wizenheimer
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Official Around the NBA May 2019 Playoff Edition Thread!
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blue9
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Meyers is an excellent outlet passer. And an outlet pass is a much faster way to advance the ball than having the rebounder bring the ball up-court. The problem is there's never anyone to pass to - the guard (whoever it is, but Dame more than CJ) almost always circles back to the rebounder to accept a hand-off pass. Part of the problem is that Moe/Aminu can't dribble well enough to lead a break - perhaps if we had average/above average ball-handling at either of those positions we would push more? I have my doubts, but it could help.
kjironman1
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Here ya go.
Lillard was always considered Pick n Roll. Transition was never in the cards.
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Damian-Lillard-6152/
dviss1
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This.
Dame most CERTAINLY is capable of pushing the ball up.
It's Coach.
Acting like he can't because he hasn't flies in the face of reality. I fully believe Terry Stotts is the reason.
We do SECONDARY break stuff all the time.
TorturedBlazerFan
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How does acting like he can when he hasnt work in reality though?
dviss1
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He has. This season. He's capable. You saying he hasn't pushed it up is just factually incorrect.
TorturedBlazerFan
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He has never consistently pushed the ball up that I can remember. Sure he's maybe done that a play here or there but, it has never been a big part of his game in the NBA as far as I can remember. I'm saying he hasn't ever done that consistently, it could be coaching, it could be that he's just not comfortable doing that, I don't know.
e_blazer
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I agree with dviss1 that he has done it at times this season. That, plus the handles he shows on his drives in the paint in traffic, certainly indicate that he can be a guy who can push the ball up quickly. I think we have to assume that it's Stotts' offensive style, maybe coupled with what Dame likes to do as a point guard, that keeps the pace slow.
dviss1
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I never said consistently.
1st play: Fast Break score
3rd play: Fast Break score
1:48 Fast Break assist
2:00 Fast Break assist
Very next play Fast Break Assist
3:26 Pushes ball up, makes correct pass and then catches an oop on what...? The fast break..
3:33 Transition off of a turnover = Fast break Dunk
kjironman1
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This is probably why i usually stay away from S2 in the off season.
Every evaluation on Damian Lillard had him as a Pick n Roll half court PG that was not a transition fast break style of player.
He is what he is. A good coach doesn't try to make a player something he isn't and never has been.
Even crazier is people on here are bashing Stotts for doing what is right and playing to his franchise players strengths.
Lillard is not and will never be a fast break transition style player. It's not the coach. It's the player.
You want fast pace and transition style play then you better start asking to trade Damian Lillard because you will never see it with him as your PG.
TorturedBlazerFan
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I never said he was completely incapable of ever pushing the ball though, but it's never been a huge part of his game in the NBA, you say that's all coaching? You might be right, but I don't see him try to a ton, and it's not a knock on him he's really good in the half court.
kjironman1
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So you are basing your whole argument on a MIX TAPE of plays from his entire college career that gives you 5 or 6 highlight breaks?
I guarantee i can come up with hours upon hours of tape that will show you a different style player.
dviss1
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Dude... You're not paying attention.
There is no Draft Express Breakdown video anymore. This has been said. Please keep up.
In that video it specifically stated that Damian lillard was getting over 1pt per possession on the fast break.
Sooo YOU do some damn research before you talk please.
kjironman1
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You are being way way too nice here. believe your eyes and what you have witnessed for his entire career. How many games have you watched.
Lillard doesn't push the ball. It's that simple.
dviss1
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TorturedBlazerFan
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I should be clear with my thoughts on this. I think Dame's "Capable" of pushing the ball up the floor here or there. I don't believe I've seen him make that a consistent part of his game in the NBA. Is there a chance that's 100% all on Stotts? Sure. I tend to think it's at least partially on Dame to just do it more... Especially if the coach is yelling at him to run, it's not 100% Stotts fault to me. Now Dviss might be right a new coach and maybe it becomes a much more consistent part of his game, I have no idea.
dviss1
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No it's called a rational debate between two respectful humans.
Stop telling people how to behave...
TorturedBlazerFan
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I mean you might be right, and maybe when I said I put it on "Dame" that was being to harsh, I don't believe it to be 100% on Stotts though. I do think Dame is capable of it here and there, I just have never seen him do that consistently and think he's partially to blame for it. Might be all coaching, but that's not my opinion on it. Now I will try to be open-minded enough that you /others can convince me it's 100% Stotts if that's the case you want to make, I'll listen.
kjironman1
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What the actual fuck are you even talking about. I just posted the entire writeup on Lillard from Draftexpress. Every writeup talked about pick n roll. Not a transition type player.
Don't tell me what i have to do. It is your ass that needs to research. Or do i need to post it again for you.
Lillard is and always will be a half court Pick n Roll type PG. Seriously how are we even having this discussion.
Here ya go it right here for you to read-
http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Damian-Lillard-6152/
My Research is more than complete.
wizenheimer
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that's the thumbnail scouting report DE left after they folded. Their full scouting report on Lillard was a couple of pages long.
kjironman1
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Here i'll dig em out for you-
"The most efficient guard in pick and roll (1.039 PP), spot-up (1.388), and isolation off screen situations (1.324), Lillard dominates most categories in this study. Perhaps the most impressive aspect of Lillard's showing on paper is the paltry 9.8% turnover rate he posted despite teams game planning to stop him on a nightly basis. Just an average finisher (1.127 PPP), making plays at the rim in traffic may be Lillard's biggest challenge at the next level, but his ability to score in a variety of ways from the perimeter should be him a valuable asset to whichever team drafts him. - Source: http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Damian-Lillard-6152/ ©DraftExpress"
"The large emphasis of the pick-and-roll game in today's NBA bodes well for Lillard, as he's shown to be very effective as the ball-handler in pick-and-roll situations. His ability to smoothly pull up off the dribble from deep range makes it difficult for his defenders to go underneath the screen, while his burst off the dribble allows him to turn the corner quickly and get into the paint. - Source: http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Damian-Lillard-6152/ ©DraftExpress"
"Lillard still hasn't shown a great deal in terms of pure playmaking ability, but he looks to have nice passing instincts on dribble penetration, and his role at Weber State calls for him to be their primary scorer, so it's tough to get a gauge of just how much of a distributor he might be in a different situation. This might be the biggest question he faces as enters the draft process, as he's clearly not big enough to play any other position besides point guard. As a defender, Lillard is showing much of what we've already seen from him in the past, moving well laterally and utilizing his length to play intense on-the-ball defense. He'd have a huge adjustment to make to defending NBA point guards full-time, though, as it's apparent he can lose his focus from time to time, after expending so much energy on the offensive end. - Source: http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Damian-Lillard-6152/ ©DraftExpress"
"Looking at Lillard's dribble drive game as a whole, there is much to be impressed with, ranging from his well-developed handle with both hands, his ability to change directions with ease in the lane, and his general awareness and tendency to always keep his head up with the ball. On the down side, however, despite a solid first step, Lillard doesn't stand out very much with his second or third gear, not often showing the ability to take it to the next level the way elite guards do. To his credit, his solid height and excellent length allow him to make up for this somewhat in the finishing department, where he does a good job scoring over (or going through) the competition, while also showing flashes of a developing floater that would further take advantage of his size. - Source: http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Damian-Lillard-6152/ ©DraftExpress"
These are facts. Don't try to tell people to get their research done unless you are willing to get your own done as well.
"The most efficient guard in pick and roll (1.039 PP), spot-up (1.388), and isolation off screen situations (1.324), Lillard dominates most categories in this study. Perhaps the most impressive aspect of Lillard's showing on paper is the paltry 9.8% turnover rate he posted despite teams game planning to stop him on a nightly basis. Just an average finisher (1.127 PPP), making plays at the rim in traffic may be Lillard's biggest challenge at the next level, but his ability to score in a variety of ways from the perimeter should be him a valuable asset to whichever team drafts him. - Source: http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Damian-Lillard-6152/ ©DraftExpress"
"The large emphasis of the pick-and-roll game in today's NBA bodes well for Lillard, as he's shown to be very effective as the ball-handler in pick-and-roll situations. His ability to smoothly pull up off the dribble from deep range makes it difficult for his defenders to go underneath the screen, while his burst off the dribble allows him to turn the corner quickly and get into the paint. - Source: http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Damian-Lillard-6152/ ©DraftExpress"
"Lillard still hasn't shown a great deal in terms of pure playmaking ability, but he looks to have nice passing instincts on dribble penetration, and his role at Weber State calls for him to be their primary scorer, so it's tough to get a gauge of just how much of a distributor he might be in a different situation. This might be the biggest question he faces as enters the draft process, as he's clearly not big enough to play any other position besides point guard. As a defender, Lillard is showing much of what we've already seen from him in the past, moving well laterally and utilizing his length to play intense on-the-ball defense. He'd have a huge adjustment to make to defending NBA point guards full-time, though, as it's apparent he can lose his focus from time to time, after expending so much energy on the offensive end. - Source: http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Damian-Lillard-6152/ ©DraftExpress"
"Looking at Lillard's dribble drive game as a whole, there is much to be impressed with, ranging from his well-developed handle with both hands, his ability to change directions with ease in the lane, and his general awareness and tendency to always keep his head up with the ball. On the down side, however, despite a solid first step, Lillard doesn't stand out very much with his second or third gear, not often showing the ability to take it to the next level the way elite guards do. To his credit, his solid height and excellent length allow him to make up for this somewhat in the finishing department, where he does a good job scoring over (or going through) the competition, while also showing flashes of a developing floater that would further take advantage of his size. - Source: http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Damian-Lillard-6152/ ©DraftExpress"
These are facts. Don't try to tell people to get their research done unless you are willing to get your own done as well.
kjironman1
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That is not a thumbnail report. Look again. It has 5 different reports and they all say the same thing.
On top of that i was here and well into the report from more than just draft express. Every report known to man had Lillard as a half court PG.
blue9
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Totally agree with you - I think the lack of it is shared equally between Terry and Dame. I'm not sure which one it started with, but at this point neither of them put much importance on the fast break.
TorturedBlazerFan
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For what it's worth https://www.nbadraft.net/players/damian-lillard
Has some comments on his transition game.
Aggressive in transition, always looking to make something happen ... Is one guys take. Listed as a strength.
Makes better decisions in the half court than full. Will need to become better on the break … Another guys take, listed as a weakness.
Has some comments on his transition game.
Aggressive in transition, always looking to make something happen ... Is one guys take. Listed as a strength.
Makes better decisions in the half court than full. Will need to become better on the break … Another guys take, listed as a weakness.
kjironman1
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That's it for me on this subject. Lillard is who he is.
You guys can dissect Stotts for the next 3 months without me about why he doesn't make players do things they don't do.
Hope you enjoy it.
You guys can dissect Stotts for the next 3 months without me about why he doesn't make players do things they don't do.
Hope you enjoy it.
dviss1
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You don't have the video breakdown to which I'm referring. You don't have the stats either.
kjironman1
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It was literally every draft report out there for the most part.
kjironman1
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Okay. No video. No stats. Sure.
dviss1
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It's the only reason you're opening your mouth on this subject.
IDGAF if they rehired him or not. I don't like Stotts style of play on O or D. MFs can say what they want about him without you always getting butthurt. Seriously...
Ask yourself this smart guy, did the Mavericks championship team fast break?
Yeah.. No... Not even with Jason Kidd at the helm.