Off season philosophy

[The Dude]

This may have been discussed before, if so The Dude is deeply sorry.

Everyone seems to have such differing opinions on what to do this summer, I thought I would ask what, in your opinion, is the best route.

Please don't get hung up on the names of the players I use, they are only there for examples.

Is it better to...

A. Blow the cap space on a Free Agent like Pekovic, or a lopsided trade for a player like Jordan. We may or may not keep our lottery pick in this example, and would have little to no money to sign anyone else.

Pros- The upgrade at center might be better than other options, and it really isn't a 1 year process.

Cons- Our bench will be poor again.


B. Sign 2-3 Free Agents like Blatche, Dalembert, Redick, Evans, while keeping our lottery pick.

Pros- Probably overall a deeper team, but with less "star power"

Cons- Probably a deeper team but with less "star power"


C. Trade for a player like Gortat, losing our pick and probably a player. Still leaving enough money to sign 1 impact Free Agent two less impactful Free Agents.

Pros- Probably gives us the most bang for our buck

Cons- You win in this league with star players, and we wouldn't be adding any.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

I personally would go for C; it gets us a decent center who had offensive and defensive tools back in the day to teach Meyers Lynyrd (wanna give him one more year at least). Gortat's still starter quality, but won't be expected to start all three or so years. I'd then try to sign one impactful bench player like Nate Robinson or something. If there's no nibbles on Hickson, I'd put in an offer for him, and if he's willing to play off the bench for us, he'll sign.

 

[Boise Blazer]

I personally would go for C; it gets us a decent center who had offensive and defensive tools back in the day to teach Meyers Lynyrd (wanna give him one more year at least). Gortat's still starter quality, but won't be expected to start all three or so years. I'd then try to sign one impactful bench player like Nate Robinson or something. If there's no nibbles on Hickson, I'd put in an offer for him, and if he's willing to play off the bench for us, he'll sign.

I really think that unless something crazy happens or PA decides to go for broke the big goal is to be a solid playoff team next year since we have very little chance of being a serious title contender. I want a team that can at least get out of the 1st round for experience and motivation. Option C seems to do that the best. And its funny you mentioned Nate Robinson because there have been times when that guy running his mouth have really bugged the crap out of me but his ability to Vinny Johnson the game if you will has really grown on me.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Honestly, for me it depends on what kind of player is available with our pick. If Shabazz, Porter, or Oladipo somehow drops to us, then I go with option B. If the top wings are gone and BPA is a 5, then I'd prefer option C.

If an all-star-caliber player were available for option A, then I think that's probably the best option, but I don't see a scenario which brings an all-star to Portland.

 

[Blazinaway]

The Olshey comments of the defensive C being a high priority has been discussed a ton, my take on that is frankly there are no really good choices - the options there are all flawed and depending upon one's view perhaps seriously flawed. So for me all the possibilities for us likely stem from what Olshey can and will do on the C front, and frankly I am confused on that as well. My personal hope is that Asik becomes available because Howard goes to HOU - that would be my best case number one "realistic" option.

 

[magnifier661]

I personally would go for C; it gets us a decent center who had offensive and defensive tools back in the day to teach Meyers Lynyrd (wanna give him one more year at least). Gortat's still starter quality, but won't be expected to start all three or so years. I'd then try to sign one impactful bench player like Nate Robinson or something. If there's no nibbles on Hickson, I'd put in an offer for him, and if he's willing to play off the bench for us, he'll sign.

I agree that gortat would work if we really hope that Leonard will be that center. It's been discussed and mostly agreed that Leonard is at least another two years away. Gortat can start for two years and then slide to back up when Leonard is ready to start.

The advantage of gortat is we will still have room to offer a player like redick. The question is "what would Phoenix want for Gortat?"

 

[Rastapopoulos]

I think Olshey should be thinking: we've got a solid supporting cast, but we need a star, and working his way to that. This would probably mean treading water for next season, which would turn me off basketball, but it makes the most sense.

Last year the "gettable" star was Harden. Probably this year, it's Chris Paul, but that's not much good for us because he wouldn't come to Portland and he wouldn't work with Lillard. So I think the plan should be for next year. And probably the star will be someone who's just emerging now - like John Wall, only not John Wall.

(I think the offer for Hibbert was Olshey's shot at building round Aldridge, and it would've made us very good. Or at least, good enough to break our record streak of not winning a playoff series. But now I think that window's passed.)

(If Batum had Lillard's drive, we'd already have our star. But he doesn't.)

EMPHATIC NO to Gortat, Jordan, McGee, Jermaine O'Neal, Blatche, Dalembert.
Meh to Pekovic.
Yes please to somebody young and exciting with star potential. Who, of course, will be practically impossible to get (Harden situations are very rare). Indiana will be faced with a dilemma with Paul George soon - of course they'll give him the max, but that'll mean they have to cut back somewhere. No doubt they'll want to unload Danny Granger, but he was always overrated and now he's an injury wreck. I like the chances of Eric Bledsoe blossoming, but most people think he won't work with Lillard, and it's admittedly not ideal. Derek Favors could blow up, or he could become the next Amir Johnson.

 

[e_blazer]

I'm not convinced that C is the spot that Olshey will be looking to blow his cap space. The guys who are "get-able" really aren't needle movers and aren't likely, IMHO, to bring any more to the table than what Leonard can in a couple of years. Along the lines of what Rastapopoulos was saying, I think that getting another proven star, probably at a wing spot, and just picking up a veteran fill-in at C may be the way to go.

 

[OregonHuskerMan]

Not much a philosophy, but this is what I've come up with as "ideal"

Trade Batum for Nicola Pekovic (resigned) *2 mill difference, most likely*

Sign Tyreke Evans. *8 mill*

Draft Shabazz. OR trade the pick for starting SF and sign Matt Barnes.

Lillard/Wes/Barnes/Aldridge/Pekovic

Evans/Shabazz/Claver/Meyers

Edit - Forgot about Giannis. I would be interested in him also, instead of Shabazz.
Barnes buys time for Shab to become our starting SF. Pekovic/Meyers COULD be a nice C duo going forward, dependent on Meyers development. Banging with Pek in practice can only help him get more physical though. Evans can play backup PG/SG, giving us a multi dimensional 6th man off the bench. Claver is going to be a solid 3 or stretch 4.

 

[magnifier661]

Not much a philosophy, but this is what I've come up with as "ideal"

Trade Batum for Nicola Pekovic (resigned) *2 mill difference, most likely*

Sign Tyreke Evans. *8 mill*

Draft Shabazz. OR trade the pick for starting SF and sign Matt Barnes.

Lillard/Wes/Barnes/Aldridge/Pekovic

Evans/Shabazz/Claver/Meyers

Barnes buys time for Shab to become our starting SF. Pekovic/Meyers COULD be a nice C duo going forward, dependent on Meyers development. Banging with Pek in practice can only help him get more physical though. Evans can play backup PG/SG, giving us a multi dimensional 6th man off the bench. Claver is going to be a solid 3 or stretch 4.

Hmmm not bad at all. Although I am still concerned with Pek and his lack of protecting the paint.

 

[OregonHuskerMan]

Hmmm not bad at all. Although I am still concerned with Pek and his lack of protecting the paint.

Me too. But, I don't think there is going to be a truly available center that really fits exactly what we want. And I know Minnesota is interested in Batum... So they are more likely to accept Batum for Pek, which they would then use there draft pick on a center in the draft. They also wouldn't have to resign Budinger and could try to get a piece like Mayo, Redick, or something along those lines. I also think Shabazz has the most potential to be an elite player/scorer out of this draft class, outside of maybe Len or Mclemore. Has a great wingspan and great size. Just have to find the right setting for him, IMO, as he will need some veteran presence to guide his "effort". I don' think LMA, or more importantly Lillard, would take kindly to him slacking.

I also added Giannis A. into a possibility. Let Barnes start ahead of him and hope he develops - he is fairly new to the game, but has incredible size, length, and can handle the ball decently well and has great potential on D. Probably won't be the scorer, but at this point, I'd rather offload Batum's contract for a center and try to replace Batum. He is just too passive for this team and shoots a lot of 3s. At this point I'd rather just rid the hope of Batum "getting" it and try something new, especially if we can essentially turn Batum into a starting C, 6th man, and we could instantly fill his position with quality (although unproven) talent. And SF is a loaded position.

 

[KingSpeed]

Tis better to sign players to strengthen our bench over mediocre centers like Jordan and Pekovic. They're not stars anyway. If we want to throw all our money at a center, I think we throw it at the best center in the league: Andrew Bynum.

 

[magnifier661]

Me too. But, I don't think there is going to be a truly available center that really fits exactly what we want. And I know Minnesota is interested in Batum... So they are more likely to accept Batum for Pek, which they would then use there draft pick on a center in the draft. They also wouldn't have to resign Budinger and could try to get a piece like Mayo, Redick, or something along those lines. I also think Shabazz has the most potential to be an elite player/scorer out of this draft class, outside of maybe Len or Mclemore. Has a great wingspan and great size. Just have to find the right setting for him, IMO, as he will need some veteran presence to guide his "effort". I don' think LMA, or more importantly Lillard, would take kindly to him slacking.

I also added Giannis A. into a possibility. Let Barnes start ahead of him and hope he develops - he is fairly new to the game, but has incredible size, length, and can handle the ball decently well and has great potential on D. Probably won't be the scorer, but at this point, I'd rather offload Batum's contract for a center and try to replace Batum. He is just too passive for this team and shoots a lot of 3s. At this point I'd rather just rid the hope of Batum "getting" it and try something new, especially if we can essentially turn Batum into a starting C, 6th man, and we could instantly fill his position with quality (although unproven) talent. And SF is a loaded position.

Wouldn't Jefferson be a better catch then? I think he is that same caliber center and I suspect he would be in the 9-10 mil range. I have a feeling Pek is getting 12 mil. I would be a little upset if we paid him that much.

 

[OregonHuskerMan]

Wouldn't Jefferson be a better catch then? I think he is that same caliber center and I suspect he would be in the 9-10 mil range. I have a feeling Pek is getting 12 mil. I would be a little upset if we paid him that much.

If Utah was willing to S/T him for Batum, sure. Jefferson is also probably worse defensively than Pek. (Haven't looked at the numbers). I also get more of a "team" vibe from Pek, than Al Jeff, but I could easily be wrong. I wouldn't mind slightly overpaying Pek, just because we are already overpaying Batum, who is more easily replaced than a starting C.

I wouldn't mind Batum for DeAndre, either. Paul/Billups?/Batum/Griffin/?? isn't half bad considering they didn't play DJ that much anyway, I couldn't see them asking a lot for him. And I'm sure they'll trade to trade Bledsoe for another big man, also. Deandre is young, which fits in with Lillard more than Pek/Jefferson.

 

[magnifier661]

If Utah was willing to S/T him for Batum, sure. Jefferson is also probably worse defensively than Pek. (Haven't looked at the numbers). I also get more of a "team" vibe from Pek, than Al Jeff, but I could easily be wrong. I wouldn't mind slightly overpaying Pek, just because we are already overpaying Batum, who is more easily replaced than a starting C.

I wouldn't mind Batum for DeAndre, either. Paul/Billups?/Batum/Griffin/?? isn't half bad considering they didn't play DJ that much anyway, I couldn't see them asking a lot for him. And I'm sure they'll trade to trade Bledsoe for another big man, also. Deandre is young, which fits in with Lillard more than Pek/Jefferson.

I really hope we don't grab DeAndre. I think we will be disappointed.

 

[KingSpeed]

Jordan sucks, guys. We don't want him. Trust me.

 

[OregonHuskerMan]

I really hope we don't grab DeAndre. I think we will be disappointed.

I think his age is the most appropriate for our team. Same age as Batum. EXCEPT, that I think, DeAndre plays a position that is harder to fill and I think that DeAndre could easily improve his rebounding and potentially get his FT shooting up to snuff in the next 2 years or so. Also, over that time (HOPEFULLY) Leonard develops enough to where if we werein that situation where the opposing team was doing a hack-a-jordan, we could insert Meyers and lose a little bit defensively and gain something offensively (Better shooting, FT%). I doubt Meyers will ever be as good defensively as DeAndre, rebounding, rotations, positioning or otherwise. But Deandre will never be as good as Meyers shooting the ball, but that isn't what we need for this team.

 

[RR7]

I really hope we don't grab DeAndre. I think we will be disappointed.

I wouldn't mind getting him, and think he would be a help defensively, and what we're looking for offensively. A garbage man big, asked to crash the boards and run PnR a little, like JJ.
What about a 3 way deal,
LAC In: Garnett, #40
LAC out: Jordan, #25

Boston In: #10, #25, Freeland $12 TPE
Boston Out: KG, maybe something else small, Jordan Crawford?

Portland In: Jordan, Crawford
Portland Out: #10, #40, Freeland

KG might just say no and retire. So be it. But they add a vet that won't complain about role like Jordan did, and motivation for Paul to stick around. They give up Jordan and 25 to upgrade to KG.
Boston decides to re-set. Depending on how long Rondo is out, and if Pierce opts out, they add a lotto pick to start a rebuild, tank for 2014 draft and free agency.
We add starting C and a 6th man in Crawford(or other small piece from Boston). Maybe 25 goes to them as well, 10 for KG, 25 for Crawford. We facilitate them getting a TPE, and LAC geting Jordan with our cap space, agreed to on draft night.

 

[OregonHuskerMan]

Hell no to Jordan Crawford. No, no, no.

 

[magnifier661]

I wouldn't mind getting him, and think he would be a help defensively, and what we're looking for offensively. A garbage man big, asked to crash the boards and run PnR a little, like JJ.
What about a 3 way deal,
LAC In: Garnett, #40
LAC out: Jordan, #25

Boston In: #10, #25, Freeland $12 TPE
Boston Out: KG, maybe something else small, Jordan Crawford?

Portland In: Jordan, Crawford
Portland Out: #10, #40, Freeland

KG might just say no and retire. So be it. But they add a vet that won't complain about role like Jordan did, and motivation for Paul to stick around. They give up Jordan and 25 to upgrade to KG.
Boston decides to re-set. Depending on how long Rondo is out, and if Pierce opts out, they add a lotto pick to start a rebuild, tank for 2014 draft and free agency.
We add starting C and a 6th man in Crawford(or other small piece from Boston). Maybe 25 goes to them as well, 10 for KG, 25 for Crawford. We facilitate them getting a TPE, and LAC geting Jordan with our cap space, agreed to on draft night.

Crawford again? Man I don't think so. Now if we could do a sign and trade for Barnes and Jordan; I would be truly open to it.

 

[RR7]

Crawford again? Man I don't think so. Now if we could do a sign and trade for Barnes and Jordan; I would be truly open to it.

not Jamal, Jordan Crawford. Just someone to provide instant offense off the bench.

 

[magnifier661]

not Jamal, Jordan Crawford. Just someone to provide instant offense off the bench.

ahhhhh okay... Well I was onboard with trying to grab Jordan Crawford earlier this season and I don't think I've changed my mind. Still Jordan is such a liability in the fourth because of his awful FT %. But, maybe it would work because we could use a "stretch 4" 4th quarter rotation.

 

[OregonHuskerMan]

ahhhhh okay... Well I was onboard with trying to grab Jordan Crawford earlier this season and I don't think I've changed my mind. Still Jordan is such a liability in the fourth because of his awful FT %. But, maybe it would work because we could use a "stretch 4" 4th quarter rotation.

I just pray that Meyers develops enough that we can throw him in there at the end of closer games for his FT ability and not risk him playing awful defense and missing an assignment.

Jordan Crawford struggled for the most player friendly coach in Doc Rivers, I don't really care much for him. When he gets hot, its great. But he shoots like 40% which isn't optimal IMO.

 

[KeepOnRollin]

Ok so I just looked up DeAndre Jordan's stats so far in the Playoffs.

Game 1: 3 pts, 8 rbs, 0 blks in 30 mins.
Game 2: 4 pts, 8 rbs, 4 blks in 24 mins.
Game 3: 2 pts, 8 rbs, 3 blks in 25 mins.
Game 4: 2 pts, 2 rbs, 1 blk in 17 mins.
Game 5: 6 pts, 4 rbs, 2 blks in 31 mins.

Yes, there is a big man tax but this is outrageous. Those numbers don't impress me at all. I know his D is the main draw but that hasn't jumped out at me enough to make up for the stats.

I posted the above in the Playoffs thread almost a week ago.

To complete it, in DeAndre Jordan's last game of the Playoffs he did the following...
Game 6: 5 pts, 4 rbs, 0 blks in 17 mins.

 

[OregonHuskerMan]

I posted the above in the Playoffs thread almost a week ago.

To complete it, in DeAndre Jordan's last game of the Playoffs he did the following...
Game 6: 5 pts, 4 rbs, 0 blks in 17 mins.

Points are irrelevant. He averaged like 4 shots a game, dude. He is not part of LAC offense, at all.

So, averaging 6 rebounds and 2 blocks in 22/mins is bad? Against the best front court in the league (and Blake Griffin was injured, as well) and they tried going small to counter the front court size?

I guess I just don't see the issue.

 

[KeepOnRollin]

Points are irrelevant. He averaged like 4 shots a game, dude. He is not part of LAC offense, at all.

So, averaging 6 rebounds and 2 blocks in 22/mins is bad? Against the best front court in the league (and Blake Griffin was injured, as well) and they tried going small to counter the front court size?

I guess I just don't see the issue.

His averages were as follows:
3.67 points per game, 5.67 rebounds per game, 1.67 blocks per game, 24 minutes per game.

So you are averaging up on numbers and down on minutes. I do think those are low even for the given minutes.

But moreso then averages is the money that he makes which makes me look at other alternatives first. If our future Center (whoever you want to name him to be) only had those numbers people would be calling for his head.

 

[The Dude]

It's possible that Neil Olshey sticks to what he said and just get's the best player available regardless of position

 

[magnifier661]

It's possible that Neil Olshey sticks to what he said and just get's the best player available regardless of position

If that's the case, then Jordan is absolutely not "The best player available"

 

[JfizzleBlazer]

It's possible that Neil Olshey sticks to what he said and just get's the best player available regardless of position

I believe this is what he does. No sense in overpaying for a McGee, gortat or Jordan. This team needs talent all around. get a stop gap and c and as much talent as possible elsewhere

 

[magnifier661]

I believe this is what he does. No sense in overpaying for a McGee, gortat or Jordan. This team needs talent all around. get a stop gap and c and as much talent as possible elsewhere

Gortat is hardly overpaying. I think he makes only 8 mil next season. That's cheap for a starting center.