Official Around the NBA - February Edition

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KingSpeed said:
Wow.
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That was Wilt's final NBA season at the age of 36. Although he is most remembered for his ridiculous numbers early in his career, even at the end of his career, Wilt was a force to be reckoned with. He won the finals MVP at age 35 and at age 36, not only did he set the all time record for FG%, he also led the league in rebounding (18.6 rpg), played all 82 games and averaged over 43MPG, was an all star, 1st team all-defense and second in the entire league in Win Shares and came in 4th in MVP voting.

BNM
 
Boob-No-More said:
No, if he keeps it up, he'll tie the record of .727 by Wilt in 1972-73.

You seem to overlook the fact that Jordan is only shooting .396 from the FT line and barely averaging double figures in scoring. It's easy to have a high FG% when most of your shots come from within 2 feet of the basket.

BNM
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You may also be overlooking the fact that despite his atrocious FT%, he's still 3rd in the league in TS%, while also leading the league in rebounding (for the 2nd consecutive year) and is 2nd in blocks, with a PER over 20 while having a usage rate just over 12. He's basically the most productive non-scorer in the league. I agree with KS--he deserves to be an all-star.
 
Not a fan of Jordan. He's a garbageman who does basically nothing else but put back missed shot attempts. Looking at his shots dashboard on NBA.com, only .3 % of his shot attempts are catch and shoots and zero are pull-up jumpers. 86% of his shots he doesn't dribble at all and another 10.5% he only takes one dribble.
http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/201599/tracking/shots/

Compare that with Mark Gasol. Yeah, he's only making about half of his shot attempts, but he's an active part of the offense. 30.5% of his shots are of the catch and shoot variety and another 10% are pull-ups. He's skilled enough that he can put the ball on the floor to improve his position on about a third of his shots.
http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/201188/tracking/shots/
 
Boob-No-More said:
That was Wilt's final NBA season at the age of 36. Although he is most remembered for his ridiculous numbers early in his career, even at the end of his career, Wilt was a force to be reckoned with. He won the finals MVP at age 35 and at age 36, not only did he set the all time record for FG%, he also led the league in rebounding (18.6 rpg), played all 82 games and averaged over 43MPG, was an all star, 1st team all-defense and second in the entire league in Win Shares and came in 4th in MVP voting.

BNM
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By the way--I was looking up details of Wilt's 20-20-20 game last week, and I came across this thread in another forum. You should read the posts by the poster "jlauber". I could swear you two are the same person.
 
e_blazer said:
Not a fan of Jordan. He's a garbageman who does basically nothing else but put back missed shot attempts. Looking at his shots dashboard on NBA.com, only .3 % of his shot attempts are catch and shoots and zero are pull-up jumpers. 86% of his shots he doesn't dribble at all and another 10.5% he only takes one dribble.
http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/201599/tracking/shots/

Compare that with Mark Gasol. Yeah, he's only making about half of his shot attempts, but he's an active part of the offense. 30.5% of his shots are of the catch and shoot variety and another 10% are pull-ups. He's skilled enough that he can put the ball on the floor to improve his position on about a third of his shots.
http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/201188/tracking/shots/
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I don't think anyone here or anywhere else is going to argue that DJ is a better player than Marc Gasol. It doesn't make him an unvaluable player though.
 
B-Roy said:
I don't think anyone here or anywhere else is going to argue that DJ is a better player than Marc Gasol. It doesn't make him an unvaluable player though.
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I didn't say he wasn't valuable, KS said he thought he should be an All Star because of his FG%, which I don't buy because his game is so incomplete. Garbarge men are useful, but they're not All Stars.
 
Boob-No-More said:
No, if he keeps it up, he'll tie the record of .727 by Wilt in 1972-73.

You seem to overlook the fact that Jordan is only shooting .396 from the FT line and barely averaging double figures in scoring. It's easy to have a high FG% when most of your shots come from within 2 feet of the basket.

BNM
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...and you are 7-feet tall.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
You may also be overlooking the fact that despite his atrocious FT%, he's still 3rd in the league in TS%, while also leading the league in rebounding (for the 2nd consecutive year) and is 2nd in blocks, with a PER over 20 while having a usage rate just over 12. He's basically the most productive non-scorer in the league. I agree with KS--he deserves to be an all-star.
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Sorry, gotta disagree. That makes him a great role player, but not an all-star IMHO.

Because he blocks shots, his defense is overrated. He's not J.J. Hickson bad, but his net production (according to 82games.com) is only 4th best on his own team and he gets outscored by 6.2 PTS/48 by his opponents - which is pretty bad when you consider there aren't exactly a lot of great scoring centers in the league right now.

BNM
 
So I want to watch the philly/GS game.

It's Washington/Orlando. wtf LP?
 
As an example of how bad Jordan's defense is, in spite of all the blocked shots, here's Opponent's Scoring, from best to worst, in PTS/48 (from 82games.com) for the starting centers on all the Western Conference playoff teams (as of today):

Opponent's Scoring (PTS/48 minutes):
Marc Gasol: 14.8
Robin Lopez: 16.5
Dwight Howard: 17.8
Tyson Chandler: 18.2
Tiago Splitter: 18.8
Andrew Bogut: 19.1
Alex Len: 19.6
DeAndre Jordan 20.8

BNM
 
Boob-No-More said:
Sorry, gotta disagree. That makes him a great role player, but not an all-star IMHO.

Because he blocks shots, his defense is overrated. He's not J.J. Hickson bad, but his net production (according to 82games.com) is only 4th best on his own team and he gets outscored by 6.2 PTS/48 by his opponents - which is pretty bad when you consider there aren't exactly a lot of great scoring centers in the league right now.

BNM
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So does one have to be a scorer to deserve to be an all-star? If not, what else outside of scoring can justify an all-star berth?
 
e_blazer said:
I didn't say he wasn't valuable, KS said he thought he should be an All Star because of his FG%, which I don't buy because his game is so incomplete. Garbarge men are useful, but they're not All Stars.
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Rodman and Shaq were also very incomplete players, yet also two of the best to ever play the game.
 
http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on...ns-shares-awesome-larry-bird-trash-talk-story

“One of the first times I ever played against him, I went out for the opening tip and I went to shake his hand. He just stood there and looked at me stone-faced with his hands behind his back,” Wilkins said recently.

“I was like, ‘Whoa.' Then we were getting ready for the tip and he says to me, ‘You don't belong in this league, Homes.' I couldn't believe it, but it happened so fast, I didn't know what to think.

“Then they had the ball and I was on him and he said, ‘I don't know why they got you guarding me, Homes. You can't guard me.' Then, whap, he hit a 3. Then he came down again and said, ‘They made a mistake putting you on me, Homes,' and he took another 3.”

Getting into the story, Wilkins began to act things out with his facial expressions.

“So now I'm hot,” he said. “I'm hot. I mean, I'm steaming.

“Then a little while later, I came down on a break and he was backpedaling. I just went right after him. I jumped up and he tried to challenge, but I took that right through the rim. He fell and hit the basket support.

“He got up and said, ‘I like you, rookie. You've got(guts).' I was happy for a second, and then he said, ‘But I'm still going for 40 on you tonight.' ”

He then paused the story, stepped back and smiled.

“But I got him,” Wilkins said. “He only scored 39.”
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NBA will shorten the season sooner rather than later. So many freaking injuries this season. DAL without Ellis and Chandler for the rest of the game. Chandler = Ankle; Ellis = ???
 
Strenuus said:
They don't care. They really have nothing to lose. Losing a game means nothing to them. I still stand by it.
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I never said they didn't want to lose it...it's just something they CAN lose
 
riverman said:
I never said they didn't want to lose it...it's just something they CAN lose
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Losses to them are just a fact, in the grand scheme of things is what I'm talking about. The loss means nothing but a number to them, so in turn they have nothing to lose.

That outside the box thinking, man! :ghoti:
 
Strenuus said:
Losses to them are just a fact, in the grand scheme of things is what I'm talking about. The loss means nothing but a number to them, so in turn they have nothing to lose.

That outside the box thinking, man! :ghoti:
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That outside the box thing has gotten many a coach fired
 
PtldPlatypus said:
So does one have to be a scorer to deserve to be an all-star? If not, what else outside of scoring can justify an all-star berth?
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Simple, to justify an all-star berth, you need to be better than somebody else who made the team. In other words, who would you leave off this year's team to give DeAndre Jordan an all-star berth?

Marc Gasol? Hell no. He's not just better that Jordan, he's >>>>> Jordan. Go back and look at the stats I posted on Jordan. Of the top 8 teams in the West, he's the worst defensive center (yeah, there's a lot more to defense than blocking shots). The player he's guarding scores 20.8 PTS/48. The player Gasol is guarding (same guys Jordan guards) only average 14.8 PTS/48. Jordan gets outscored by his man by 6.2 PTS/48. Gasol outscores his man by 11.5 PTS/48. That's a difference of +17.7 PTS/48 in Gasol's favor. That's a HUGE difference.

Yes, Jordan does other things besides score, but so does Gasol. If you look at total net production, Jordan does have a +5.5 Net Production (according to 82games.com). So, he's not hurting his team. He's just not helping them as much as Gasol helps his team (+11.2 Net Production).

OK, nobody really thought you (or Kingspeed) was lobbying to replace Gasol with Jordan. So, let's look at the other Western Conference all-star centers.

DeMarcus Cousins outscores his man by 13.0 PTS/48 and also has a higher Net Production (+8.7) than Jordan.

Tim Duncan (yes, he's playing MUCH more center than PF this year) outscores his man by 4.0 PTS/48 and also has a greater Net Production (+6.4) than Jordan.

You could also do the same exercise for the Western Conference power forwards, but the results would be the same (I mean seriously, who would pick DeAndre Jordan over Anthony Davis, LaMarcus Aldridge of Blake Griffin?). All the big men who made the all-star team are more deserving than Jordan, all but perhaps Duncan (but he IS Timmy Fucking Duncan), by a WIDE margin. It's as simple as that.

On a more general level, for a low-scoring role player to make the all-star team, he needs to be the VERY best at one, or two, other aspects of the game. I've already shown that Jordan is not very good at scoring and also not very good at keeping his man from scoring - in fact, he's awful at it. I already showed he's dead last on opponents' scoring among the starting centers for the top 8 teams in the Western Conference. Well, I just checked the other Western Conference teams and, according to the stats at 82games.com, DeAndre Jordan allows his opponents to score more PTS/48 than any other starting center in the entire Western Conference. He also has the worst net scoring differential among Western Conference starting centers (well, other than Kendrick Perkins who was just forced into the starting center role yesterday when Steven Adams had surgery on his hand).

Someone mentioned Rodman earlier in this thread. DeAndre Jordan isn't Dennis Rodman. Not even close. Rodman is a Hall of Famer with 5 NBA titles and the greatest rebounder in the history of the game (1st in career TRB% and 7 of the 8 highest TRB% seasons in the history of the NBA) . He was also 2-time DPOY and made 1st team All-Defense 7 times. He may have been the greatest role player in the history of the game. And, in spite of all that, Dennis Rodman only made the all-star team twice. DeAndre Jordan can't hold Dennis Rodman's jock. He has ZERO rings, ZERO DPOY awards has never even been 3rd team All-Defense, let alone 1st team, and not surprisingly (to me, at least) he has ZERO all-star appearances.

A low-scoring role player CAN make the all-star team, but DeAndre Jordan is NOT that player.

BNM
 
Anyone catch Cweb say he would be surprised if Howard comes back this season. Also said the injury, according to the doctor looks more severe than what's said publicly.

The injection is what's called "a last ditch effort"
 
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