Official 2013 Draft thread (1 Viewer)

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Watched a couple games last night to get a look at some 2nd round prospects

First game was an ACC tournament 1st round game, Virginia Tech vs. NC State

Richard Howell: Rebounding looks great and seems to be have nice role player potential as he can score some too. Showed a nice mid range J and the ability to put the ball on the floor and a attack bigs from the elbow area. Finished well too. Didn't measure great at the combine and isn't a stand-out athlete which limits his defensive potential but if he can be just a smart positional defender with a motor, his rebounding and no mistake offensive game is more than enough for him to find a role as a back-up 4.

Lorenzo Brown: I like him as back-up pg prospect. Great size at 6'5" with elite passing ability and good ball handling. Looks to have some defensive potential as he he can bother smaller guards with his size. Hands are active and he moves his feet well. Scoring is where he has issues. Not a good shooter (with iffy shot selection) and not a great finisher as well. Has the quickness and craftiness to get in the lane but doesn't score consistently in the paint.

Not really sure he's that far off as a prospect from Micheal Carter-Williams. MCW is a better athlete, but Lorenzo handles the ball better. Both are great passers with defensive potential and both are questioned as scorers. Some will say that well MCW is a sophomore while Lorenzo is a senior but they are actually only about a year apart age-wise.

C.J. Leslie: His quickness is jaw dropping at his size but I don't really see much else to like about this guy. Seems to play in bursts. Will make a couple plays in a row that will wow you but will also disappear completely for large stretches of games. Offensive game is still raw and I question his IQ on both ends.

Erick Green: Had one of his worst games of the year so this might not be a fair game to evaluate him, but I will anyways lol. His game his very unorthodox. Didn't shoot well in this game as NC state put a lot of their defensive attention on him. Didn't really look like a point guard to me and has size issues as a SG so that is a worry. Shows some potential as an off the ball scorer but seems to rely a lot on his jumper for his points so I don't know if his game has enough dimensions to it to make up for his other issues.

Also took a look at Jackie Carmichael so I watched Illinois State vs. Wichita State in the MVC tournament (his last game of his college career)

I didn't like what I saw. Didn't really know anything about him and then I watched his DX interview from the combine and was intrigued by his maturity and how he viewed himself as a player.

He's physically impressive at just under 6'10" and 240 but to me, he didn't really look like a basketball player. He moved much more like a center as well as he doesn't really have great feet so I worry about his ability to keep up with most 4's. So instead of having great size as a PF he's now an undersized center which I think lowers his potential greatly. His rebounding left a lot to be desired as well. Illinois State played a lot of zone in this game which affected things but I saw guy that was slow to react to the ball off the rim and lacked aggression. Looked up his numbers to see if this was just an anomaly, but what I saw was a guy who was an inconsistent rebounder all season with only one standout rebounding year in a weak conference.
 
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JDC said:
Watched a couple game last night to get a look at some 2nd round prospects

First game was an ACC tournament 1st round game, Virginia Tech vs. NC State

Richard Howell: Rebounding looks great and seems to be have nice role player potential as he can score some too. Showed a nice mid range J and the ability to put the ball on the floor and a attack bigs from the elbow area. Finished well too. Didn't measure great at the combine and isn't a stand-out athlete which limits his defensive potential but if he can be just a smart positional defender with a motor, his rebounding and no mistake offensive game is more than enough for him to find a role as a back-up 4.

Lorenzo Brown: I like him as back-up pg prospect. Great size at 6'5" with elite passing ability and good ball handling. Looks to have some defensive potential as he looks he could bother smaller guards with his size. Hands are active and he moves his feet well. Scoring is where he has issues. Not a good shooter (with iffy shot selection) and not a great finisher as well. Has the quickness and craftiness to get in the lane but doesn't score consistently in the paint.

Not really sure he's that far off as a prospect from Micheal Carter-Williams. MCW is a better athlete, but Lorenzo handles the ball better. Both a great passers with defensive potential with their size and both are questioned as scorers.

C.J. Leslie: His quickness is jaw dropping at his size but I don't really see much else to like about this guy. Seems to play in bursts. Will make a couple plays in a row that will wow you but will also disappear completely for large stretches of games. Offensive game is still raw and I question his IQ on both ends.

Erick Green: Had one of his worst games of the year so this might not be a fair game to evaluate his game but I will anyways lol. His game his very unorthodox. Didn't shoot well in this game as NC state put a lot of their defensive attention on him. Didn't really look like a point guard to me and has size issues as a SG so that is a worry. Shows some potential as an off the ball scorer but seems to rely a lot on his jumper for his points so I don't know if his game has enough dimensions to it to make up for his other issues.
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I watched that NC State-Va Tech game live, and I had most of the same impressions of Howell, Leslie and Green. I really like Howell as a Milsap-type. After he goes undrafted, I'd love it if the Blazers to bring him in.
 
NOVoodoo said:
Now that I'm finally seeing the bench press numbers being released, how mindfucking are the following #'s -

Cody Zeller - 17 (sixth overall)
Matthew Dellavedova - 16 (ninth overall and #1 for guards, tied with Canaan and Hardaway, equaling big man Steven Adams)

Brandon Paul also had a very surprising 15 reps. That's impressive, because the guy made his living as a perimeter shooter.

Lower body strength and core strength matters more for NBA players than upper body strength, but it's still interesting to see that Matthew Dellavedova can bench as much as Steven Adams.

And for Zeller, the rich keep getting richer with these measurements. Not only did he have the highest no-step vert of any 6'9"+ big in over a decade, he also showed up strong on the bench. The only players that benched more, who have a shot of getting drafted were Mbakwe and Cooley.

(I'm not high on Cody Zeller as a high draft pick, but just knowing the biases in the draft process, I'll steal a thought process from Jason Kapono and say, "if Tyler Zeller would have moved to Greece and changed his name to "Giannis Adetokunbo," he'd be a top five pick.")
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I can't believe how weak some NBA players are. Can't bench 185lbs for any reps. Thats sad.
 
Cavs considering Otto Porter with the #1 pick.

Okay, so I'm not nuts, there are other people that like Porter as much as I do.
 
Going through various podcasts I heard an interesting comparison for Steven Adams: Andre Drommond

Obviously he's not the athletic freak but similar situations during their only year in college.

Über raw offensively, great size, athletic, defense.
 
Fez Hammersticks said:
Going through various podcasts I heard an interesting comparison for Steven Adams: Andre Drommond

Obviously he's not the athletic freak but similar situations during their only year in college.

Über raw offensively, great size, athletic, defense.
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I like Adams better than probably any Center in the draft.
 
Fez Hammersticks said:
If that's the case, I wonder if they'd be interested in Batum.
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Batum is overpaid but in this draft I am not sure who I would take #1 that would make me feel that they get to a Batum-level or better. Any other draft I do that swap in a heartbeat.
 
Fez Hammersticks said:
Going through various podcasts I heard an interesting comparison for Steven Adams: Andre Drommond

Obviously he's not the athletic freak but similar situations during their only year in college.

Über raw offensively, great size, athletic, defense.
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What podcasts have you been listening to for info on the drafties? I'v been searching all of Itunes and ESPN and can't find that many.
 
KeepOnRollin said:
Batum is overpaid but in this draft I am not sure who I would take #1 that would make me feel that they get to a Batum-level or better. Any other draft I do that swap in a heartbeat.
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I agree. Not saying Otto Porter sucks. He will be in this league for many years. Looks to be a very good defender with all around good BB IQ. The more I see the more I like him. The games I watched of him (i.e the Syracuse game where they used a zone) he looked bad because his shot is so ugly. But he does do other things well. He just is not as good of a shooter as Nic. I prefer he play with Nic, not trade Nic for him.

I would not select him #1. Oladipo or McLemore would be my choices that high.
 
BlazerCaravan said:
Who is this year's Lillard?
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I meant it in nothing more than a, X will be at least a solid role player/contributor for X amount of years, type of way. Otto Porter in different ways than Barnes. Just everyone knew Barnes was probably the most ready and most reliable prospect.

Lillard is a tough comparison. He has a lot more PG skills than people give him credit for. I'd say McCollum would be close, but McCollum is much more scoring oriented. Trey Burke could be close, but a different style of game. Not many PGs are ready like Lillard, with such an offensive arsenal and solid PG, leadership, and passing skills.
 
Rastapopoulos said:
There was a guy (also from Memphis) a while back who was a crazy athlete - he used to jump ball for them even though he was a small forward. He went on to play for the Globetrotters. This must've been in the 90s. Anyone remember?
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Elliot Williams' much older brother?
 
maxiep said:
Elliot Williams' much older brother?
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The guy's name is Michael "Wild Thing" Wilson... dunked on a 12 foot goal, had a 50+" inch vert, played high school and college ball in Memphis in the early 90's but never made the pro's...
 
NOVoodoo said:
The guy's name is Michael "Wild Thing" Wilson... dunked on a 12 foot goal, had a 50+" inch vert, played high school and college ball in Memphis in the early 90's but never made the pro's...
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I was joking. Elliot Williams is a player for us who came from Memphis and can jump quite high. Unfortunately, Greg Oden says, "Man, that dude is injured all the time".
 
maxiep said:
I was joking. Elliot Williams is a player for us who came from Memphis and can jump quite high. Unfortunately, Greg Oden says, "Man, that dude is injured all the time".
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I know you were joking man. I mean, you don't need to tell me who Elliot Williams is. I've played against Elliot before haha... dude went to St. George's. We both came up in the same AAU/TSSAA circuit playing in the same division.

My response was to the question from Rasta that you quoted.
 
NOVoodoo said:
I know you were joking man. I mean, you don't need to tell me who Elliot Williams is. I've played against Elliot before haha... dude went to St. George's. We both came up in the same AAU/TSSAA circuit playing in the same division.

My response was to the question from Rasta that you quoted.
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That little back and forth between you 2 just got a little awkward.
 
Just to show that scouting reports arent always accurate and that players CAN develop:

Positives: George has a lanky frame with minimal body fat (5%) … Has a good wingspan for a two-guard type (6'11"), along with an adequate standing reach (8'11") … Very athletic mover on the court, getting very good elevation to insure completing his shot over the outstretched arms of a defender … Does a very good job of drawing contact on the way to the rim and is a deadly shooter from the foul line (set the school record by hitting on 90.9% of his tries last year) … Also displays valid NBA-caliber long range skills (fifth in school history by making 39.5% of his three-pointers) … Shows good form and a quick release point taking mid-range jumpers … Mature for a young player, doing a nice job of using his lateral movement to stay in front of the shooter and is not the type who can be easily fooled by the opponent's hesitation moves or fakes … Despite his wiry frame and marginal strength, he shows the body control and balance, along with a good concept for angling, to slip under bigger opponents for put-backs from the offensive glass and will not hesitate to crash the boards on the defensive end (led the team in rebounds both seasons at the school) … Has a smooth gliding motion to the basket and has the quick first step needed to get separation off the dribble to make an uncontested shot … Even with his lack of power, he shows tremendous explosiveness to the rim … Best as a scorer in transition and when spotting up, doing a nice job of maintaining proper position down low … One of the better small forwards when it comes to rebounding, using his reach and elevation to get up and over the opponent to grab the ball … Generates a good drive to the basket, muscling his way through the crowd to pull up, set his feet and execute a nice lay-up … Uses his hops well to finish the transition plays with a forceful jam … Stays low in his stance and keeps his hands active in pressure defense, doing a very good job of altering shots or taking his man off the dribble … Gets good position to force his opponent out of the passing lanes … Has the ability to handle defensive rotations and shows the foot speed to stay with the smaller guards … When facing off vs. the slower forwards, he uses an explosive first step to separate and slash to the basket … Is all over the offensive boards in attempts to execute the put-backs or get the rebound … With his elevation and glide to the basket, he is very effective at drawing contact … Shows the foot speed to get in front on the fast break and is a viable scoring option to finish in transition or play in the open court.

Negatives: Has good court quickness and length to play small forward, but his obvious lack of strength (five reps at 185-pound bench) might cause him to struggle defending vs. more physical frontcourt types … Has good court quickness, but needs to show a more consistent motor (seems to go through the motions when not involved in the play) … Was more caught up in creating his own shot (not that good at it) rather than trying to feed the ball off to a teammate with a better opportunity last year (went from making 47% of his field goals and 44.7% of his three-pointers as a freshman to 42.4%/35.3% as a sophomore) … Can draw contact to the rim, but seemed to be more enamored parking on the perimeter and taking three-point chances … Needs to show better focus, as he will disappear for long stretches (see 12/6 San Diego, 12/28 Colorado State and 2/27 San Jose State games) … Has to develop a better handle on the ball and struggles with his shot when pulling off the dribble … Takes too many off-balanced shots and needs to show better ball distribution skills, especially if he is to earn minutes at the two-guard slot (fails to locate the open man and will simply keep the ball and drive into a crowd) … Can put the ball on the floor for a few dribbles, but lacks precision when trying to pass the sphere (could be the reason he takes too many shots himself) … Unless he bulks up and gets stronger, his frame might not be able to withstand punishing contact at the next level … Showed a high release point and good quickness getting off his shot as a freshman, but as he became too focused on taking three-pointers last season, his release was very deliberate, allowing the defense to position in attempts to alter his shot … Never really faced top level competition at Fresno State and seemed bored when having to play in lopsided contests (would like to see more consistent intensity from the player).

Compares To: TRACY McGRADY, New York -- Like McGrady (when healthy), George is a versatile player who has the quickness you look for in a shooting guard, trapped in a small forward's body. He does a good job of drawing contact and is an almost automatic when he gets to the charity stripe. He is not the greatest ball handler and will get into a rhythm where he falls in love with his perimeter shot and needs to improve his passing skills, as he is better served looking for a better scoring option than to take so many ill-advised shots himself.
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"I'm hearing quite loudly from multiple sources the Mavs are likely to trade this pick to save cap room for a run at Dwight Howard this summer. If they keep the pick, the Mavs are as high on Saric as any team in the league. ESPN.com"

I still think our Greek would be a good option for #13. And that along with #10 should move us up. Or if we kept it another nice young piece.
 
Advice: GIVE UP ON OLADIPO. I assume that's the reason everybody wants to move up. Well, everybody wants him, so he'll be gone by pick 4. And Cho never traded pick #2 despite everyone wanting it last year, so... forget it.

Take a solid player with #10 - like Schröder or Dieng. Just use this criterion: "do I believe that when this draft is "re-done" by nerds in the future that this player would be in the top ten?" I think the answer with both of those is "yes". Dieng, like Festus Ezeli last year, is being undervalued, and Schröder is the German Rajon Rondo.
 
Rastapopoulos said:
Advice: GIVE UP ON OLADIPO. I assume that's the reason everybody wants to move up. Well, everybody wants him, so he'll be gone by pick 4. And Cho never traded pick #2 despite everyone wanting it last year, so... forget it.

Take a solid player with #10 - like Schröder or Dieng. Just use this criterion: "do I believe that when this draft is "re-done" by nerds in the future that this player would be in the top ten?" I think the answer with both of those is "yes". Dieng, like Festus Ezeli last year, is being undervalued, and Schröder is the German Rajon Rondo.
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I'd go Adams over Dieng this high in the draft.
 
Fez Hammersticks said:
I'd go Adams over Dieng this high in the draft.
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That's like Leonard over Ezeli.

I'm wary of someone who looks better in combines than in actual games. Plus I think Dieng is valuable for his character and intelligence over and above his natural physical profile. Adams smacks of Olowokandi.
 
Rastapopoulos said:
That's like Leonard over Ezeli.

I'm wary of someone who looks better in combines than in actual games. Plus I think Dieng is valuable for his character and intelligence over and above his natural physical profile. Adams smacks of Olowokandi.
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Look at their FR stats and Adams is slightly better (or on par) than what Dieng did his first year at Louisville. Adams was two years younger as well. Adams also has a much bigger frame -- true center size already at 19. His upside is considerably higher.

Adams: 7.2 PPG | 6.3 RPG | 57 FG% | 23.1 MPG| 87.0 DRtg | 1.9 DWS | 23.2 PER | Age: 19
Dieng: 5.7 PPG | 4.4 RPG | 62 FG% | 15.6 MPG | 89.1 DRtg | 1.1 DWS | 24.2 PER | Age: 21
 
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