Oden and an Insured Contract (1 Viewer)

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PapaG

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Since the topic du jour is Roy's medical retirment, and how his contract is not insured, so PA would have to pay the full tab, it got me thinking how this may apply to Greg Oden.

I think it's quite simple. If Oden's contract falls under the 'uninsurable' category, I don't think he'll see a long contract offer from any team. If his contract can be insured, I expect teams to offer 5-years/$55 million, at least.

Does anybody know how the insurance question is decided by the league? It may play a big role in keeping Oden.
 
amare got 5/100 uninsured

Amare has played in more than 25% of the games in his career, and he's proven to be an elite player over many years.

Offering Oden $55 million uninsured is a hell of a gamble for some teams, and I think it could limit some of his options.
 
amare has missed alot of time as well

and he sucks at defense
 
amare has missed alot of time as well

and he sucks at defense

Are you seriously comparing Stoudamire to Oden? Or are you just arguing to argue? I can't tell. If it's the latter, I'm busy. If it's the former, um, OK.
 
Amare has played in more than 25% of the games in his career, and he's proven to be an elite player over many years.

Offering Oden $55 million uninsured is a hell of a gamble for some teams, and I think it could limit some of his options.
It could very well limit some options but it only takes 1 idiot out there (KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN) to throw a huge deal at Oden. His contract won't be insured but the upside of Oden is quiet tempting and might make some take a gamble. A 15 looks horrible, but sometimes you just gotta take a hit and hope for the best.
 
The league wide insurance covers the top 5 salaries for each team, with teams being able to submit a few more names if they'd like. The provider can exclude up to something like 14-15 of those contracts if they deem the risk of injury to high in relation to the remaining amount left on the contract. So with Oden it's a combo of whether or not he's top 5 on his team in yearly salary, and what the total guaranteed money on the contract ends up being that the insurance company will weight in relation to the risk of other highly paid players going down.
 
The league wide insurance covers the top 5 salaries for each team, with teams being able to submit a few more names if they'd like. The provider can exclude up to something like 14-15 of those contracts if they deem the risk of injury to high in relation to the remaining amount left on the contract. So with Oden it's a combo of whether or not he's top 5 on his team in yearly salary, and what the total guaranteed money on the contract ends up being that the insurance company will weight in relation to the risk of other highly paid players going down.

Thanks. In other words, the more money Oden is offered, the more likely he is to be a top 5 player on his team. Kind of falls in line with what I was thinking.
 
It suggests a balancing act with what teams will offer for sure, if he's looking for a long term deal of say 5 years some teams could offer him 6-7 or so million a year(sort of MLE like money) and not worry about the insurance because he wouldn't project to be in the top 5 salaries for their roster. If he's looking to get as much possible on a per year basis, say 8-10 million a year, then a team can try and restrict the contract length in a way that the total contracts of guys like Roy/Amare are still just so much larger that the provider is willing to take a risk and not add Oden to the exempt list.

An example would be like in Minny, they have 4 guys who will make 4.6mil or more next year and could have between 12-14 mil in capspace (or the equivalent in the pending CBA), If the sign another guy with a starting salary of 7.5mil with the regular raises and keep the guys they're already paying that much too then using the remaining 4.5 mil on Oden and giving him a 5 year deal will keep them from ever worrying about the insurance, with raises that could be a bit over 32mil total. There's a few other teams that can do the same or similar things, some can even offer more like 5-5.5 starting, but Minny was the 1st thing that popped into my head. From the looks of it Boston could offer Oden a full MLE starting salary and he wouldn't be top 5 for at least 2 years, same with the Lakers. Memphis, like Minny, with a resigned Zach is only 1 contract away from being able to do this too.
 
It suggests a balancing act with what teams will offer for sure, if he's looking for a long term deal of say 5 years some teams could offer him 6-7 or so million a year(sort of MLE like money) and not worry about the insurance because he wouldn't project to be in the top 5 salaries for their roster. If he's looking to get as much possible on a per year basis, say 8-10 million a year, then a team can try and restrict the contract length in a way that the total contracts of guys like Roy/Amare are still just so much larger that the provider is willing to take a risk and not add Oden to the exempt list.

An example would be like in Minny, they have 4 guys who will make 4.6mil or more next year and could have between 12-14 mil in capspace (or the equivalent in the pending CBA), If the sign another guy with a starting salary of 7.5mil with the regular raises and keep the guys they're already paying that much too then using the remaining 4.5 mil on Oden and giving him a 5 year deal will keep them from ever worrying about the insurance, with raises that could be a bit over 32mil total. There's a few other teams that can do the same or similar things, some can even offer more like 5-5.5 starting, but Minny was the 1st thing that popped into my head. From the looks of it Boston could offer Oden a full MLE starting salary and he wouldn't be top 5 for at least 2 years, same with the Lakers. Memphis, like Minny, with a resigned Zach is only 1 contract away from being able to do this too.

The full MLE after accepting an $8.8 million Q.O. wouldn't be a bad deal for Oden if it means the team signing him has the contract insured. If he stays healthy, he's a steal, and if he suffers more injuries to the point he can't play anymore, the team gets out from most of the remaining contract.

I think this makes it more likely Greg takes the Q.O., if it is offered, simply because he knows Portland would match a MLE contract this summer.
 
I deleted several posts here. Please stop the personal crap, guys.
 
what it really boils down to is....calculated risk. for new york, it was worth the risk to them to offer amare the uninsurable contract, many other teams were completely turned off by it.

id guess that the same can/will be said when greg reaches FA
 
he has a vagina?

Amare-Stoudemire.jpg
 
Could someone please explain how contracts with Oden work in RFA if he turns down the QO? I thought there was something about his next contract having to be something that exceeds the QO the first year.
 
larry coon salary cap faq

37. What is restricted free agency?

There are two types of free agency: unrestricted and restricted. An unrestricted free agent is free to sign with any other team, and there's nothing the player's original team can do to prevent it. Restricted free agency gives the player's original team the right to keep the player by matching an offer sheet the player signs with another team. This is called the "right of first refusal."

Restricted free agency exists only on a limited basis. It is allowed following the fourth year of rookie "scale" contracts for first round draft picks (see question number 42). It is also allowed for all veteran free agents who have been in the league three or fewer seasons. However, a first round draft pick becomes an unrestricted free agent following his second or third season if his team does not exercise its option to extend the player's rookie scale contract for the next season. All other free agency is limited to unrestricted free agency.

In order to make their free agent a restricted free agent, a team must submit a qualifying offer to the player by June 30. This prevents the team from not offering a contract and waiting to swoop in when the player tries to sign elsewhere. The qualifying offer ensures that the team does not gain the right of first refusal without also offering a contract themselves. The amount of the qualifying offer for players on rookie "scale" contracts is based on the player's draft position (see question number 42). The qualifying offer for all other players must be for 125% of the player's previous salary, or the player's minimum salary (see question number 11) plus $175,000, whichever is greater. The qualifying offer must be for one season. A player can elect to accept his qualifying offer (the qualifying offer must be accepted by March 1) and play the following season under its terms. This is sometimes done in order to become an unrestricted free agent the following summer (see question number 39).

A qualifying offer cannot be accepted after March 1. Teams may place a shorter time limit on their qualifying offer, specifying any date between October 1 and March 1 by which it must be accepted. If the deadline passes and the qualifying offer is neither withdrawn nor accepted, then the player continues to be a restricted free agent. The team and player are also still free to negotiate a new contract after the qualifying offer ends -- the deadline only affects the player's ability to accept the qualifying offer.

Teams may also withdraw an outstanding qualifying offer in which case the player becomes unrestricted. This happened with Toronto and Keon Clark in 2002. The qualifying offer cannot be withdrawn after July 23 without the player's approval.

If the player is coming off the fourth year of his rookie scale contract, then in addition to a qualifying offer, his team can also submit a maximum qualifying offer. A maximum qualifying offer is for six seasons at the maximum salary with 10.5% annual raises. It can contain no options, ETOs or bonuses of any kind, and must be fully guaranteed. When a team submits a maximum qualifying offer (in essence "stepping up" with a maximum contract offer before the player even hits the market), it places a more stringent requirement on other teams' offer sheets (see below).

When another team wants to sign a restricted free agent, it signs the player to an offer sheet, the principal terms of which the original team is given seven days to match. The offer sheet must be for at least two seasons (not including option years). If the player's prior team also submitted a maximum qualifying offer, then the offer sheet must be for at least three seasons (not including option years). If the player's original team exercises its right of first refusal by matching the principal terms of the offer sheet, the player is then under contract to his original team. If the player's original team does not exercise its right of first refusal within seven days, the offer sheet becomes an official contract with the new team.

To summarize, a restricted free agent essentially has four options:

He can accept his prior team's qualifying offer, play for one season, and become a free agent again the following summer.
He can accept his prior team's maximum qualifying offer (if applicable, and if one has been submitted) and play under a long-term contract at the maximum salary.
He can sign an offer sheet with another team, which his prior team is given the opportunity to match.
He can negotiate a new contract with his prior team that is independent of the qualifying offer or maximum qualifying offer.
There are additional restrictions placed on offer sheets for players with one or two years in the league. These restrictions are described in question number 38.

There can be no compensation given to a team in return for their not matching an offer to a restricted free agent. For example, Houston could not sign Golden State's restricted free agent, then send Golden State a draft pick in exchange for their not matching the offer and retaining the player.

If the team matches an offer sheet, they cannot trade the player in a sign-and-trade arrangement (see question number 79).

A signed offer sheet can be rescinded within the seven day waiting period if all three parties (the player and the two teams) agree.
 
Thanks Braniac that clears up most of my questions
 

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