"OFFICIAL" Around the NBA - November Thread

[BlazerDuckSeahawkFan94]

So does any NBA player trying to get a 4 point play actually.

I've never seen any Blazer since Roy/Rudy try that shit. It should be an offensive foul, flailing with a leg kick when there is no contact should be an automatic turnover. Flopping should be a turnover BOTTOMLINE.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

I've never seen any Blazer since Roy/Rudy try that shit. It should be an offensive foul, flailing with a leg kick when there is no contact should be an automatic turnover. Flopping should be a turnover BOTTOMLINE.

Don't forget the horrible season when we have Crawchuck... the 4 Point Play "specialist".

 

[Boise Blazer]

How is it not a basketball move though? I don't understand that, it's a advantage he has because of his handle on the ball and his ability to take contact while doing this. It's not some big advantage he has that is cheating and can't be stopped.

As the great Phil Jackson once said. "Basketball is about penetration." Stop that and you've stopped half of his offense ability. As it happens, Harden has great handles and a great first step, give him too much room and he'll drain the shot and get up on him and he can drive right by you. Stop his penetration and you've halfway won the battle against him, he's not cheating the game.

I'm going to type this with caps so maybe just maybe you will actually pay attention.

WE ARE NOT DEBATING THAT HARDEN HAS SKILLS. WE JUST WANT TO KNOW WHY HE WASTES HIS OTHER TALENTS DOING SHIT LIKE THE VIDEO ABOVE?

We aren't idiots on this board, I promise. We know the advantages of penetration and taking advantage of weaknesses etc.

IT'S THE WAY HE DOES AND THE FREQUENCY WITH THE WAY HE DOES IT.

He is a good player. He doesnt need to do that to be successful. This is what you don't seem to want to acknowledge or accept.

 

[Superbeard]

First off, quit comparing Harden to Jordan. Seriously, shut up with that shit.

http://bkref.com/tiny/WVKcF

In this list, Harden's 2013-14 ranks a measly 62nd among the best seasons for players who get fouled a lot (and shoot well enough that it's not hack a whoever). But his FTA's per game is 38th. The discrepency between 38th in FTAs per game and 62nd in Value over Replacement Player is why people call him a flopper. He's not so good you have to foul him. He's just good enough to fool people who should know better into calling fouls anyway.

This list actually works against your point man. Look at the players above Harden...all HOF players...

I've never seen any Blazer since Roy/Rudy try that shit. It should be an offensive foul, flailing with a leg kick when there is no contact should be an automatic turnover. Flopping should be a turnover BOTTOMLINE.

It is though, you can't kick out your leg any more they made that rule change last year? It was more than just a "Harden" problem.

 

[Boise Blazer]

Don't forget the horrible season when we have Crawchuck... the 4 Point Play "specialist".

And I really didn't care for it then and I really don't now with him. It feels wrong and not what it entertaining as a basketball fan. And more importantly I could admit it then and now.

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

The only way to stop this form of flopping is everyone has to start doing it.

It has to get out of hand.

Like the KD rip-through.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

This list actually works against your point man. Look at the players above Harden...all HOF players...

I don't think you understand, but that's not exactly unexpected.

It's not that Harden isn't good. It's not that the people on the list aren't great. It's that his value and his Free Throw attempts per game don't match up like REAL great players.

You can compare Harden to big boy great players, but the main thing he's doing as well as them is getting fouled. Everything else is B+/A- tier.

 

[BlazerDuckSeahawkFan94]

This is the kinda stuff that makes people not respect Harden's game.

[video=youtube;8h9ZMWhDuGk]
[video=youtube;SBLxh2uXpEE]
[video=youtube;VdICKLlISuE]
[video=youtube;wwhhbV1um1U]
[video=youtube;dplDQubcsJM]
This one may not be Harden but it's a Harden move...
[video=youtube;r5nZD_zvlOI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5nZD_zvlOI[/video]

 

[BlazerDuckSeahawkFan94]

This list actually works against your point man. Look at the players above Harden...all HOF players...



It is though, you can't kick out your leg any more they made that rule change last year? It was more than just a "Harden" problem.

It's obviously not being enforced on the "Stars" then.

 

[Boise Blazer]

And should it be that easy to find 5 videos if you are a legit player? I think not

 

[Boise Blazer]

For example I just did a you tube search for Damian Lillard flop and couldn't find a single one with flop in the title.

This is why we love Lillard. He is the anti-Harden

 

[PDXFonz]

Nice work bdsf!

I want to add this one to the mix


[video=YouTube;kYZ1gBKDR90]

 

[BlazerDuckSeahawkFan94]

For example I just did a you tube search for Damian Lillard flop and couldn't find a single one with flop in the title.

This is why we love Lillard. He is the anti-Harden

You rarely hear Lillard yell too, only when he really gets hammered and gets a no call.

 

[Superbeard]

I'm going to type this with caps so maybe just maybe you will actually pay attention.

WE ARE NOT DEBATING THAT HARDEN HAS SKILLS. WE JUST WANT TO KNOW WHY HE WASTES HIS OTHER TALENTS DOING SHIT LIKE THE VIDEO ABOVE?

We aren't idiots on this board, I promise. We know the advantages of penetration and taking advantage of weaknesses etc.

IT'S THE WAY HE DOES AND THE FREQUENCY WITH THE WAY HE DOES IT.

He is a good player. He doesnt need to do that to be successful. This is what you don't seem to want to acknowledge or accept.

But when people continue to question why he gets to the line so often I'm simply telling you the answer. James Harden drives the lane...a lot.

His shot chart is so unusual "Video Game James" as he's called on several forums because just like some kid playing a video game he's either shooting a three or driving the lane. So the frequency at which he does gets fouled is synonymous with the frequency he actually drives the paint.

The video above is a flop, but how many points per game do you think that accounts for? Some times a flop doesn't even get him to the line if it's a offball thing. How many points do you think his 'flopping' is accountable for.

 

[Boise Blazer]

But when people continue to question why he gets to the line so often I'm simply telling you the answer. James Harden drives the lane...a lot.

His shot chart is so unusual "Video Game James" as he's called on several forums because just like some kid playing a video game he's either shooting a three or driving the lane. So the frequency at which he does gets fouled is synonymous with the frequency he actually drives the paint.

The video above is a flop, but how many points per game do you think that accounts for? Some times a flop doesn't even get him to the line if it's a offball thing. How many points do you think his 'flopping' is accountable for.

The way. The frequency of the way. I don't know how else to say it.

 

[Superbeard]

I don't think you understand, but that's not exactly unexpected.

It's not that Harden isn't good. It's not that the people on the list aren't great. It's that his value and his Free Throw attempts per game don't match up like REAL great players.

You can compare Harden to big boy great players, but the main thing he's doing as well as them is getting fouled. Everything else is B+/A- tier.

Yes, because just like those other players he scores plenty in the paint.

EDIT: Also how can you say that Harden won't belong on that list with other players? The man is 25 years old and has his entire career ahead of him.

 

[BlazerDuckSeahawkFan94]

But when people continue to question why he gets to the line so often I'm simply telling you the answer. James Harden drives the lane...a lot.

His shot chart is so unusual "Video Game James" as he's called on several forums because just like some kid playing a video game he's either shooting a three or driving the lane. So the frequency at which he does gets fouled is synonymous with the frequency he actually drives the paint.

The video above is a flop, but how many points per game do you think that accounts for? Some times a flop doesn't even get him to the line if it's a offball thing. How many points do you think his 'flopping' is accountable for.

It's not 'how many points' it's that he does it in crucial times (see the Wesley Matthews "foul" and the Ariza "foul")

 

[Boise Blazer]

It's not 'how many points' it's that he does it in crucial times (see the Wesley Matthews "foul" and the Ariza "foul")

Which goes back to not playing the game the right way. I want my team to win it, not have it gifted to them

 

[Superbeard]

This is the kinda stuff that makes people not respect Harden's game.

[video=youtube;8h9ZMWhDuGk]
[video=youtube;SBLxh2uXpEE]
[video=youtube;VdICKLlISuE]
[video=youtube;wwhhbV1um1U]
[video=youtube;dplDQubcsJM]
This one may not be Harden but it's a Harden move...
[video=youtube;r5nZD_zvlOI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5nZD_zvlOI[/video]

Video one.
Non shooting foul, 0 points.
2nd was a flop that likely resulted in him getting 2 points.

Video Two
Non shooting foul.

Video Three.
Non Shooting foul

Video Four
A foul actually, could go on either one of them.

Video Five
Sold contact, not actually a flop if he got hit in the chin. By the NBA rules you can't raise your elbows and hit people in that area.

So those five videos all resulted in James getting 2 FTA. This is the kind of stuff that Lebron and Chris Paul do every game too...

 

[Boise Blazer]

Video one.
Non shooting foul, 0 points.
2nd was a flop that likely resulted in him getting 2 points.

Video Two
Non shooting foul.

Video Three.
Non Shooting foul

Video Four
A foul actually, could go on either one of them.

Video Five
Sold contact, not actually a flop if he got hit in the chin. By the NBA rules you can't raise your elbows and hit people in that area.

So those five videos all resulted in James getting 2 FTA. This is the kind of stuff that Lebron and Chris Paul do every game too...

Video 1 - not necessary
Video 2 - not necessary
Video 3 - not necessary
Video 4 - not necessary
Video 5 - not necessary

 

[PDXFonz]

But when people continue to question why he gets to the line so often I'm simply telling you the answer. James Harden drives the lane...a lot.

His shot chart is so unusual "Video Game James" as he's called on several forums because just like some kid playing a video game he's either shooting a three or driving the lane. So the frequency at which he does gets fouled is synonymous with the frequency he actually drives the paint.

The video above is a flop, but how many points per game do you think that accounts for? Some times a flop doesn't even get him to the line if it's a offball thing. How many points do you think his 'flopping' is accountable for.

You can drive the lane without flopping. Your average, non flopping player will drive with the goal of finishing at the rim.

Getting fouled and flopping are two different things. I don't care what his foul % is when he drives the lane. Your redundancy is insulting, we know driving the lane gets you to the line.

It's not about when he gets fouled, it's about the fact that James Harden often egregiously acts like he was fouled when there was no substantial contact.

 

[PDXFonz]

Video one.
Non shooting foul, 0 points.
2nd was a flop that likely resulted in him getting 2 points.

Video Two
Non shooting foul.

Video Three.
Non Shooting foul

Video Four
A foul actually, could go on either one of them.

Video Five
Sold contact, not actually a flop if he got hit in the chin. By the NBA rules you can't raise your elbows and hit people in that area.

So those five videos all resulted in James getting 2 FTA. This is the kind of stuff that Lebron and Chris Paul do every game too...

It's not about how many points or free throws he gets by flopping. It would piss me off just as much if he got 0 PTS a game by flopping and was fined $1,000,000 a year. It has no place in the game regardless of its success, or lack there of.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

EDIT: Also how can you say that Harden won't belong on that list with other players? The man is 25 years old and has his entire career ahead of him.

It's pretty easy. I think it, then my fingers type it.

Harden's a very good player. But there's a lot of very good players out there.

Hell, Harden will probably be in the Hall Of Fame despite that fact that he'll never get a ring in Houston.

But he's not LeBron. He's not Jordan. He's not Kobe, even.

First off, none of those three ever fell asleep on defense half as much as Harden. He's a fucking liability.

Secondly, at one point in their careers, each one of them was considered the best in the league.

There are a lot of very good players in the league, and in the history of the league.

Harden is Bernard King. Harden is Dominique Wilkens. Harden is not Jordan.

 

[Superbeard]

You can drive the lane without flopping. Your average, non flopping player will drive with the goal of finishing at the rim, not getting fouled. Harden drives with the goal to get fouled, which means when he is not fouled he often acts as though he was.

Getting fouled and flopping are two different things. I don't care what his foul % is when he drives the lane. Your redundancy is insulting, we know driving the lane gets you to the line.

It's not about when he gets fouled, it's about the fact that James Harden often egregiously acts like he was fouled when there was no substantial contact.

Not sure where you get that from. Harden looks to finish when he goes into the lane or to pass, I doubt any one that watches him play a lot would agree with you that he drives only to get fouled. His And 1s would disagree with that as well.

Well, pretending like Harden's game is flopping is insulting. Especially when his numbers rank up there with the best this season.

No substantial contact? Any proof of that? Harden was even wearing a pretty heavy vest for most of the season, not sure what proof is there that Harden when he drives the lane isn't fouled or isn't fouled hard enough.

 

[Superbeard]

It's pretty easy. I think it, then my fingers type it.

Harden's a very good player. But there's a lot of very good players out there.

Hell, Harden will probably be in the Hall Of Fame despite that fact that he'll never get a ring in Houston.

But he's not LeBron. He's not Jordan. He's not Kobe, even.

First off, none of those three ever fell asleep on defense half as much as Harden. He's a fucking liability.

Secondly, at one point in their careers, each one of them was considered the best in the league.

There are a lot of very good players in the league, and in the history of the league.

Harden is Bernard King. Harden is Dominique Wilkens. Harden is not Jordan.

Sorry man, you have not watched the Rockets this year enough to say that.

Last year that was true, this year it 100% is untrue and a statement only someone would make basing Harden's defense off of last year and blindly just saying that.

Harden's defense is FAR from a liability this year, in fact he's one of the teams better defenders playing on the leagues best defense. Every defensive stat backs up this too. Even ask Rocket fans about Harden's defense.

Last year most if not all would tell you it's horrible, this year most if not all rave about it. I'm sorry but knocking Harden on his defense this year thus far is a no go. He's been fully committed to this side of the ball, moreso than offense even. There is nothing that backs up Harden falling asleep on defense this year except one gif where he was caught at mid court and just swiped at the ball.

Again, Rockets fans trashed his defense last year this year it's far from being a liability. He actually creates a lot of turnovers, hustles and contests every shot, and whenever he sinks in and digs on a big he usually creates havoc with his quick hand. He's not at all a problem on defense this season.

 

[BlazerCaravan]

Interesting. I take it then you agree with the rest of my post, which is good because it's all true.

I doubt Harden will ever make an All Defensive team like LeBron and Jordan did regularly. But hey, he's only 25!

 

[Boise Blazer]

Ok plain and simple, straight up... Are you ok with how much he flops whether it's offense, defense, driving the lane, whatever? Period. The way he does and the frequency with which he does it?

Yes or no

 

[illmatic99]

Lol @ this guy claiming we don't watch Harden enough. Smh!!! That's exactly the point. What sane fan in their right mind would choose to watch that boring basketball? All the good that Stern and Silver have done over the past 10 yes to bring back free flowing basketball, Harden and this HOU team have undone with their garbage play.

 

[Superbeard]

Interesting. I take it then you agree with the rest of my post, which is good because it's all true.

I doubt Harden will ever make an All Defensive team like LeBron and Jordan did regularly. But hey, he's only 25!

Nah, I don't agree with the rest of your post. Hey man, I don't think Liliard and LMA will be enough to get the Blazers a ring either. Doesn't really mean anything though, just one guys opinion. I remember guys telling me "Harden would never be a max player." and laughing at Morey for saying he would. So I didn't think much of it. They play the game to prove people right and prove them wrong. Hey and Morey once said that the Heat wouldn't win a championship with Lebron/Wade/Bosh...just another prediction, like Charles crazy prediction that Yao would be nothing in the NBA.

I didn't respond because I honestly (not a knock on you at all or meant as a insult) didn't care that you thought Harden would never win a championship in Houston, or that he'd just be Dominique Wilkins type of player. Not a insult, but no one can really predict the future. Not even people that know way more about professional ball than us can predict how good a player can be consistently. So I didn't reply to that because I didn't care. I was talking about Harden's current performance and that's all.

Whether he makes all defense or not, don't know. I just know he's far from being a liability this year. I know he's improved his all around game this year.

Ok plain and simple, straight up... Are you ok with how much he flops whether it's offense, defense, driving the lane, whatever? Period. The way he does and the frequency with which he does it?

Yes or no

I'm fine with it, I don't consider driving flopping at all. Even if the guy is 'selling' contact as they call it which a lot of great players do. I'd rather my team stop the penetration.

The little off ball flops, non shooting flops, is like a 3x a week thing and hardly some Harden exclusive problem.

 

[Boise Blazer]

Nah, I don't agree with the rest of your post. Hey man, I don't think Liliard and LMA will be enough to get the Blazers a ring either. Doesn't really mean anything though, just one guys opinion. I remember guys telling me "Harden would never be a max player." and laughing at Morey for saying he would. So I didn't think much of it. They play the game to prove people right and prove them wrong. Hey and Morey once said that the Heat wouldn't win a championship with Lebron/Wade/Bosh...just another prediction, like Charles crazy prediction that Yao would be nothing in the NBA.

I didn't respond because I honestly (not a knock on you at all or meant as a insult) didn't care that you thought Harden would never win a championship in Houston, or that he'd just be Dominique Wilkins type of player. Not a insult, but no one can really predict the future. Not even people that know way more about professional ball than us can predict how good a player can be consistently. So I didn't reply to that because I didn't care. I was talking about Harden's current performance and that's all.

Whether he makes all defense or not, don't know. I just know he's far from being a liability this year. I know he's improved his all around game this year.



I'm fine with it, I don't consider driving flopping at all. Even if the guy is 'selling' contact as they call it which a lot of great players do. I'd rather my team stop the penetration.

The little off ball flops, non shooting flops, is like a 3x a week thing and hardly some Harden exclusive problem.

Ok that makes this discussion pointless then. Good day