Politics Official 2024 Presidential Election Thread

[Chris Craig]

I know we don't have the data yet, but this election surely debunks the myth that every woman under 40 in America is purely motivated politically by abortion.

They are not apparently

 

[PCmor7]

Congratulations, Johnny and Beast.

It was a long morning for me. Hours felt like years.

I feel very sad because I think the vast majority of Americans are going to come out the worse for what happened yesterday, people of all parties. Ironically, I fit the person that should do well in this new reality, and I've already reaped some benefits from it.

It doesn't feel good, though. I just don't see a way this plays out well for the people.

But, I have to qualify that by the fact that I obviously don't know enough about this topic to really offer a good opinion.

I don't feel I have anything to contribute on American politics, policy or social discourse anymore. The country has spoken and I'm obviously out of step with it.

Anyway, Johnny, Beast, the board and the country are yours. Have at it. I won't dissent on anything that doesn't directly affect me from here on out.

 

[PCmor7]

 

[BigGameDamian]

 

[PCmor7]

It's time to dissolve the Democratic Party. Time to put us out of our misery.

 

[Everything Beagle]

Congratulations, Johnny and Beast.

It was a long morning for me. Hours felt like years.

I feel very sad because I think the vast majority of Americans are going to come out the worse for what happened yesterday, people of all parties. Ironically, I fit the person that should do well in this new reality, and I've already reaped some benefits from it.

It doesn't feel good, though. I just don't see a way this plays out well for the people.

But, I have to qualify that by the fact that I obviously don't know enough about this topic to really offer a good opinion.

I don't feel I have anything to contribute on American politics, policy or social discourse anymore. The country has spoken and I'm obviously out of step with it.

Anyway, Johnny, Beast, the board and the country are yours. Have at it. I won't dissent on anything that doesn't directly affect me from here on out.

Don’t you fucking give up now. One punch and you’re out? You got a glass jaw? Take your time, catch your breath, and get back up. You gotta do that. Giving up isn’t the way.

 

[PCmor7]

Don’t you fucking give up now. One punch and you’re out? You got a glass jaw? Take your time, catch your breath, and get back up. You gotta do that. Giving up isn’t the way.

No offense, Beagle, but I've been fighting for almost 60 years. I've taken a lot of punches. I've fought for others to my own detriment my whole life. I'm going through a situation like that right now that you wouldn't believe. I'm tired. I'm tired of hate and fighting. I really just want to go home. I'm ready to go home.

 

[Everything Beagle]

No offense, Beagle, but I've been fighting for almost 60 years. I've taken a lot of punches. I've fought for others to my own detriment my whole life. I'm going through a situation like that right now that you wouldn't believe. I'm tired. I'm tired of hate and fighting. I really just want to go home. I'm ready to go home.

None taken. You do you. Sorry to see you go.

 

[bulls_with_booz]

It's time to dissolve the Democratic Party. Time to put us out of our misery.

I think people need to step back and really evaluate Kamala Harris as a candidate, and some of the insane expectations they put on a last minute replacement. In that context, the Democrats are still very much in play for 2028. Earlier, even, as midterms are often a bloodbath for Trumpers.

 

[bulls_with_booz]

Also as an aside, some of the takes about women as potential presidential candidates in the future, their viability, have been so overblown. Hillary Clinton and a woman who polled 1% in her own primaries replacing a man who practically died during a televisied debate is a ridiculously small sample size. Go find me a government that inherited COVID inflation that didn't get the boot from voters anyway.

 

[Phatguysrule]

I think people need to step back and really evaluate Kamala Harris as a candidate, and some of the insane expectations they put on a last minute replacement. In that context, the Democrats are still very much in play for 2028. Earlier, even, as midterms are often a bloodbath for Trumpers.

Does that matter matter when Trump will have picked five supreme court judges?

 

[PCmor7]

I think people need to step back and really evaluate Kamala Harris as a candidate, and some of the insane expectations they put on a last minute replacement. In that context, the Democrats are still very much in play for 2028. Earlier, even, as midterms are often a bloodbath for Trumpers.

Wow.

OK.

Wow.

No further comment. I mean, I wouldn't even know where to start if I was still talking politics. There's just way too much mental gymnastics and blamewashing and excusing in three sentences for me to adequately address all the things I think are off-base with your post.

I think you're really misunderstanding the new lay of the land if you think 2028 is a realistic win for the Democratic Party. There's a pretty good chance the Democratic Party won't be that viable by then and with a president with virtually unlimited powers, both the Senate and House, an 8-1 advantage in SCOTUS, state legislations overwhelmingly red, with all the gerrymandering that's going to happen, there won't be anything to stop the GOP from fixing it that nothing will ever challenge its establishment ever again.

I don't know how people don't get that. But, then, I didn't think people would be indifferent to voting this year, either. We voted in a potential totalitarian regime with no way to oppose it unless it is completely inept, and judging by the damage it did without this unlimited power, I think the thing the Republican Party has shown it's very effective at is amassing and keeping power.

 

[PCmor7]

I think people need to step back and really evaluate Kamala Harris as a candidate, and some of the insane expectations they put on a last minute replacement. In that context, the Democrats are still very much in play for 2028. Earlier, even, as midterms are often a bloodbath for Trumpers.

Seriously, I need to step away. The more I read this post, the more angry it makes me. It just seems so utterly blind, and I don't want to get worked up on people acting like anyone not voting for Harris with what was at stake was a prudent choice. This post just makes no sense to me and that upsets me.

"The other guy failed miserably in four years, cost millions of Americans their health, livelihoods and incomes, tried to overthrow the government for the first time in our history, has vowed to be a dictator if elected again who would end birthright citizenship and has an economic plan that's likely to crush 90% of us, but Kamala Harris couldn't give us every detail about how she'd end price gouging at the market."

To me, that seems so incredibly myopic that I don't even know how to respond with anything short of utter indignance. WTH, guy?

 

[bulls_with_booz]

I don't know, I thought I made a pretty lukewarm post all things considered about Kamala being saddled with the weight of the world and Trump's inability to govern effectively leaving an opening for the White House in 2028. I never bought into the whole Project 2025 restructuring of America as something likely to happen even with a Trump victory. He will spend another 4 years bogged down in scandals and personal vendettas, supporting a candidate in 2028 to Make America Great Again Again because he spent more time on the golf course and Twitter then actually working towards an agenda.

For me and like 800 other idiots, neither candidate spoke to our principles. I was politically activated by the 2000s anti-war movements. Undecided voters get lumped into this dichotomy where they are struggling to make a choice between two candidates. I would never vote for Trump at this point (considered it in 2016) so it was up to the Harris camp to convince me and they failed spectacularly at that.

 

[PCmor7]

I just posted this on another board in response to a post saying Americans didn't care about the institution they claim to love as long as it benefits them personally. My response felt appropriate here, too.

To top it all off, it's not that it personally benefits them. They just chose to believe it would personally benefit them. Independent analysis has shown most Americans will lose money in a Trump presidency.

If you're a Latin American or Muslim American and are deported, even if you were born here, you aren't benefiting.

If you are Palestinian and have family in Gaza or the West Bank, you aren't benefiting.

If you are a political independent, you aren't benefiting.

If you are a single woman and the condum breaks, you aren't benefiting. If you are a woman wanting a divorce, you aren't benefiting.

If having NATO as a buffer against rogue nations around the world and us, you aren't benefiting.

If you have a pre-existing medical condition, you aren't benefiting.

If you just prefer to have qualified civil servants, you aren't benefiting.

If you are LGBTQ+, you aren't benefiting. Heck, if you are in a mixed-race marriage, there's a chance you're going to be oppressed.

If you want to be able to cast a vote in a district that could go back to the other party if the one in power doesn't suit you, you aren't benefiting.

If you just want to be able to turn on the television and not have the chief executive say/do something completely out of left field because he feels he isn't getting enough attention, you aren't benefiting.

I feel dumb, because, to me, this all seems so obvious. It's not about loving Kamala Harris. It's about wanting even a halfway competent person willing to stand by the rule of law in the Oval Office. Like I said, I'm out of touch with America, though. He won in the form of a mandate.

 

[barfo]

There are better candidates who could beat Trump. The DNC and Dem leadership simply doesn't want those kind of candidates.

You might be right about other candidates, I disagree but we'll never know for sure.

My current working theory is that we are simply outnumbered. The country has moved radically rightwards. The 2020 result masked this, because everything was such a shit-show at the end of Trump's first term, that enough people were motivated to vote for change, any change. That result made some of us think that Trump voters had seen the light, but we were obviously very much mistaken about that.

Some might say that it's a shit-show now because gas is $3.50 or pronouns or whatever. But that's not really true - the country is very clearly better off now than November 2020 by any rational measure. Could a better D candidate have convinced enough Trump voters of the truth of that? I'd say no (but, obviously, I can't prove that).

They believe the lies that Trump tells - maybe not all of them all the time, but the important ones - immigrants are stealing your jobs and/or raping you, the economy is terrible, things were great when Trump was in office, etc. They would have believed Trump no matter who the opposing candidate was.

barfo

 

[Phatguysrule]

I just posted this on another board in response to a post saying Americans didn't care about the institution they claim to love as long as it benefits them personally. My response felt appropriate here, too.

To top it all off, it's not that it personally benefits them. They just chose to believe it would personally benefit them. Independent analysis has shown most Americans will lose money in a Trump presidency.

If you're a Latin American or Muslim American and are deported, even if you were born here, you aren't benefiting.

If you are Palestinian and have family in Gaza or the West Bank, you aren't benefiting.

If you are a political independent, you aren't benefiting.

If you are a single woman and the condum breaks, you aren't benefiting. If you are a woman wanting a divorce, you aren't benefiting.

If having NATO as a buffer against rogue nations around the world and us, you aren't benefiting.

If you have a pre-existing medical condition, you aren't benefiting.

If you just prefer to have qualified civil servants, you aren't benefiting.

If you are LGBTQ+, you aren't benefiting. Heck, if you are in a mixed-race marriage, there's a chance you're going to be oppressed.

If you want to be able to cast a vote in a district that could go back to the other party if the one in power doesn't suit you, you aren't benefiting.

If you just want to be able to turn on the television and not have the chief executive say/do something completely out of left field because he feels he isn't getting enough attention, you aren't benefiting.

I feel dumb, because, to me, this all seems so obvious. It's not about loving Kamala Harris. It's about wanting even a halfway competent person willing to stand by the rule of law in the Oval Office. Like I said, I'm out of touch with America, though. He won in the form of a mandate.

I honestly think the problem is that the Democrats have had such a bad message... They have to take money from corporations in order to keep up with Republicans.

So they can't support real policy that is good for real people.

This was always going to be the outcome of Citizens United.

 

[bulls_with_booz]

They believe the lies that Trump tells - maybe not all of them all the time, but the important ones - immigrants are stealing your jobs and/or raping you, the economy is terrible, things were great when Trump was in office, etc. They would have believed Trump no matter who the opposing candidate was.

This is basically it in a nutshell. You're dealing with a population (at least enough to form a a majority) that believe the president controls the price of gas and groceries. Trump will just blindly lie about what tarrifs even are and what they do to a crowd of people who have phones in their pockets and can easily educate themselves on such basic shit but choose not to do so. It was a joke in 2016, a meme, that Hillary was "too smart to win" but I think it's a factor for the people on the left struggling with the 2024 post mortem. "Why is this idiot more persuasive than us?"...

 

[Phatguysrule]

You might be right about other candidates, I disagree but we'll never know for sure.

My current working theory is that we are simply outnumbered. The country has moved radically rightwards. The 2020 result masked this, because everything was such a shit-show at the end of Trump's first term, that enough people were motivated to vote for change, any change. That result made some of us think that Trump voters had seen the light, but we were obviously very much mistaken about that.

Some might say that it's a shit-show now because gas is $3.50 or pronouns or whatever. But that's not really true - the country is very clearly better off now than November 2020 by any rational measure. Could a better D candidate have convinced enough Trump voters of the truth of that? I'd say no (but, obviously, I can't prove that).

They believe the lies that Trump tells - maybe not all of them all the time, but the important ones - immigrants are stealing your jobs and/or raping you, the economy is terrible, things were great when Trump was in office, etc. They would have believed Trump no matter who the opposing candidate was.

barfo

I get your point. And maybe you're right. But Democrats don't really ever seem to come through on anything big. Everything is always half measures.

Unless you're basing your policy on slippery slopes and fear then the Democrats aren't really that much different than Republicans to most people.

Even Obamacare was the right wing healthcare solution. Obama was opposed to legalizing weed, until he wasn't. Obama was opposed to same-sex marriage until he wasn't. Record numbers of drone strikes.

And that's Obama. That's the most popular Democrat president I could really imagine.

And look what Clinton did. Look at how much deregulation we have from Clinton that's causing us so many freaking problems.

Fear only get you so far. After a while you become numb to the fear. And then it's not worth waiting in line for 7 hours to vote.

 

[THE HCP]

So will you guys set me straight here. HOW MANY AMERICANS DID NOT VOTE LAST NIGHT?

Also, it looks like TRUMP actually got 3 Million LESS votes this time, but the Harris received 15 million LESS? That is just baffling to me.

 

[PCmor7]

I honestly think the problem is that the Democrats have had such a bad message... They have to take money from corporations in order to keep up with Republicans.

So they can't support real policy that is good for real people.

This was always going to be the outcome of Citizens United.

I think maybe yes and no.

I think the Republicans can always hit them with that as being a sign of hypocrisy.

However, to me, at least, anyone with eyes and a brain should be able to discern that's the case, and, if their agenda helps the people more, why should the people care where the seed money comes from?

The Democrats are, IMO, held to a different standard. We've seen it here today. We have posters saying Democrats are intolerant for calling out intolerance when common sense should dictate who casts the first stone matters a lot.

There was no measurable standard that I can think of that should have made this election close, let along be such a decisive Republican victory.

There's a line in Sherlock Holmes were he tells Watson that when one has eliminated all the other possible answers the one that remains, no matter how incredible, must be the truth. My gut tells me that's what we have here. The reason center and left-wing candidates and policies have such a hard time getting traction here -- in a country that ironically was founded on the left -- is much more primal. It doesn't require a lot of analysis.

The answer is simple. We just don't want to say it out loud. And, if we do, we get called intolerant.

 

[PCmor7]

You might be right about other candidates, I disagree but we'll never know for sure.

My current working theory is that we are simply outnumbered. The country has moved radically rightwards. The 2020 result masked this, because everything was such a shit-show at the end of Trump's first term, that enough people were motivated to vote for change, any change. That result made some of us think that Trump voters had seen the light, but we were obviously very much mistaken about that.

Some might say that it's a shit-show now because gas is $3.50 or pronouns or whatever. But that's not really true - the country is very clearly better off now than November 2020 by any rational measure. Could a better D candidate have convinced enough Trump voters of the truth of that? I'd say no (but, obviously, I can't prove that).

They believe the lies that Trump tells - maybe not all of them all the time, but the important ones - immigrants are stealing your jobs and/or raping you, the economy is terrible, things were great when Trump was in office, etc. They would have believed Trump no matter who the opposing candidate was.

barfo

This.

It's about Americans themselves. Not the candidate. Not the message. Not the policies.

 

[Phatguysrule]

I think maybe yes and no.

I think the Republicans can always hit them with that as being a sign of hypocrisy.

However, to me, at least, anyone with eyes and a brain should be able to discern that's the case, and, if their agenda helps the people more, why should the people care where the seed money comes from?

The Democrats are, IMO, held to a different standard. We've seen it here today. We have posters saying Democrats are intolerant for calling out intolerance when common sense should dictate who case the first stone matters a lot.

There was no measurable standard that I can think of that should have made this election close, let along be such a decisive Republican victory.

There's a line in Sherlock Holmes were he tells Watson that when one has eliminated all the other possible answers the one that remains, no matter how incredible, must be the truth. My gut tells me that's what we have here. The reason center and left-wing candidates and policies have such a hard time getting traction here -- in a country that ironically was founded on the left -- is much more primal. It doesn't require a lot of analysis.

The answer is simple. We just don't want to say it out loud. And, if we do, we get called intolerant.

I don't think people pay close enough attention to know.

They base it on how they're feeling. A lot of people don't feel good right now. They don't understand the president doesn't control gas prices. They don't understand the president doesn't control grocery prices.

I think Democrats blaming Americans is just going to make more Americans vote for Republicans.

There is a platform in which government can prevent people from falling to destitution, which has full support for a minimum level of education up through and including college, and which also doesn't try to be overbearing and restrictive of the population.

And it can do all of that without allowing corporations to poison us. Or gangs to abuse us.

I'm frustrated that we do not have a candidate like this to choose from.

 

[barfo]

So will you guys set me straight here. HOW MANY AMERICANS DID NOT VOTE LAST NIGHT?

Also, it looks like TRUMP actually got 3 Million LESS votes this time, but the Harris received 15 million LESS? That is just baffling to me.

About 1/3rd of voting age people didn't vote. Not radically different from prior presidential elections.
Voting % was higher in some places (73% in OR), lower in some places (<50% in MS).

barfo

 

[PCmor7]

I'll throw something else out there that I haven't seen posted as another advantage the GOP will have and will use moving forward.

It will have complete control of the narrative.

We've already seen that with Trump's threats and several news agencies not endorsing a candidate in this election.

That's going to continue. It might be by paying them off. It might be by threatening them.

If people are struggling financially under Trump, don't expect to know it. Heck, don't expect the administration to put out figures that make things look bad in any way, and then don't expect journalists to take risks reporting it.

Don't expect to see if on social media without really digging, too. Those platforms have been co-opted.

If there's a big protest and the National Guard is called in and demonstrators are shot and die, you aren't going to know about it. There won't be Kent State moments.

And Americans will like that, because they want to feel good. They want to feel they made the right choice.

If you think the media is bad now, wait a couple of years. There won't be any investigative, center, or left-center outlets.

 

[BigGameDamian]

 

[bulls_with_booz]

I actually do hope Trump winning, Musk and X turn off enough left leaning people to grow alternative platforms...the right wing did a decent job of creating their own ecosystems -- Gab, 4chan, Bitchute, Telegram, Rumble etc. Mastodon had potential but in general the right was more prepared to build online communities when faced with censorship. A more underground, modern approach to influencing the conversation instead of Bezos owned websites with exaggerated reach and tone deaf, outdated celebrity endorsements is the way forward. Thankfully I think the corporate warhawk left is going to be forced to take a backseat or shrivel up and die.

https://www.freep.com/story/news/po...orn-and-makes-gains-in-hamtramck/76085841007/

 

[kjironman1]

So will you guys set me straight here. HOW MANY AMERICANS DID NOT VOTE LAST NIGHT?

Also, it looks like TRUMP actually got 3 Million LESS votes this time, but the Harris received 15 million LESS? That is just baffling to me.

That is exactly what happened. Democrats didn’t vote.

 

[jlprk]

In presidential elections after 1988, Republicans have won the popular vote in only 2004 and now 2024. It's rare.

 

[CJ_is_Gone]

About 1/3rd of voting age people didn't vote. Not radically different from prior presidential elections.
Voting % was higher in some places (73% in OR), lower in some places (<50% in MS).

barfo

Agreed that turnout is not radically different from prior elections.

But there is an easy explanation for Harris' poor performance...