Official 2013 Draft thread (2 Viewers)

[Pinwheel1]

All the more reason to acquire players who are just naturally good at it.

That is certainly not bad idea. Are we still talking SG? Who did you have in mind? Pope? He does look decent at it. Although I would not necessarily count Shabazz out of that discussion.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

That is certainly not bad idea. Are we still talking SG? Who did you have in mind? Pope? He does look decent at it. Although I would not necessarily count Shabazz out of that discussion.

To be honest, I don't know why we're even considering a SG. I think we have much more glaring needs at C and even backup PG. Wesley's not the greatest SG but he's actually very important to the team (a la Tony Allen) and I'd be happy to see Will Barton get more minutes (not to mention Batum or Lillard at SG).

 

[Boise Blazer]

James Ham ‏@James_Ham 27m
Shabazz Muhammad will be in Sacramento for a second look on Saturday and C.J. McCollum on Monday.

 

[blue9]

I hear what you're saying, Rasta. I'm typically a big proponent of defense. But to me, defense has GOT to come first from coaching. A good defensive coach can take average players and still get good defensive results - outside of Duncan/Leonard the Spurs players are fairly average, but Pops makes them look like champions. Conversely, a team full of good individual defenders with a poor structure to work within will never be a great defensive team. No matter who we have on the roster we won't be a great defensive team until we get a coach who understands the nuances of team defense. Sure, a defensive-minded C will help, but it won't transform the team.
Given that I would rather try to find the best player at a position that typically dominates the league (SG). Right now there's Harden (and maybe Wade) and then a precipitous drop-off in talent. If a SG in this draft has any potential at developing into a dominant player then that'll be very valuable considering the absolute lack of SG talent in the league. By comparison there is a HUGE amount of C talent in the league.
Back to defense - given Shabazz's size and wingspan I think he has far more potential to be a better defender than Pope. But we also have a good defensive SG in Wes. And on the offensive end he can work in the post - something our PF is unwilling to do.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

My happy draft dream: Greek to DAL for 13, 10 traded to ATL for 17 & 18, draft Schroeder, Ledo, and Dieng.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

If a SG in this draft has any potential at developing into a dominant player then that'll be very valuable considering the absolute lack of SG talent in the league. By comparison there is a HUGE amount of C talent in the league.

I don't get what you're saying. Why would having a good SG help the BLAZERS "dominate the league"? Harden's Rockets didn't do all that much. Not as much as teams with players like Danny Green or Tony Allen starting at SG. What matters is the team. All it means if we have the third best SG in a shitty period for SGs is that he's likely to demand to be overpaid.

A "huge amount of C talent"!? That's just false. I remember a time with Olajuwon, Robinson, Ewing, Shaq. They're all better than ANY center in the league now. However, the most important player on defense is the center. That doesn't mean you can't win without one (see Jordan Bulls, current Heat) but you better have all-world perimeter defenders if not. And oh, the Jordan Bulls and current Heat did and do. We don't.

Agree that it's not enough: we need a good defensive coach. But the best defensive coach in the world isn't going to do squat with Meyers Leonard or JJ Hickson. Except bench them.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

My happy draft dream: Greek to DAL for 13, 10 traded to ATL for 17 & 18, draft Schroeder, Ledo, and Dieng.

Substitute Crabbe for Ledo and I agree. Oh, and substitute "pick to be named later" for Kostas Papanikolaou, because I think he could be special, in a "cult fave" kind of way.

 

[Pinwheel1]

However, the most important player on defense is the center.

Agree that it's not enough: we need a good defensive coach. But the best defensive coach in the world isn't going to do squat with Meyers Leonard or JJ Hickson. Except bench them.

So for you is it Dieng or bust? All the other centers in this draft seem to be uncoordinated on offense. A walking turnover.

Defense is huge, but we can't play 4 on 5 on offense. They have to be able to touch the ball with out everyone in the arena holding their breath.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

So for you is it Dieng or bust?

Okay, given all that I've said about SGs, it's a bit rich for me to say this, but my first choice would probably be Oladipo. But mainly because of his defensive intensity. But of the players likely to be available to us, Dieng or Schroeder would be my first choice. Dieng because I think he would have the greatest positive impact, Schroeder because he has real star potential and we need a backup PG A LOT.

Defense is huge, but we can't play 4 on 5 on offense. They have to be able to touch the ball with out everyone in the arena holding their breath.

Dieng can hit a jump shot. He's probably the best C on offense right now as well! The only reason he isn't clear cut fave is because he's 2-3 years older than the others, and people seem to see potential superstars in Noel, Len, Adams and Gobert.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

A cautionary tale about building a team through the draft.

 

[blue9]

I don't get what you're saying. Why would having a good SG help the BLAZERS "dominate the league"?

I don't think I said a good SG would help us dominate the league. I don't think any team with LMA as the/a main piece will ever dominate the league.

A "huge amount of C talent"!? That's just false.

I believe I said that in comparison to the SG position there's a huge amount of C talent. And that's not false.
SG Talent: Harden (Wade..............Mayo, Matthews, Klay, Martin, Ellis, DeRozen)
C Talent: Howard, Hibbert, Gasol, Noah, Lopez (Horford, Vucevic, Cousins, Monroe, Sanders, Asik, Drummond.........Gortat, Jordan, McGee)

Also, because I don't believe that any team built around LMA will be taken seriously I'm coming at this from a position of asset acquisition. Typically great SGs dominate the league (when surrounded by the proper team), so that'd be a very strong asset to hold. Even though I included 3 Cs on my short list (so clearly I agree with you about needing a C), I think they have much higher bust potential than Shabazz, so to me it's more likely that Shabazz will be the most valuable asset three years from now.

 

[Pinwheel1]

But of the players likely to be available to us, Dieng or Schroeder would be my first choice. Dieng because I think he would have the greatest positive impact, Schroeder because he has real star potential and we need a backup PG A LOT.

Dieng can hit a jump shot. He's probably the best C on offense right now as well! .

Well I can't dispute that a back Up PG is important. I guess I don't prioritize the position because
Damian will dominate the minutes and I think Maynor is pretty good for that role.

Frustrating that neither Dieng nor Shabazz has worked out for the Blazers in Portland.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Gery Woelfel: I'm hearing Cavs have moved Otto Porter to the top of their draft board. Twitter @GeryWoelfel

This should be taken with a grain of salt because the Cavs are notoriously secretive. But if so, it would be pretty damning. Almost as damning as them taking Tristan Thompson with the fourth pick...

 

[Rastapopoulos]

Well I can't dispute that a back Up PG is important. I guess I don't prioritize the position because
Damian will dominate the minutes and I think Maynor is pretty good for that role.

I was assuming Maynor was gone to clear up cap space. And I think Lillard actually needs to play less, given that he led the NBA in minutes...

Frustrating that neither Dieng nor Shabazz has worked out for the Blazers in Portland.

Yeah. I don't know how to read that. Lillard worked out for us last year, but did Leonard? And Olshey said they were targeting Barton all along - did he work out for us?

 

[Rastapopoulos]

This would be a double buzzkill:

sources tell SheridanHoops.com the Cavs are in serious discussions to acquire Shawn Marion from Dallas in a lopsided trade that would allow them to move up from No. 19 to No. 13 in the first round by relieving the Mavs of Marion’s $9.3 million salary, allowing Mark Cuban more salary cap flexibility to use on July 1.
...
On the trade front there are at least three lottery picks that are very available. Minnesota and Portland, along with the aforementiond Mavs, continue to reach out to teams to discuss potential deals as their respective draft picks are available to the highest bidder.

In their rough draft they have Dieng falling to 27! Either I've made a huge mistake about him or that's stupid.

 

[BrianFromWA]

WAS seems to want to clear cap space and is offering up #3 for it. They also seem to be talking with MIL building around a #3-for-Ilyasova trade.

Just mixing rumors here--taking, say, Nene and #3 for our cap space, sending LMA out on the rumored CLE deal, and Papanikolou + 2nds for #13...

turns out to be LMA, Papanikolou, 2 2nds and cap space for:
Nene, Thompson, #1 (Noel or Len), #3 (Oladipo or McLemore), #13, #19 (maybe, or a future first from CLE)

-Leaving us with a starting lineup of:
Lillard/(Oladipo or McLemore)/Batum/Thompson/Nene

-a returning bench of Wes, Leonard, Freeland, Claver

#10 and #13 for BPA (I'm thinking "stretch 4 and b/u wing"--something like Zeller/Shabazz or McCollum/Olynyk--or, going way out there, Schroeder/Greek Batum)

a stash at 19, or a hot riser (Schroeder/Greek Batum/Ricky Ledo/Allen Crabbe/Tony Mitchell)

And you'd still have Len or Noel coming back at some point later in the season.

To me, they may not be great next year, but I like that team a lot better in the next 2-6 years than trading #10 for Gortat or something.

 

[Reep]

WAS seems to want to clear cap space and is offering up #3 for it.

Just mixing rumors here--taking, say, Nene and #3 for our cap space

I would be happy with stopping at Nene/Okafor and #3 for cap space.

You could add Nene/Okafor, Olipado and Adams or Nene/Okafor, Len and Pope.

Either one of those combinations would add a lot of depth and defensive help to the team. The best part is you would get immediate center help for LMA, and still get some young talent to build with. I don't believe it would happen though.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

I like that. Though I would prefer that we keep Kostas and send out a future 2nd rounder.

It'd firmly put this team on the Wiggens tank train.

 

[BrianFromWA]

I would be happy with stopping at Nene/Okafor and #3 for cap space.

You could add Nene/Okafor, Olipado and Adams or Nene/Okafor, Len and Pope.

Either one of those combinations would add a lot of depth and defensive help to the team. The best part is you would get immediate center help for LMA, and still get some young talent to build with. I don't believe it would happen though.

Fair enough. My opinion that LMA is leaving regardless in 2 years is well-known, but if this was all that happened this offseason (and I'd probably go with the Oladipo-or-McLemore at 3, Stretch 4 or b/u C at 10 plan) I could live with it.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

I get the firm impression that GMs round the league think this draft sucks balls.

 

[Boise Blazer]

Marc Stein ‏@ESPNSteinLine 1m
ESPN reported in April that Rockets, widely seen as leaders in Dwight Howard chase, planned to shed Robinson so they can offer Dwight

Marc Stein ‏@ESPNSteinLine 55s
Rockets, I'm told, have eyes on fistful of international players they'd draft with a first for Robinson to keep overseas and avoid cap hit

 

[RR7]

Marc Stein ‏@ESPNSteinLine 15m
Some draft scuttle: Rockets have been offered chance to shed contract of PF Thomas Robinson for first-round pick in next Thursday's draft

 

[Boise Blazer]

Marc Stein ‏@ESPNSteinLine 5m
I'm no @chadfordinsider, so hope I'm getting these names right. Players on Rockets' radar: Adetokunbo, Gobert, Karasev, Nogueira, Schroeder

 

[Reep]

Marc Stein ‏@ESPNSteinLine 15m
Some draft scuttle: Rockets have been offered chance to shed contract of PF Thomas Robinson for first-round pick in next Thursday's draft

I'd take that. Robinson and a first for cap space? He could look nice coming off the bench. I doubt that is what is really being offered though.

 

[Rastapopoulos]

I'd take that. Robinson and a first for cap space? He could look nice coming off the bench. I doubt that is what is really being offered though.

You're mis-reading: a first for Robinson. Then the Rockets draft a stash player so they clear cap space for this year. I would NOT give up #10 for Robinson.

 

[Reep]

You're mis-reading: a first for Robinson. Then the Rockets draft a stash player so they clear cap space for this year. I would NOT give up #10 for Robinson.

Nor would anyone else. Maybe a late first rounder.

 

[KeepOnRollin]

Nor would anyone else. Maybe a late first rounder.

Someone will still think he can live up to being the 5th pick in a (stronger) NBA draft. I wouldn't give up #10 for him at this point but I bet someone would be ok with giving up #17 on down.

 

[Wizard Mentor]

anyone know who Chad Ford put in his 1st Tier?

 

[Rhal]

anyone know who Chad Ford put in his 1st Tier?

It was discussed in another thread but no one from this draft Made 1st tier and no one made 2nd tier either.

 

[BrianFromWA]

remember, though, that Ford does his tiers based on the consensus he gets from GMs---not necessarily his personal feelings.

To make sense of all this, the past few years I've chronicled a draft ranking system employed by several teams called the tier system.

In the tier system, teams group players, based on overall talent, into tiers. Then the teams rank the players in each tier based on team need. This system allows teams to draft not only the best player available but also the player who best helps the team.

So what do the tiers look like this year? After talking to several GMs and scouts whose teams employ this system, here is how the tiers look:

I've heard several people (Kevin Pelton, for one) who puts a few of Ford's "Tier Three" guys into Tier Two.