate to wins in that bizarre logic. How do you know that if everything else was exactly the same and it was a healthy Nurkic instead of Whiteside, that Portland would have any more wins than they do right now? There's simply no way to determine that. We haven't had to watch Nurkic carry the burden of playing with Melo & Tolliver at PF like Whiteside has

winshares:

Damian Lillard 9.4 Hassan Whiteside 7.9 CJ McCollum 3.5 Gary Trent 1.6 Trevor Ariza 1.4 Skal Labissière 1.4 Rodney Hood 1.1 Carmelo Anthony 0.8 Nassir Little 0.6 Anfernee Simons 0.3

winshares/48:

Damian Lillard .219 Hassan Whiteside .206 Skal Labissière .122 Trevor Ariza .102 Rodney Hood .087 CJ McCollum .079 Gary Trent .073 Nassir Little .051 Mario Hezonja .040 Carmelo Anthony .024 Anfernee Simons .011

BPM:

Damian Lillard 7.3 Hassan Whiteside 3.3 CJ McCollum 0.9 Trevor Ariza -0.3 Rodney Hood -1.0 Gary Trent -1.0 Skal Labissière -1.3 Mario Hezonja -3.1 Carmelo Anthony -4.0 Anfernee Simons -4.3

Wins over replacement:

Damian Lillard 13.23 Hassan Whiteside 6.75 CJ McCollum 4.32Trevor Ariza 0.91 Gary Trent 0.81 Rodney Hood 0.54 Skal Labissière 0.27 Mario Hezonja -0.54 Carmelo Anthony -2.16 Anfernee Simons -2.16
 
I'd like to see us sign kanter this off-season with mle. Let Whiteside go..
 
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