Oden is more important

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"THE" HCP said:
I have seen people type this before. What does this mean in your weird little computer geek world?
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It is short for thistle, meaning the poster made a sharp point.

barfo
 
PapaG said:


Seriously? Roy is in his 4th year in the league, he almost single-handedly revived a moribund franchise, and people like you are killing him for it because he hasn't made Andre Miller comfortable. Expectations are great. Ridiculous expectations are, well, ridiculous.
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Reviving the franchise is one thing, winning championships is another.

I am very thankful to Roy for being the catalyst that revived the franchise and brought the team out of the doldrums. I never mentioned Miller in my post, so get over yourself. I said Roy is going to have to realize that it is going to be much harder for him to be a premier scorer in this league when we are feeding the ball into the post.

Roy is a very good player, but are you ready to put him on the same plain as Kobe or Wade?

You're right, Greg Oden isn't Shaq. He's already a waaaay better defensive player. He probably won't average 30 ppg, but I think it's realistic to think he could average 20ppg in a league filled with guys like Al Jefferson and Mikki Moore starting at center.
 
Rastapopoulos said:
No, Shaq had three. Kobe was along for the ride.

A while ago I was thinking similar thoughts: maybe Roy will turn out to be like Michael Finley for the Mavs. For a while there he carried them (and, to Scottie's chagrin, got voted to the All-Star team ahead of Pippen). Then he became part of "the Big Three", and then was eventually phased out.

Now, I think Roy is better than Finley was. But Finley was pretty good: in the '99/'00 season he averaged just under 23 ppg, over 6 rpg and over 5 apg, all while playing in all 82 games. Oh, and 1.3 steals.
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And Shaq wouldn't have those 3 without Kobe. They were each equally important to winning those titles.

And I agree about Oden for you guys. If you're going to win titles, he has to become a dominant player. He has shown flashes, though he needs to keep his head in the game. He picks up too many fouls, which limits his effectiveness on both ends of the game. If he could stay out of foul trouble and develop some post-up moves, I think he's got a phenomenal future. I can easily see him developing in to the 2nd best center in the West behind Bynum :devilwink: In all seriousness though, he's got potential to be one of the best, but he's got a ways to go before he gets there, and it really starts with him simply being able to stay on the court. If he can do that, he'd have a much greater impact on the game.
 
Rastapopoulos said:
No, Shaq had three. Kobe was along for the ride.

A while ago I was thinking similar thoughts: maybe Roy will turn out to be like Michael Finley for the Mavs. For a while there he carried them (and, to Scottie's chagrin, got voted to the All-Star team ahead of Pippen). Then he became part of "the Big Three", and then was eventually phased out.

Now, I think Roy is better than Finley was. But Finley was pretty good: in the '99/'00 season he averaged just under 23 ppg, over 6 rpg and over 5 apg, all while playing in all 82 games. Oh, and 1.3 steals.
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Kobe had more win shares in the second title run. And during the season other years.
 
huevonkiller said:
Kobe outside his prime with a fringe all-star Spaniard? Yeah that would be a decent team. I guess.....
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Do you actually think Kobe is outside his prime? He may be 31, but he's in the process of one of his best seasons, and he had one of his best seasons last year at 30 too. If you ask me, it almost seems like he's getting better with age.
 
Moo2K4 said:
Do you actually think Kobe is outside his prime? He may be 31, but he's in the process of one of his best seasons, and he had one of his best seasons last year at 30 too. If you ask me, it almost seems like he's getting better with age.
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Hey that's just a compliment to him, if you think about it more Moo.
 
Moo2K4 said:
Do you actually think Kobe is outside his prime? He may be 31, but he's in the process of one of his best seasons, and he had one of his best seasons last year at 30 too. If you ask me, it almost seems like he's getting better with age.
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Jordan was still a pimp at 36. It's not unrealistic.
 
huevonkiller said:
Hey that's just a compliment to him, if you think about it more Moo.
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I'm well aware that it's a huge compliment to Kobe. Shows just how dedicated he is to staying in shape so he doesn't fall off.
 
Perhaps a better title for this thread would have been "Oden is as important" Frankly, I think when both Brandon and Oden are hitting on all cylinders (if they ever get there) will be two players who command double teams, sprinkle a little LaMarcus borderline all-star, borderline dominant in there and there's the potential for there being very little that could stop them.

I guess I don't quite see Brandon dominating the ball, being as detrimental to Oden's development as some here are seeing. Oden's rookie shot attempts and other offensive stats are nearly identical (save for him being much more polished in the post and hitting a higher % of his shots) even with Miller on the team. The real trick is whether or not Brandon is going to continue to look for Oden early and often to get him firmly established which should in turn free him up for his mid-range game and even the occasional cut through the lane to receive an Oden pass.

I think we're going to find out pretty quickly if this "Roy back in command" thing is going to work based on the way teams play him defensively. If we see the same steady diet of traps and double teams that put him out of sorts earlier and Oden gets marginalized and we return to our mostly jump shooting ways then I hope Roy has the humility to realize that he maybe doesn't always know best. If it ends up working out and Oden stays involved and continues to grow on offense then so be it.

Roy's the star, he's the franchise player, I guess he's at least earned the right to get his way for a little while. I'll withhold judgement for now.
 
Natebishop3 said:
In our system, I do not see how it will be possible for Roy to continue to put up 23-25 ppg if we are going to develop Oden as an offensive weapon. We've got Aldridge who could be a 20+ ppg scorer.

I just get this feeling that Roy is clinging to his hopes of being one of, if not, the best players in the NBA. He constantly brings up the LeBrons and the Kobes. Roy is going to have to make a choice. Kobe had to make the same decision not too long ago. Either he is going to try to win scoring titles and MVP's, or he's going to sacrifice numbers and try to win championships.

Greg Oden is more important than Brandon Roy. Oden has shown what he's capable of. I think he can be an unstoppable post presence. Just look at how much he's improved in the last year. Think how much better he'll be next year? If Oden can become a dominant post presence, he will be the catalyst of a championship (or many championships).

How many championships does LeBron have? How many did Kobe get before he added Gasol? How many does Wade have without Shaq? Someone should remind Roy that wing players don't win championships by themselves.
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Like I posted in another thread. I worried that this issue between Miller and Roy not being able to work may have took too much attention away from the real issue, which is developing Oden's offense. So far, everything he does when he's in the paint puts up huge positives. I think the coaching staff had to do something about the current issue and start using Oden more, even with his fouls.
 
Nikolokolus said:
Perhaps a better title for this thread would have been "Oden is as important" Frankly, I think when both Brandon and Oden are hitting on all cylinders (if they ever get there) will be two players who command double teams, sprinkle a little LaMarcus borderline all-star, borderline dominant in there and there's the potential for there being very little that could stop them.

I guess I don't quite see Brandon dominating the ball, being as detrimental to Oden's development as some here are seeing. Oden's rookie shot attempts and other offensive stats are nearly identical (save for him being much more polished in the post and hitting a higher % of his shots) even with Miller on the team. The real trick is whether or not Brandon is going to continue to look for Oden early and often to get him firmly established which should in turn free him up for his mid-range game and even the occasional cut through the lane to receive an Oden pass.

I think we're going to find out pretty quickly if this "Roy back in command" thing is going to work based on the way teams play him defensively. If we see the same steady diet of traps and double teams that put him out of sorts earlier and Oden gets marginalized and we return to our mostly jump shooting ways then I hope Roy has the humility to realize that he maybe doesn't always know best. If it ends up working out and Oden stays involved and continues to grow on offense then so be it.

Roy's the star, he's the franchise player, I guess he's at least earned the right to get his way for a little while. I'll withhold judgement for now.
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I think this is very well said. My greatest hope is that Roy and Oden start clicking like the great wing/center combos of yore. Interestingly, - well to me anyways - Oden is an Aquarius (like Jordan) and Roy is a Leo (like Kobe). Leo and Aquarius are opposition signs to one another. That relationship can mean one of two things: Either they have real difficulty understanding one another (seems to be the case thus far) or they will work together brilliantly as the Air (Aquarius Fixed Air) will intensify the Fire (Leo fixed fire). I truly believe that at some point this season Roy and Oden will really click. When that happens the league is in trouble.

I've met Roy in person and spoke with him briefly. He seemed like a genuinely nice guy who was very real. He also radiated greatness like no one I have ever met before (I've met a few rich and famous folks over the years). He seemed like a super nice guy.

However, I don't think this rules out being young and wanting to be the brightest star (apparent selfishness, a common Leo trait especially when young). I hope and believe that Roy will truly become a great, not just good, leader and will find that getting Oden established makes him look even better and opens up lanes for him. I just hope Roy figures this out sooner rather then later. He had some great dishes to Oden the other night, but needs to start seeing Oden when he is on the block with one foot in the paint (60+% FG%!!!!).

I for one hope that Roy matures into being the best he can be, that means making everyone better even if it doesn't show up on the stat sheet.
 
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I think we need a Tarot card reading for those two to really get a handle on them, Idog1976 ;)
 
Well, JP Morgan (arguably the richest American of all time inflation adjusted) once said:

"Millionaires don't use Astrology...Billionaires DO."

Farmers Almanac is heavily based on Astrology. Interestingly, Vedic Astrology in India is so well respected and yields such incredible results that virtually every major Indian investor and company has a few astrologers on staff as an additional way to analyze the market. India also has the most Billionaires in the world and had virtually none 20 years ago. Just saying ;)

P.S. Oden should truly come into form starting in mid-November 2010 :D
 
Idog1976 said:
Farmers Almanac is heavily based on Astrology. Interestingly, Vedic Astrology in India is so well respected and yields such incredible results that virtually every major Indian investor and company has a few astrologers on staff as an additional way to analyze the market. India also has the most Billionaires in the world and had virtually none 20 years ago. Just saying ;)
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So astrology didn't work up until 20 years ago?

barfo
 
Idog1976 said:
India also has the most Billionaires in the world and had virtually none 20 years ago. Just saying ;)
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They also have 1/6th of the world's population and a huge number of people living in poverty.
 
#1 concern needs to be Oden

the sooner he can establish he can score in the paint at will and control his fouling, the sooner the Blazers will dominate the game. So basically I am saying fuk Miller vs. Blake. until I see all the focus is on Oden's development. Until I feel comfortable that Oden isn't a foul waiting to happen and can execute a 30-35 minute game average, he needs to be the #1 priority.

There is no excuse that Nate is putting more effort on managing the minutes between role players, instead of focusing more on getting Oden the ball. I challenge Nate and Roy (Obvious leaders of this team) to take it upon themselves to make DAMN SURE Oden develops and gets the ball. 7 shots a game from a franchise center is embarrassing. Some maybe his fault, others maybe the guards not giving him the ball, or it could be even Nate not having too many plays to get Oden the ball. Whatever the reason is, FEED THE FUCKING BEAST!

I want Roy, Aldridge and Oden to all work as one unit. I would love watching a pick and pop, with Aldridge tossing into the paint, in the act of shooting to Oden. The defender will never leave Aldridge 100% wide-open from 20 ft. or Oden will get the timing down to be in the best possible position to get the offensive board on that play.

I would love to see plays getting broken down, trying to get the ball out of Roy's hand, and everyone already knowing to feed the Beast and punish them playing to closely on Roy.
 
barfo said:
So astrology didn't work up until 20 years ago?

barfo
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More like there were not the structural economic developments in place to allow for growth until around 20 years ago. Now that they have the structural things in order they were able to take advantage of the additional information Astrology offered. I really don't care if ya'll believe me or not. Just giving you information.
 
Re: #1 concern needs to be Oden

magnifier661 said:
the sooner he can establish he can score in the paint at will and control his fouling, the sooner the Blazers will dominate the game. So basically I am saying fuk Miller vs. Blake. until I see all the focus is on Oden's development. Until I feel comfortable that Oden isn't a foul waiting to happen and can execute a 30-35 minute game average, he needs to be the #1 priority.

There is no excuse that Nate is putting more effort on managing the minutes between role players, instead of focusing more on getting Oden the ball. I challenge Nate and Roy (Obvious leaders of this team) to take it upon themselves to make DAMN SURE Oden develops and gets the ball. 7 shots a game from a franchise center is embarrassing. Some maybe his fault, others maybe the guards not giving him the ball, or it could be even Nate not having too many plays to get Oden the ball. Whatever the reason is, FEED THE FUCKING BEAST!

I want Roy, Aldridge and Oden to all work as one unit. I would love watching a pick and pop, with Aldridge tossing into the paint, in the act of shooting to Oden. The defender will never leave Aldridge 100% wide-open from 20 ft. or Oden will get the timing down to be in the best possible position to get the offensive board on that play.

I would love to see plays getting broken down, trying to get the ball out of Roy's hand, and everyone already knowing to feed the Beast and punish them playing to closely on Roy.
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Totally agree with this. Too much emphasis and effort put in to pleasing Roy and delegating minutes to roleplayers. Keeping roleplayers happy <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Oden developing.
 
The team needs Oden to be great to win a title. But they are still going to need Roy.

Oden can't create his own shot. Roy can. When the offense completely breaks down you need a guy who can make something happen.

Roy is that guy.

The team needs both (plus LMA) to play at a very high level to win a title. If that doesn't happen then any thoughts of Portland being a contender are out the window.
 
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