Politics Official 2024 Presidential Election Thread

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Who will "Win?"

  • Total voters
    42
barfo said:
I meant more votes than Harris, obviously.
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He didn't need to get more votes than Harris. He just needed to get the votes that he got last time. And he mostly got those. He did pull some additional macho minorities.

Harris didn't pull anybody. She got the minimum that any Democrat would get. Anybody who doesn't think Dems need to do better is a part of the problem, IMO. Out of touch with reality.
 
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barfo said:
Whereas, everybody trusts Trump?

barfo
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I think what people are saying is what they did didn’t work. Either the candidate wasn’t liked or the association to Biden (whom I’m a big fan) was too much.

A candidate that wasn’t affiliated to the last few regimes would’ve been a nice change and probably a winner.
 
“People can analyze, hypothesize, blame Dems till they are blue in the face. None of it matters.

This is the game right here.

Misinformation works. Those that believed misinformation voted Trump. Those that believed the truth voted Harris.

There is NO candidate that can change this.

Republicans have a well oiled propaganda machine that spans all media platforms and we do not.”

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GoZers said:
“People can analyze, hypothesize, blame Dems till they are blue in the face. None of it matters.

This is the game right here.

Misinformation works. Those that believed misinformation voted Trump. Those that believed the truth voted Harris.

There is NO candidate that can change this.

Republicans have a well oiled propaganda machine that spans all media platforms and we do not.”

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And what do you do about that? What's the solution?

Education. That's it.

How do we get better education if Dems won't take responsibility?
 
Phatguysrule said:
And what do you do about that? What's the solution?

Education. That's it.

How do we get better education if Dems won't take responsibility?
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Going forward changes have to be made. Every losing team has to change and learn. But THIS election, which we’ve been discussing, was not lost for any other reason than MAGA voters believing lies. Through social media, the actual “media”, through podcasters and through the candidate himself. Lies and misinformation and propaganda, not because “Kamala didn’t outline xyz policy and voters had nothing to vote for”.
 
GoZers said:
Going forward changes have to be made. Every losing team has to change and learn. But THIS election, which we’ve been discussing, was not lost for any other reason than MAGA voters believing lies. Through social media, the actual “media”, through podcasters and through the candidate himself. Lies and misinformation and propaganda
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Absolutely. But we've known this for over a decade. Maybe decades. And Democrats have still allowed our education system to be gutted. Because they are relying on the same lobbyists that the Republicans are relying on.

Democrats have simply been playing politics. They've been fine cutting out this wedge of society to use as a red herring or this other wedge of society to use as a red herring. Same as the Republicans.

They need to stop going after inconsequential people and start being serious about serious things that can actually make a real difference.

, not because “Kamala didn’t outline xyz policy and voters had nothing to vote for”.
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It didn't matter what Kamala said. Nobody liked her in 2020. She was a shitty candidate from the start. She was relatively untested. And the test that she did have she failed spectacularly in 2020. And immediately pivoted in a way that turned off a huge portion of the left.

As soon as you picked Kamala you likely committed to having 10 million fewer voters care about voting. The only reason Biden ever won was because COVID happened And people were pissed off about it and blamed the sitting president. And Trump helped by being such a shitty president.

That's not good enough. Counting on Republicans being shitty isn't good enough.

Democrats need a major shift a major conversation about how progressive policies can actually help us in this country. Nearly every problem that we have can be solved with progressive policies. Unfortunately they've dropped that ball for so long that it's going to be really hard to pick it back up. And the base allowed that to happen.
 
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The Democratic party needs to be rebuilt and needs to focus on the people and the things that need to be fixed, not on the opponent or the other party. The Democratic party, must become a party of the people again. That's not going to be easy, it's going to take time.

Trump's administration is about tear everything down and put worse things in their place, not that the things there were already good to begin with.

Then when the Democrats get back in power if they ever do or can, they will have to tear that all down and build it again from scratch.

If they get their shit together maybe they can rebuild it right.
 
Chris Craig said:
The Democratic party needs to be rebuilt and needs to focus on the people and the things that need to be fixed, not on the opponent or the other party. The Democratic party, must become a party of the people again. That's not going to be easy, it's going to take time.

Trump's administration is about tear everything down and put worse things in their place, not that the things there were already good to begin with.

Then when the Democrats get back in power if they ever do or can, they will have to tear that all down and build it again from scratch.

If they get their shit together maybe they can rebuild it right.
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It doesn't matter what the Democrats do. 70 million people voted to elect a convicted felon and sex offender to the highest office in the land. 70 million people who don't care about morals, ethics or the rule of law (except when it benefits them). 70 million people who gleefully bought into obvious lies and distortions. As the old saying goes, "you can't fix stupid". Multiply stupid by 70 million and you'll see why we're fucked beyond measure for at least the next generation.
 
UncleCliffy'sDaddy said:
It doesn't matter what the Democrats do. 70 million people voted to elect a convicted felon and sex offender to the highest office in the land. 70 million people who don't care about morals, ethics or the rule of law (except when it benefits them). 70 million people who gleefully bought into obvious lies and distortions. As the old saying goes, "you can't fix stupid". Multiply stupid by 70 million and you'll see why we're fucked beyond measure for at least the next generation.
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I don't think giving up is a respectable option. That's what Germany did.
 
UncleCliffy'sDaddy said:
It doesn't matter what the Democrats do. 70 million people voted to elect a convicted felon and sex offender to the highest office in the land. 70 million people who don't care about morals, ethics or the rule of law (except when it benefits them). 70 million people who gleefully bought into obvious lies and distortions. As the old saying goes, "you can't fix stupid". Multiply stupid by 70 million and you'll see why we're fucked beyond measure for at least the next generation.
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Well stupid is about to get fucked too
 
UncleCliffy'sDaddy said:
It doesn't matter what the Democrats do. 70 million people voted to elect a convicted felon and sex offender to the highest office in the land. 70 million people who don't care about morals, ethics or the rule of law (except when it benefits them). 70 million people who gleefully bought into obvious lies and distortions. As the old saying goes, "you can't fix stupid". Multiply stupid by 70 million and you'll see why we're fucked beyond measure for at least the next generation.
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I agree it is pretty hypocritical seeing that the "right" accused Clinton for raping a volunteer when he was the Attorney General of Arkansas. (and accused Hillary for threatening the woman) If only we believed the women.......
 
Pinwheel1 said:
I agree it is pretty hypocritical seeing that the "right" accused Clinton for raping a volunteer when he was the Attorney General of Arkansas. (and accused Hillary for threatening the woman) If only we believed the women.......
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Not sure if this is some sort of "gotcha", but yes, we do need to believe the women when they are credible. Though in today's political climate full of lies and distortions, what is credible? Any time a woman comes forward, she is destroyed and spit out. It's disgusting. And for whatever it is worth, I voted for Clinton in '92 but voted for the Republican candidate (for the first and only time ever) in 1996 because of his (Clinton's) libidinous behavior. I apparently have much higher expectations for presidential candidates than at least 70 million other Americans......
 
Pinwheel1 said:
I agree it is pretty hypocritical seeing that the "right" accused Clinton for raping a volunteer when he was the Attorney General of Arkansas. (and accused Hillary for threatening the woman) If only we believed the women.......
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Trump voters are hypocritical.

I think this is understood.

The question is, IMO; How do we do well in spite of that?
 
Phatguysrule said:
Trump voters are hypocritical.

I think this is understood.

The question is, IMO; How do we do well in spite of that?
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Yes I would say both sides are hypocritical when it comes to the moral highground. Whatever it takes to get your team in office and to stay in office. Not sure that will ever change.
 
Chris Craig said:
The Democratic party needs to be rebuilt and needs to focus on the people and the things that need to be fixed, not on the opponent or the other party. The Democratic party, must become a party of the people again. That's not going to be easy, it's going to take time.

Trump's administration is about tear everything down and put worse things in their place, not that the things there were already good to begin with.

Then when the Democrats get back in power if they ever do or can, they will have to tear that all down and build it again from scratch.

If they get their shit together maybe they can rebuild it right.
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Definitely, the Dems need to go left, and they will realize this too late. But also, a real problem here and now is that Democrats by-and-large are boring and unlikable. We haven't had a robust local level to national level pipeline in decades, so none of our current crop knows how to relate to Actual Human Beings. The candidates who lose are all boring-ass policy wonks with no bedside manner. No personality.

Obama was a community leader with a whiff of MLK Jr to his speeches and it worked. Biden was old-school beltway who took no shit and it worked. Clinton was a lovable huckster with a sitcom wife and it worked. Hell even Carter had that folksy Georgia Farmer charm. And of course JFK was the playboy war hero with a girl at every port.

People liked these guys (and yes, probably because they're guys they got forgiven for a lot) because they made policy fun, or at least entertaining enough to watch.

Tim Walz isn't the right aesthetic to win, but he was close, especially early on before the Democrat wonks means-tested their message into oblivion.

Pete isn't going to do shit on the national level.

Shapiro's east coast tough guy thing might do really well soon, because there's been a realization among the left that Nice But Not Kind is worse than Kind But Not Nice (that is to say, good words can't be good actions). I hope the Democratic establishment can see that. This is all hinging on enough resistance to keep fair elections in 2026 and 2028 but if that happens, I think an intense no-bullshit guy might work.
 
Chris Craig said:
The Democratic party needs to be rebuilt and needs to focus on the people and the things that need to be fixed, not on the opponent or the other party. The Democratic party, must become a party of the people again. That's not going to be easy, it's going to take time.

Trump's administration is about tear everything down and put worse things in their place, not that the things there were already good to begin with.

Then when the Democrats get back in power if they ever do or can, they will have to tear that all down and build it again from scratch.

If they get their shit together maybe they can rebuild it right.
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Well said Chris. The message needs to be common since approach for all people.
 
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Everything Beagle said:
We gotta get back to helpful, chicken in every pot populism. And when republicans call it communism laugh in their face and call it friendship and community.
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Also, it occurs to me that you can pitch community to rural folks: everyone in rural areas has a whole network of "guys": they got their firewood guy, they got the guy who will work on their car, the guy who knows septic systems, the guy who has venison every winter, etc... it's all in trade too: two rifles for a winter's worth of venison, a chainsaw for the firewood guy, etc. My grandpa was the "junk guy" who often acted as a third party to guys who didn't have what the other guy needed. You could position a friendly, helpful government as a junk guy to help make the community work better, as long as it's giving them things they need.

Democrats need to stop offering the gifts of the city, and figure out how to offer gifts of the people. Good luck with that, but jesus if I can think of this, it's not that hard to figure out, y'know?
 
Everything Beagle said:
We gotta get back to helpful, chicken in every pot populism. And when republicans call it communism laugh in their face and call it friendship and community.
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I think many on both sides would agree. But there also needs to be some tough love. When we are struggling to take care of our own, how can we care for everyone else? Two million extra people a year during the Biden administration was bad optics when the homelessness problem was already a huge issue.

Granted Trump was an asshole when describing those people as the vast majority were not criminals. Nonetheless, they should not have been encouraged to come, and at first, they were. Most of these people do not require asylum ....they just wanted the hell out of their countries. So how do we turn that around? How do we help those countries build a thriving economy so none wants to leave? (without assassinating their corrupt dictators) Mexico has the 12th-best economy in the world. How did they do it?
 
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