"OFFICIAL" Around the NBA - November Thread

[magnifier661]

"OFFICIAL" Around the NBA season Thread

Guess what, Harden doesn't average 18 FTA per game either, neither has he ever averaged that many FTA. Jordan is 5th all time in total FTs taken...Jordan went to the line a ton, only guys who had more trips to the line are Big O, Kobe, Moses Malone, and Karl Malone.

How many flop warnings did Jordan get?

 

[Boise Blazer]

Re: "OFFICIAL" Around the NBA season Thread

Guess what, Harden doesn't average 18 FTA per game either, neither has he ever averaged that many FTA. Jordan is 5th all time in total FTs taken...Jordan went to the line a ton, only guys who had more trips to the line are Big O, Kobe, Moses Malone, and Karl Malone.

Oh come on! Don't do a disservice to yourself and compare free throw attempts from Jordan to Harden. I am more than willing to admit that Harden is a good or even great player. Why is it so hard for you to admit that the free throw attempts with Harden are out of control?

 

[Superbeard]

Re: "OFFICIAL" Around the NBA season Thread

I guess this is where my comment about each person is welcome to their own opinion comes in because that is nuts. I can't recall Lopez being labeled as a flopper. Not to say he never has but then again every player has.

But if you don't believe me then go to Google and search for Robin Lopez flopping. What did you find? Not much if anything. Now go ahead search for James Harden flopping. I'll be here in a few hours when you are done reading through them all.

If you think that a center like Lopez's post defense is killing the game more than Harden's flopping and excessive fouls then there is no point in discussing/arguing this any further because your homer level is off the charts.

Because flopping and selling the post offensive charge is seen as normal and is even taught now. A few clips about a Harden flop does not prove that he then flops on most of his shots. That's the point.

So how many of those clips are flops where he actually has the ball? Which is again missing the point, that he gets the majority of his whistles driving into the paint. Getting a offball whistle while flopping on a screen doesn't even result in FTs all the time...

Oh come on! Don't do a disservice to yourself and compare free throw attempts from Jordan to Harden. I am more than willing to admit that Harden is a good or even great player. Why is it so hard for you to admit that the free throw attempts with Harden are out of control?

The only comparision here is that guys that slash the lane with ease get a lot of whistles. IF you look at the FTA for star players like Lebron and Jordan you see the comparison there, both were guys that attacked the rim whenever they wanted to.

Is Harden that level of player, no...but he does attack the rim...A LOT. His shot chart reveals this in cold blooded numbers.

Guys who attack the rim get a lot of whistles. Some nights the refs get a little happy and call every touch and some nights they don't.

How many flop warnings did Jordan get?

0 because there was no such thing as flop warnings then.

 

[THE HCP]

Re: "OFFICIAL" Around the NBA season Thread

Is this clown saying Jordan flopped? Man, he took it to the rack strong on the regular and got leveled to the ground. He EARNED his damn free throws.

 

[magnifier661]

Re: "OFFICIAL" Around the NBA season Thread

The only comparision here is that guys that slash the lane with ease get a lot of whistles. IF you look at the FTA for star players like Lebron and Jordan you see the comparison there, both were guys that attacked the rim whenever they wanted to.

The greatest player to ever play the game http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html averaged 8.2 FTA per game.

James Harden is averaging 12.8 FTA per game this season. The attempts are out of control. He's a notorious flopper that has been warned by the league on several occasions. Only a myopic Houston fan would try and defend him.

 

[riverman]

Re: "OFFICIAL" Around the NBA season Thread

Flopping looks a lot worse now that hand checking is not allowed. Jerry Sloan as a player was a master at the flop before they even called it that. He coached it to perfection

 

[Boise Blazer]

Re: "OFFICIAL" Around the NBA season Thread

Damn, I tried to warn myself before that it was a pointless discussion with you and you successfully pulled me right back in. Well done. If Harden's play is what makes you happy as a fan then more power to you. Good luck to your team this year.

 

[Superbeard]

Re: "OFFICIAL" Around the NBA season Thread

Is this clown saying Jordan flopped? Man, he took it to the rack strong on the regular and got leveled to the ground. He EARNED his damn free throws.

Ummm...Harden also is leveled many times per game. Not sure what your point is here. My point isn't that Jordan flopped, my point is that he drove into the lane a lot and thus received a lot of FTs.

The greatest player to ever play the game http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html averaged 8.2 FTA per game.

James Harden is averaging 12.8 FTA per game this season. The attempts are out of control. He's a notorious flopper that has been warned by the league on several occasions. Only a myopic Houston fan would try and defend him.

Don't worry, he's not going to average 13 FTAs per game. Jordan had years where he averaged over 10 FTAs per game though and all of the best slashers average around and above 8 FTAs per game like Harden does.

Although he doesn't take as many useless stepback 3s so far any more so he may average around 9-10 this year. Still who knows, some nights refs call every thing and some nights they call nothing.

Flopping looks a lot worse now that hand checking is not allowed. Jerry Sloan as a player was a master at the flop before they even called it that. He coached it to perfection

That's certainly true, they still did flop back then too. The NBA was so physical back then though so yeah it was easier to get away with it.

Damn, I tried to warn myself before that it was a pointless discussion with you and you successfully pulled me right back in. Well done. If Harden's play is what makes you happy as a fan then more power to you. Good luck to your team this year.

It is pretty pointless, no one can prove that the flops he takes even result in FTs much less to say that the majority of his points come off flopping is quite frankly disrespectful to how skilled a player he is. Saying that the majority of his points come off flopping is unproven and simply not true. If it was true, then teams would not double him...what would be the point then?

 

[HomerLovesKoolAid]

Re: "OFFICIAL" Around the NBA season Thread

Give it up Tex. Harden is the biggest flopper in the NBA, and thus, a cheater. It's obvious and everyone knows it.
What's worse is that he'll disappear when it really matters, when guys like Lillard do not.

 

[magnifier661]

Re: "OFFICIAL" Around the NBA season Thread

Don't worry, he's not going to average 13 FTAs per game. Jordan had years where he averaged over 10 FTAs per game though and all of the best slashers average around and above 8 FTAs per game like Harden does.

Although he doesn't take as many useless stepback 3s so far any more so he may average around 9-10 this year. Still who knows, some nights refs call every thing and some nights they call nothing.

So then you admit that Harden is getting to the line "WAY TOO MUCH" so far this season. Thanks for playing.. We can move on now.

 

[Rhal]

Re: "OFFICIAL" Around the NBA season Thread

If it was just the Blazers fan base calling Harden a flopper and no one else this would be one thing but its EVERY fan base and the media that talks about his flopping all the time. Its a legit skill because it gets him to the line, Harden has mastered it to the point that Wade had 4 years ago, his ability to control his body and make it look like any contact is a full blown body check gets him to the line more then him actually being fouled. No one is saying he doesn't get some FT's from actual fouls but its that he gets so many of his FT's from being like those "wacky inflatable arm flailing tube man".
Now getting mad and calling Lopez a flopper is just ridiculous. Lopez hardly flops and he sure as hell didn't flop that much against Howard, he fell a few times but when you have the strongest man in the NBA pushing you around no matter who you are sometimes you are just going to go down.

 

[Superbeard]

Re: "OFFICIAL" Around the NBA season Thread

Give it up Tex. Harden is the biggest flopper in the NBA, and thus, a cheater. It's obvious and everyone knows it.
What's worse is that he'll disappear when it really matters, when guys like Lillard do not.

What about that game...nah nevermind.

So then you admit that Harden is getting to the line "WAY TOO MUCH" so far this season. Thanks for playing.. We can move on now.

No, just that only 5 games have been played so numbers are skewed right now. He'll have nights where he won't get to the line too and nights where he will go because of how different refs call games differently naturally.

If it was just the Blazers fan base calling Harden a flopper and no one else this would be one thing but its EVERY fan base and the media that talks about his flopping all the time. Its a legit skill because it gets him to the line, Harden has mastered it to the point that Wade had 4 years ago, his ability to control his body and make it look like any contact is a full blown body check gets him to the line more then him actually being fouled. No one is saying he doesn't get some FT's from actual fouls but its that he gets so many of his FT's from being like those "wacky inflatable arm flailing tube man".
Now getting mad and calling Lopez a flopper is just ridiculous. Lopez hardly flops and he sure as hell didn't flop that much against Howard, he fell a few times but when you have the strongest man in the NBA pushing you around no matter who you are sometimes you are just going to go down.

There is a difference though and saying a guy is a flopper and saying that his game is dictated on that. His game is dictated on slashing. Not flopping, it's just that slashing nets you a lot of FTs. The way you stop Harden is to keep him from slashing, otherwise you are giving up FTs or Layups. This is why Paul George has good games against Harden and Harden has terrible nights against PG. Not because he can't get fouls, but because he can't even really get into the lane like he's used to and is regulated to shooting 3s and he's a streaky shooter any ways.

Chris Paul, Manu, Blake Griffin...floppers...but that does not mean their game is built around that. Also, I disagree that many fanbases say that his game is built around flopping, I do lurk a lot of forums and I don't see it many places. Yeah people say he's a dirty flopper and meh I don't care, every team has floppers...but they can still respect that he's the best SG in the NBA. The Miami fans last night "Harden is a beast..." and "Unstoppable." and "Harden vastly outplayed Wade." and you can still say he's a flopper. But this idea that he's manufactured and that he can't score without going to the line just isn't true. My point is that driving the lane isn't flopping to me.

Also, I don't watch Robin Lopez every night so I don't know. I do watch Howard every night and I watched Yao every night and it does piss me off how many guys...stretch 4s no less, get away with guarding Howard by falling down and flailing around. But there was just a time where being weak in the post and overpowered just meant bad luck for you. So when I see guys fall down and it's something Rocket fans see every night...He even got a foul for posting up on a guard, guard falls down...offensive foul. Refs punished him for being stronger against a guard...as if there was any other result in him being guarded by a guard. I just wish they would go back to if you weren't strong enough to guard the opposing post player, you pay for that. Not force a power post player like Dwight to learn moves like Hakeem because that's never going to happen. But rant on that over.

 

[Natebishop3]

Re: "OFFICIAL" Around the NBA season Thread

If you say so man, how is your post not biased? Do you have any proof of what you say? Just that he averages 18 FTA per game(He doesn't) says nothing, just like saying that Harden played great defense last year because he got a few steals per game said nothing about his defense. It's funny because Miami fans that actually watched the game said nothing about flopping. So when did he flop in the previous game?

18 FTA per game isn't even accurate right now, and Michael Jordan averaged more FTA per game so I guess he was also a manufactured star. Lebron James as well...manufactured star...and Kobe Bryant as well...all Manufactured stars...

Or there is one thing they all have in common with James Harden...they all drive the lane a lot (except for Kobe at times) which nets you a lot of FTs.




Do you as a fan enjoy watching centers like Robin Lopez play post defense on Dwight by flopping? There is a reason why low post offense is disappearing in the NBA, and it's not because there are less skilled centers. It's because players like Robin Lopez whose idea of post defense against stronger opponents is to get the other guy in foul trouble by falling down when the stronger player backs him down. Which is why guys like Al Jefferson succeed because he's a finesse big men on offense, if you bring power to the post nowadays it is a foul, thanks to the refs rewarding guys like Robin Lopez when they fall back flail their arms instead of actually establishing a good base and keeping their man from backing them into the paint. That's disgusting to me, man up and play defense like they did in the 90s. Keep a strong base and keep your man out of the paint.

But Harden simply slashing into the lane is an affront to the game now. Not how the NBA has made the power center an extinct species now. Now tall lanky guys and stretch 4s play centers now.

I didn't say he is averaging 18 fta I said he got 18 fta which he did a couple games ago.

Listen, if you can't see it I'm not going to try to explain it to you. The guy has been fined for flopping. He's one of the worst offenders in the league. If you can't see it, that's on you.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[riverman]

Re: "OFFICIAL" Around the NBA season Thread

Flop or no flop, Michael Jordan got more superstar calls than anyone in history. MJ could scream at refs and rarley get T'd up or ejected from a game. He was such a marketing giant for the NBA that he'd stay on the court no matter what he did. MJ traveled, palmed the ball and got away with a lot but he was showtime and he was great fun to watch. Payton said it best, they don't let you play defense anymore. The game has changed. Charles Oakley would have fouled out in the first quarter of the modern game

 

[BlazerDuckSeahawkFan94]

Re: "OFFICIAL" Around the NBA season Thread

I watched the Blazers game last night on the Cavs broadcast and I have to say, those guys are pretty good imo. Not too homerish.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Re: "OFFICIAL" Around the NBA season Thread

Sounds like someone needs to familiarize themselves with "The Jordan Rules".

No, Harden is not "leveled several times a game". Just because he spends so much time falling down does not mean he gets leveled. The way the Pistons used to tackle Jordan on every drive would be considered flagrant fouls in today's NBA (unnecessary and excessive contact). Chuck Daley told his players that every time Jordan drove the lane, he was to get knocked on his ass, that sooner or later he'd get tired of it and stop driving. That's the exact opposite of James Harden's situation. He doesn't fear getting knocked on his ass, he LOVES to drive the lane because if anyone even breathes on him he can flail about and get an automatic two FTs.

Watching James Harden play makes me nostalgic for the way the NBA used to be played.

BNM

 

[BBert]

Re: "OFFICIAL" Around the NBA season Thread

Durant led the league last year at 9.9/gm. Harden going in game 5 was averaging 13.5/gm and already has 10 at half. It's a little out of control at this point.

It's a complete farce. Every non-Houston fan all over the county is disgusted by it. But the NBA doesn't care.

 

[BBert]

Re: "OFFICIAL" Around the NBA season Thread

Telfair just swung an open fist at Hansbrough.

It's Hansbrough. He probably warranted it.

 

[BBert]

Re: "OFFICIAL" Around the NBA season Thread

[TWEET]529819980024786944[/TWEET]

That is great!

 

[HomerLovesKoolAid]

Re: "OFFICIAL" Around the NBA season Thread

It's a complete farce. Every non-Houston fan all over the county is disgusted by it. But the NBA doesn't care.

Can you imagine if that was your team? You had to root for the Sprockets? Barf. I'd start watching women's curling.

 

[BrianFromWA]

Re: "OFFICIAL" Around the NBA season Thread

You can do that anyway, but the Scotties Tournament of Hearts is still a couple of months away...

Scotties Tournament of Hearts - Feb. 14 to Feb. 22 (Moose Jaw, SK)

World Women's Championship - March 14 to March 22 (Sapporo, Japan)

The Players' Championship - April 7 to April 15 (Toronto, ONT)

Team Jones is the favorite so far, but Team Homan and Team Muirhead aren't far behind.

 

[Superbeard]

Re: "OFFICIAL" Around the NBA season Thread

Flop or no flop, Michael Jordan got more superstar calls than anyone in history. MJ could scream at refs and rarley get T'd up or ejected from a game. He was such a marketing giant for the NBA that he'd stay on the court no matter what he did. MJ traveled, palmed the ball and got away with a lot but he was showtime and he was great fun to watch. Payton said it best, they don't let you play defense anymore. The game has changed. Charles Oakley would have fouled out in the first quarter of the modern game

Yep agreed. Jordan got away with a lot.

Sounds like someone needs to familiarize themselves with "The Jordan Rules".

No, Harden is not "leveled several times a game". Just because he spends so much time falling down does not mean he gets leveled. The way the Pistons used to tackle Jordan on every drive would be considered flagrant fouls in today's NBA (unnecessary and excessive contact). Chuck Daley told his players that every time Jordan drove the lane, he was to get knocked on his ass, that sooner or later he'd get tired of it and stop driving. That's the exact opposite of James Harden's situation. He doesn't fear getting knocked on his ass, he LOVES to drive the lane because if anyone even breathes on him he can flail about and get an automatic two FTs.

Watching James Harden play makes me nostalgic for the way the NBA used to be played.

BNM

Ha, Harden takes plenty of hard fouls. I don't know, maybe you watch him play more than me though. I know there are Rocket fans that fear he has a career trajectory of Wade which means he's going to start racking up injuries because he throws his body at the rim more than most players. But hey, if people think Harden doesn't get hit then that's on them. Also it's a big myth that he justs drives into the lane looking for fouls and not points, that he just drives and flails about is also some BS, evidenced by the number of and 1s he gets. So much that on the inside of his signature shoe it says "3 The Harden Way".

Most of the people that say his FTs aren't deserved can't prove it. Go through the game, watch every play in which he receives two FTs and honestly say "He wasn't touched there..." until there is proof that he gets most of his points off of bad calls it sounds more like opposing fans whining that their defense can't keep the guy out of the paint.

 

[Boob-No-More]

Re: "OFFICIAL" Around the NBA season Thread

it sounds more like opposing fans whining that their defense can't keep the guy out of the paint.

Someone's barking up the wrong tree. Any of these superstar shooting performances sound vaguely familiar?

8/28 FGs
3/14 3FGs

6/19 FGs
2/5 3FGs

13/35 FGs
3/11 3FGs

9/21 FGs
3/11 3FGs

5/15 FGs
1/7 3FGs

No, that's not Kobe's first five games this season, that's Harden's first five games in the playoffs last season. That's a combined 41/118 = .347 FG% and 12/48 = .250 3FG%.

So, why would we be whining about our defense not being able to keep Harden out of the paint, when clearly we can - when it counts the most.

BNM

 

[riverman]

Re: "OFFICIAL" Around the NBA season Thread

Someone's barking up the wrong tree. Any of these superstar shooting performances sound vaguely familiar?

8/28 FGs
3/14 3FGs

6/19 FGs
2/5 3FGs

13/35 FGs
3/11 3FGs

9/21 FGs
3/11 3FGs

5/15 FGs
1/7 3FGs

No, that's not Kobe's first five games this season, that's Harden's first five games in the playoffs last season. That's a combined 41/118 = .347 FG% and 12/48 = .250 3FG%.

So, why would we be whining about our defense not being able to keep Harden out of the paint, when clearly we can - when it counts the most.

BNM

great point

 

[Superbeard]

Re: "OFFICIAL" Around the NBA season Thread

Someone's barking up the wrong tree. Any of these superstar shooting performances sound vaguely familiar?

8/28 FGs
3/14 3FGs

6/19 FGs
2/5 3FGs

13/35 FGs
3/11 3FGs

9/21 FGs
3/11 3FGs

5/15 FGs
1/7 3FGs

No, that's not Kobe's first five games this season, that's Harden's first five games in the playoffs last season. That's a combined 41/118 = .347 FG% and 12/48 = .250 3FG%.

So, why would we be whining about our defense not being able to keep Harden out of the paint, when clearly we can - when it counts the most.

BNM

Nah, that was a general statement to those who keep saying that the whole league says it. I'm saying yes, yeah they do because after a loss a fans natural response is to blame the refs. Thus "Harden gets so many FTs!" you hear from other fanbases (Although, Miami fans didn't resort to that last night) I was here (on this forum) after the Rockets loss, Harden had a bad series that's not opinion but fact. I congratulated you guys team then though as they did a good job (Wes mainly) on keeping him out of the paint and frustrating him...and he didn't get that many FTs that series IIRC which continues to prove my point that a guy that gets into the lane a lot just draws a lot of whistles. Sure some of them are not warranted but some surely are and they always benefit the aggressor.

 

[PDXFonz]

Re: "OFFICIAL" Around the NBA season Thread

i dunno... stephenson is doing alright to me given his situation... just a few less points.

but yeah, wtf is up with noah?

Haha a few less points... The guy has been going 1-6 and playing so bad that he has been benched the entire 4th quarter twice.

 

[PDXFonz]

Re: "OFFICIAL" Around the NBA season Thread

As far as the whole harden argument goes... In my opinion his FTA in the regular season are nothing for anyone to worry about. We saw he didn't get flop calls this regularly in the playoffs. Sad for a fan of that team, hardens antics may keep them in the playoff hunt, but they will never win because his style of play does not adhere to what is required in the playoffs.

 

[Superbeard]

Re: "OFFICIAL" Around the NBA season Thread

As far as the whole harden argument goes... In my opinion his FTA in the regular season are nothing for anyone to worry about. We saw he didn't get flop calls this regularly in the playoffs. Sad for a fan of that team, hardens antics may keep them in the playoff hunt, but they will never win because his style of play does not adhere to what is required in the playoffs.

This is my last post on Harden here. This idea that he has had no success in the playoffs is straight up not true. The guy has had good series, great series even lol. (Ask Spurs fans...) Not sure, I guess one bad finals series and one bad series last season means that every year forever he's going to have bad series. Which is funny because every player has a bad series or two throughout their career lol.

As for him not getting calls, lol his first series in a Rockets uniform he averaged 11 FTA. Refs still call fouls in the playoffs guys, ask Mavs fans what they think about Wade.

 

[illmatic99]

Re: "OFFICIAL" Around the NBA season Thread

I'm just amazed that his head is still firmly on his neck after the thousands of times he snaps it back. Must be screwed on real tight.

 

[HomerLovesKoolAid]

Re: "OFFICIAL" Around the NBA season Thread

This is my last post on Harden here. This idea that he has had no success in the playoffs is straight up not true. The guy has had good series, great series even lol. (Ask Spurs fans...) Not sure, I guess one bad finals series and one bad series last season means that every year forever he's going to have bad series. Which is funny because every player has a bad series or two throughout their career lol.

As for him not getting calls, lol his first series in a Rockets uniform he averaged 11 FTA. Refs still call fouls in the playoffs guys, ask Mavs fans what they think about Wade.

Good. I was afraid you'd run out of misguided angles.