Nurkic and Vonleh

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AFully22 said:
Not in today's NBA, not unless you have 3 legitamite all star level players. Look back at the last 5-8 years and show me a championship team that won it without 3 all star level players on it. And it's only becoming even more that way with players in FA wanting to buddy up on one team, even sacrificing larger salaries to do so.
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So you don't think three of Dame, CJ, Nurk, Vonleh [and Swanigan] could possibly be all-stars in two years? Not even possible?
 
Reep said:
So you don't think three of Dame, CJ, Nurk, Vonleh [and Swanigan] could possibly be all-stars in two years? Not even possible?
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Possible, yes. Likely, hell to the nah. Can't bank on "might be possible" when building a championship team.
 
AFully22 said:
Not in today's NBA, not unless you have 3 legitamite all star level players. Look back at the last 5-8 years and show me a championship team that won it without 3 all star level players on it. And it's only becoming even more that way with players in FA wanting to buddy up on one team, even sacrificing larger salaries to do so.
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I agree. But I thought we were talking about Vonleh. That still leaves 4 other positions. Dame, CJ, an improved Nurk, an improved Vonleh, and an all star SF......... and all of a sudden we become pretty damn close.

That is just one scenario. Bottom line is you can win with a role player like Vonleh if you have 4 other very good players.
 
If Vonleh come back with better shooting and continue with his Rebs. and his defense I have know problems with him our future power foward. I like Harkless but not for my starter though. If we can upgrade that position on our starting lineup and improve our bench then yes I believe we could challenge being in the top 4 in the west next year.
 
AFully22 said:
Possible, yes. Likely, hell to the nah. Can't bank on "might be possible" when building a championship team.
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Other than playing devils advocate (which is fine btw), I am not sure what your point is.

Before the Nurkic trade, the Blazer’s roster was running on 2 ½ cylinders and fumes. The team is now running on 4 cylinders and expensive watered down fuel. For some of us, that is a nice improvement.

This roster is starting to look like a playoff team again. Vonleh is showing signs of being a good fit as a starter on this roster and is a big part of the team’s improvement, and at our weakest position.

Some of us are happy with both the team’s improvement, and Vonleh’s. We have no idea where the ceiling is for this roster, or Vonleh’s. But many of us have high expectations, and hope for the best, a shot at a ring in a season or three. As long as NO can get us into position to have a shot at a ring, anything can happen during a season and the playoffs that might improve our chances to win that ring.

If you do not have high expectations for Vonleh and this roster, then why are you watching the games? If you want a sure thing ring, watching soap operas would be more entertaining for you. Everyone has fancy rings on the soap operas.
 
Trackjack said:
If Vonleh come back with better shooting and continue with his Rebs. and his defense I have know problems with him our future power foward. I like Harkless but not for my starter though. If we can upgrade that position on our starting lineup and improve our bench then yes I believe we could challenge being in the top 4 in the west next year.
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At the very least Vonleh has made an argument for which position we should should use our 1st pick on. (or trade all three picks for)
And that is a SF not a PF like the consensus thought a month ago. At least it is now debatable.
 
oldfisherman said:
Other than playing devils advocate (which is fine btw), I am not sure what your point is.

Before the Nurkic trade, the Blazer’s roster was running on 2 ½ cylinders and fumes. The team is now running on 4 cylinders and expensive watered down fuel. For some of us, that is a nice improvement.

This roster is starting to look like a playoff team again. Vonleh is showing signs of being a good fit as a starter on this roster and is a big part of the team’s improvement, and at our weakest position.

Some of us are happy with both the team’s improvement, and Vonleh’s. We have no idea where the ceiling is for this roster, or Vonleh’s. But many of us have high expectations, and hope for the best, a shot at a ring in a season or three. As long as NO can get us into position to have a shot at a ring, anything can happen during a season and the playoffs that might improve our chances to win that ring.

If you do not have high expectations for Vonleh and this roster, then why are you watching the games? If you want a sure thing ring, watching soap operas would be more entertaining for you. Everyone has fancy rings on the soap operas.
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I have been to or watched every blazer game for the last 6 years. I am just as excited and happy to be watching good basketball again as anyone. My point was just to have a discussion among fellow blazer fans, not shit on any improvements that have been recently made.
 
Pinwheel1 said:
I agree. But I thought we were talking about Vonleh. That still leaves 4 other positions. Dame, CJ, an improved Nurk, an improved Vonleh, and an all star SF......... and all of a sudden we become pretty damn close.

That is just one scenario. Bottom line is you can win with a role player like Vonleh if you have 4 other very good players.
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Your right, I should have worded it better. Of course Vonleh could be a starter on a championship team that consisted of 4 other all stars. I just meant not on this team with what our core pieces are. We would have to see all star level play from Nurk and all star level play from whoever our SF would be. CJ and Dame would also have to be elite. I just don't think all of that happening is even close to likely.
 
AFully22 said:
Your right, I should have worded it better. Of course Vonleh could be a starter on a championship team that consisted of 4 other all stars. I just meant not on this team with what our core pieces are. We would have to see all star level play from Nurk and all star level play from whoever our SF would be. CJ and Dame would also have to be elite. I just don't think all of that happening is even close to likely.
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yeah we would need to get lucky. GS got lucky with a 2nd round pick in Green and a perceived broken down vet in Iguodala. Those two moves changed their fortune around after drafting Steph and Klay. I say keep the core and hope to hell we get lucky in the draft. Then in another year or two get that vet who can elevate us for a short time.
 
Pinwheel1 said:
yeah we would need to get lucky. GS got lucky with a 2nd round pick in Green and a perceived broken down vet in Iguodala. Those two moves changed their fortune around after drafting Steph and Klay. I say keep the core and hope to hell we get lucky in the draft. Then in another year or two get that vet who can elevate us for a short time.
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Now that's something I can get behind.
 
I am not the most optimistic guy in the world. But I believe we are closer to being a contending team than you realize. The talent on all teams is a never ending fluid situation. And our path is heading up.

I am more concerned with teams such as 76ers than the Cavs. By the time we are ready to compete for a ring, the Cavs will be heading down. The King is now 32 years old. Curry and Durant have peaked and will be starting on the backside of their careers. They still have some nice younger pieces, but two of their best player’s careers are going to be heading down.
 
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oldfisherman said:
I am not the most optimistic guy in the world. But I believe we are closer to being a contending team than you realize. The talent on all teams is a never ending fluid situation. And are path is heading up.

I am more concerned with teams such as 76ers than the Cavs. By the time we are ready to compete for a ring, the Cavs will be heading down. The King is now 32 years old. Curry and Durant have peaked and will be starting on the backside of their careers. They still have some nice younger pieces, but two of their best player’s careers are going to be heading down.
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Klay Thompson is only 5 months older than Dame and a post prime 2 time MVP is going to be better than a prime CJ.
 
How are we going to pay for these 4 all star level players and still have a decent bench? I'm not saying I totally disagree but a lot of these teams got lucky with draft picks or had players still on contracts from the older structure. With so many players getting max contracts its going to be very hard not to have a 1-2 roll players in your starting 5
 
Boise Blazer said:
How are we going to pay for these 4 all star level players and still have a decent bench? I'm not saying I totally disagree but a lot of these teams got lucky with draft picks or had players still on contracts from the older structure. With so many players getting max contracts its going to be very hard not to have a 1-2 roll players in your starting 5
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I think that would be the ideal scenario for Adam Silver and the league. I pray to god that's the direction things are headed, but this time of limbo between the two salary caps will last for probably the next 4 years.
 
AFully22 said:
Possible, yes. Likely, hell to the nah. Can't bank on "might be possible" when building a championship team.
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Golden State built a championship team with a 7th pick that was hardly considered a star, 11th pick SG and a second-round forward. It is nice having hindsight, but nobody expected them to gel and become the team they did back when they were 21 and 22.

Don't get me wrong, I agree that building through the draft is great and you have a better chance if you are lucky enough to get a generational player (who's knees aren't made of play-dough). But I think this team could develop into a team that could have a shot. Most of that hope depends on the development of Nurkic (likely) and Vonleh (more hopeful than likely).
 
Reep said:
Golden State built a championship team with a 7th pick that was hardly considered a star, 11th pick SG and a second-round forward. It is nice having hindsight, but nobody expected them to gel and become the team they did back when they were 21 and 22.

Don't get me wrong, I agree that building through the draft is great and you have a better chance if you are lucky enough to get a generational player (who's knees aren't made of play-dough). But I think this team could develop into a team that could have a shot. Most of that hope depends on the development of Nurkic (likely) and Vonleh (more hopeful than likely).
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That's fair.
 
oldfisherman said:
I am not the most optimistic guy in the world. But I believe we are closer to being a contending team than you realize. The talent on all teams is a never ending fluid situation. And our path is heading up.

I am more concerned with teams such as 76ers than the Cavs. By the time we are ready to compete for a ring, the Cavs will be heading down. The King is now 32 years old. Curry and Durant have peaked and will be starting on the backside of their careers. They still have some nice younger pieces, but two of their best player’s careers are going to be heading down.
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Good points, but I think the Warriors are built to contend for a while if they can keep getting development out of their young picks and are able to keep Curry, KD, Klay, and Draymond together.

Cavs could slide, they made some debatable moves this year. Bogut looked good on paper so I guess you can hardly fault them for that.
 
AFully22 said:
Possible, yes. Likely, hell to the nah. Can't bank on "might be possible" when building a championship team.
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no, Vonleh won't be an all star. He doesn't have the flash for it. But he'll be a damn good complement. But, now, Nurk is more than just a "might be possible". He just needs to get some better hands and finish a touch better around the rim with his already decent arsenal of post moves... but he's 22. So it "might be possible" he could help build that championship team.

"might be possible" has to happen for it to be a "okay, he is."
 
This roster currently tied for the #8 spot in the WC (w/tiebreaker) and the youngest roster in the NBA needs improvement?

I can agree with that. Not exactly a big leap.
 
Noah and Moe are good fits for an offense like Stotts uses. Put them in the corners where they're decent enough at hitting the three to draw out their defenders, while Dame, CJ, and Jusuf run pick and roll at the top of the key. If either of the two defenders collapse on Jusuf when he drives to the hole, he passes off and the open player gets a baseline shot or a dunk if they follow their defender to the hole. I know the Lakers are bad defensively but we saw that play work at least three times.

There's also the "Jusuf passes to a baseline cutter from the top of the key" play that could easily become an alley pop to either player. I like that you have basically the same play running from both sides simultaneously which prevents defenders from doubling off of either player.

It's like a starfish.
 
After the most recent election I've decided to get out of the prediction business. I have no idea if Vonleh is on a trajectory to being an awesome starting power forward, or just plain serviceable. So maybe he is and maybe he isn't capable of being a starter on a contender, but if he keeps improving maybe he raises his value to a point where he's an actual asset and not just a liability. Same can be said for Nurkic and a lot of other guys on this roster.

I do know this, that with their cap situation the Blazers need Vonleh and Nurkic to take those leaps if there's to be any hope in the near and medium term.
 
JDC said:
I meant Zach. Great at the rim + pnr defender with enough agility to bounce between both big positions. I'm not super high on his offense, but he looks like he should be at least an efficient pnr shooter/finisher with 3pt range potential.
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nbadraft.net has us taking him with our pick.
 
AFully22 said:
Not in today's NBA, not unless you have 3 legitamite all star level players. Look back at the last 5-8 years and show me a championship team that won it without 3 all star level players on it. And it's only becoming even more that way with players in FA wanting to buddy up on one team, even sacrificing larger salaries to do so.
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Dirk's Mavs. They beat Lebron and his super team.

Now stop coming in here acting like a know-it-all. It's off putting for a rookie...
 
dviss1 said:
Dirk's Mavs. They beat Lebron and his super team.

Now stop coming in here acting like a know-it-all. It's off putting for a rookie...
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Dirks Mavs had an MVP in Dirk, Tyson Chandler, Shawn Marion, Caron Butler, Jason Kid, and Jason Terry...

Forgive me for not abiding by the hierarchy within a fucking online forum. Get over yourself. I was having a discussion on a discussion board, how rookie of me.
 
AFully22 said:
Dirks Mavs had an MVP in Dirk, Tyson Chandler, Shawn Marion, Caron Butler, Jason Kid, and Jason Terry...

Forgive me for not abiding by the hierarchy within a fucking online forum. Get over yourself. I was having a discussion on a discussion board, how rookie of me.
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So you not only just sound like an asshole?
 
This "3 all-stars or gtfo" narrative is such non sense. Would draymond or Klay be all stars if they played for the Kings? Mavs are a good example too. They had Dirk and a bunch of role players, which is completely ok, because role players are almost as important as the stars. That's the beauty of team sports.
 
How about the spurs this season? They have kawhi, and? Who are their other two all stars? Yet they are a threat to win it all. Theyre the model franchise for a reason. You can't rely on a "super team," but if you draft and develop well, you'll always have a chance.
 
AFully22 said:
So you come at someone new who's wanting to have a genuine discussion, call them a rookie and off putting, and I'm the asshole?
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Your "genuine discussion" has a condescending, know-it-all tone to it.
 
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