Obama lied, people died

[andalusian]

They might not have fighter jets, but they do have things that can fly. Pretty sure I saw some footage of helicopters.

And pigeons too. Clever Moorish bastards.

 

[MrJayremmie]

Oh, come on, you can do better than that.

The 100,000 were due to suicides. They gave their lives voluntarily to welcome us to Iraq.

The Iraqi version of Seppuku.

 

[Shooter]

Whoa... what?

The suicide bombers in Iraq killed more civilians than the U.S. Army did.

 

[Denny Crane]

They might not have fighter jets, but they do have things that can fly. Pretty sure I saw some footage of helicopters.

barfo

The French have been hitting their planes and helicopters on the ground with missiles.

 

[Denny Crane]

You guys must have missed all the bombs that went off at mosques, markets, and police stations.

Those IEDs didn't explode only on US vehicles, and the bomb blasts didn't magically miss civilians nearby.

Easily 80% or more of the civilians killed were due to the civil war and militia violence.

I know you like to hate America, but the reality flies in the face of that.

 

[barfo]

The French have been hitting their planes and helicopters on the ground with missiles.

Right, as part of the 'no-fly-zone'. So basically your argument is that we shouldn't have a no fly zone because we have a no fly zone.

barfo

 

[julius]

You guys must have missed all the bombs that went off at mosques, markets, and police stations.

Those IEDs didn't explode only on US vehicles, and the bomb blasts didn't magically miss civilians nearby.

Easily 80% or more of the civilians killed were due to the civil war and militia violence.

I know you like to hate America, but the reality flies in the face of that.

Even if you say that last bit in jest, it is a very poor form to say that about people who just disagree with what you're saying. I thought we had finally gotten over the "why do you hate America" BS a few years ago when people realized disagreeing with someones political views on something doesn't mean they hate American. But I guess you missed that change.

And if you meant it to be funny, use green so we know you're being sarcastic.

 

[Shooter]

Here's an article from Reuters that addresses the massive number of civilian deaths in Iraq due to suicide attacks:

The data from an Interior Ministry official, widely viewed as an indicative but only partial record of violent deaths, showed 1,971 people died from "terrorism" in Iraq in January, slightly up from the previous high of 1,930 deaths in December.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2007/02/01/idUSCOL139006._CH_.2400

Assuming those two months are typical, do the math. It comes out to 23,406 deaths a year. Multiply that figure by any number of years you wish, and you'll start getting an idea of how many Iraqis died at the hands of their own people.

 

[Denny Crane]

Right, as part of the 'no-fly-zone'. So basically your argument is that we shouldn't have a no fly zone because we have a no fly zone.

barfo

The notion of a no fly zone where there are no enemy planes left to attack civilians makes it a paradox. Which is why obama's coalition is falling apart.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

The suicide bombers in Iraq killed more civilians than the U.S. Army did.

smallpox killed more native americans than the military did

 

[Minstrel]

Even if you say that last bit in jest, it is a very poor form to say that about people who just disagree with what you're saying. I thought we had finally gotten over the "why do you hate America" BS a few years ago when people realized disagreeing with someones political views on something doesn't mean they hate American. But I guess you missed that change.

And if you meant it to be funny, use green so we know you're being sarcastic.

Denny's general position over the years has been that if you disagree with the Republicans, you're a traitor (providing aid and comfort to the enemy) or you hate America.

 

[3RA1N1AC]

how many thousands of americans have died in libya so far?

 

[Shooter]

smallpox killed more native americans than the military did

Interesting, but not relevant.

 

[Minstrel]

how many thousands of americans have died in libya so far?

If we round up to the nearest thousand, 1000 have.

 

[Denny Crane]

Denny's general position over the years has been that if you disagree with the Republicans, you're a traitor (providing aid and comfort to the enemy) or you hate America.

I don't agree with republicans on much of anything. Lower taxes.

 

[Minstrel]

I don't agree with republicans on much of anything. Lower taxes.

You spent a lot of time, in BBF days, saying that anyone who disagreed with the President in war time was a traitor, for giving comfort to the enemy. I notice a startling lack of that from you these days, with a new, non-Republican President.

Of course, FOX News also accused anyone who criticized Bush of being a traitor, though were perfectly happy to rip into Clinton during armed conflict in Kosovo and now into Obama. You conservatives have different rules depending on who's in power.

 

[RR7]

Here's an article from Reuters that addresses the massive number of civilian deaths in Iraq due to suicide attacks:



http://www.reuters.com/article/2007/02/01/idUSCOL139006._CH_.2400

Assuming those two months are typical, do the math. It comes out to 23,406 deaths a year. Multiply that figure by any number of years you wish, and you'll start getting an idea of how many Iraqis died at the hands of their own people.

You "assume" that the high is typical?

LaMarcus Aldridge scored a high of 42 points against the Bulls. Assuming this is typical, he has scored 3,124 total points this season. This puts Aldridge at the third most points EVER scored in an NBA season. And still with 11 games to go. Again, assuming this TYPICAL production, he has a really good shot at getting into second place all time.

 

[Shooter]

You "assume" that the high is typical?

Hey, I won't quibble. Reduce both of those monthly figures by 10% and you'd still end up with over 100,000 civilian deaths in 5 years of war.

 

[Denny Crane]

You spent a lot of time, in BBF days, saying that anyone who disagreed with the President in war time was a traitor, for giving comfort to the enemy. I notice a startling lack of that from you these days, with a new, non-Republican President.

Of course, FOX News also accused anyone who criticized Bush of being a traitor, though were perfectly happy to rip into Clinton during armed conflict in Kosovo and now into Obama. You conservatives have different rules depending on who's in power.

I felt, and still do, that opposing the war and making shit up, as was done, did real damage to the war effort and made it last a lot longer than it needed to. The outright hatred spewed by the anti-war left discouraged people from enlisting, encouraged universities to kick ROTC off campuses, and is the kind of propaganda that the Jane Fondas and Tokyo Roses use in psy-ops against our troops.

A not-too-subtle difference between that and urging people to back Bush. But it sure did seem that the left's interest was moreso in damaging Bush's presidency and legacy than in actually being opposed to war. Heck, 10,000 people marched against war in those days, where are they when Obama takes us to war?

And I think Clinton was smart for going to NATO instead of the UN, to do the Kosovo thing. Unlike Bush's strategy which was to go through the UN.

 

[Shooter]

But it sure did seem that the left's interest was more so in damaging Bush's presidency and legacy than in actually being opposed to war. Heck, 10,000 people marched against war in those days, where are they when Obama takes us to war?

Absolutely. The Left is so transparent it's ridiculous. I'll never forget how NOW clammed up and disappeared during the entire Clinton-Lewinsky scandal. It was the classic example of an older man with lots of power taking advantage of a young subordinate female, and yet the feminists didn't say a peep--because Clinton was their man.

 

[RR7]

In the grand scheme of life, that seems like something worth forgetting. Maybe that's just me. But you hold dear to what's important.

 

[MrJayremmie]

So pretty much...

Obama's a shithole for attacking Libya (I agree).

Libya is nothing like Iraq (I agree).

*Insert bias/partisan/narrow minded comment here*

*Insert bias/partisan/narrow minded comment here*

 

[MrJayremmie]

Haha... fuckin' excellent.

 

[maxiep]

You spent a lot of time, in BBF days, saying that anyone who disagreed with the President in war time was a traitor, for giving comfort to the enemy. I notice a startling lack of that from you these days, with a new, non-Republican President.

Of course, FOX News also accused anyone who criticized Bush of being a traitor, though were perfectly happy to rip into Clinton during armed conflict in Kosovo and now into Obama. You conservatives have different rules depending on who's in power.

Denny was on BBF?

 

[maxiep]

I've been really torn about Libya* as well as our actions during this period of regime upheaval in North Africa and the Mid-East. I haven't agreed with much of what the Obama Administration has done, and a lot of it appears confused. Egypt was a strong ally, yet we sided with the demonstrators. Iran is one of our worst enemies, yet we do nothing to support their demonstrators. Libya has been a foe for decades, yet we allow Qaddafi to beat back the rebels before we intervened. And what about Syria? We get a chance to overthrow a truly disruptive force that funds so much of the unrest in Lebanon and the West Bank, and we are mute. It almost seems like we're encouraging democratic change with our allies and turning a blind eye to those that would encourage democracy with our enemies.

All of that being said, I am still a strong believer in the idea of politics stopping at the water's edge. Once a decision is made by our CIC, I believe in getting in line. I would like to have seen Congress get a bit more of a say, but this is our system of government. So, as long as we have Americans risking their lives in a military action, I stand behind our President.

*I should note by bias against Qaddafi. My college roommate and dear friend was on Pan Am 103, so seeing him dead or imprisoned would bring me great relief.

 

[Minstrel]

Denny was on BBF?

Yup. He was an admin there...he left them to create this site.

 

[Denny Crane]

Yup. He was an admin there...he left them to create this site.

I haven't posted there, logged in, or even read any of their forums/posts in 4+ years.

 

[jlprk]

Absolutely. The Left is so transparent it's ridiculous. I'll never forget how NOW clammed up and disappeared during the entire Clinton-Lewinsky scandal. It was the classic example of an older man with lots of power taking advantage of a young subordinate female, and yet the feminists didn't say a peep--because Clinton was their man.

Why do you think the purpose of NOW is to push the religious institution of marriage?

So you think women in their 20s shouldn't be allowed to have affairs with men in their 40s. Should the women go to prison? What is the exact age difference that is wrong? 15 years? 20 years? Exactly what is the number?

Like you, Crandc has criticized completely legal affairs between older men and younger women. Are you her big ally now?

 

[Shooter]

Why do you think the purpose of NOW is to push the religious institution of marriage?

Congratulations! You've managed to entirely miss the point. NOW is in the business of defending womens' rights against the entrenched male establishment, which they perceive as being callous and disrespectful to women. Clinton's treatment of Lewinsky was a classic example of this in almost every way, as I've already outlined. The issue was not his adultery, or the institution of marriage, but the way he took advantage of a much younger and vulnerable woman in the workplace for sexual favors.