OFFICIAL AROUND THE NBA: OCTOBER 2023

[Phatguysrule]

 

[PtldPlatypus]

No team was going to trade us a near All Star for Norman Powell and Robert Covington between the time Cronin took the job and the time Dame asked out.

It would have been nice, but no player of that high of caliber has been dealt for similar value as we had to offer. If they had you might have reason to be slightly annoyed. But that's just not reality.

I don't think anyone's saying that we should have received "a near all-star", but perhaps an asset that would have netted some residual value. At present, the Blazers have zero net return from that trade.

 

[Wizard Mentor]

Spin Control, except it doesn't really work.

 

[inconceivable]

It was Lowry, Duncan plus a couple lottery protected picks for Dame

 

[Phatguysrule]

I don't think anyone's saying that we should have received "a near all-star", but perhaps an asset that would have netted some residual value. At present, the Blazers have zero net return from that trade.

Like what? We got a first round pick from the prior year... He didn't pan out. Like James Wiseman.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Like what? We got a first round pick from the prior year... He didn't pan out. Like James Wiseman.

A #21 that his team gave up on in less than a year is not much of an asset--exceedingly dissimilar from a #2 overall who had been injured, and who clearly didn't fit with his drafting team's timeline and style.

 

[illmatic99]

Keep an eye on what's happening in Minny. Finding a KAT deal is absolutely paramount.





Don't necessarily think we should be involved but he's gonna be traded for less than his value due to his contract.

 

[BigGameDamian]

 

[Pinwheel1]

Keep an eye on what's happening in Minny. Finding a KAT deal is absolutely paramount.





Don't necessarily think we should be involved but he's gonna be traded for less than his value due to his contract.

So how long do they have to cut salary? The beginning of next season? I would let it play out this season to see what happens. Maybe they try to dump Gobert instead. Only two years left after this year.

 

[Samuel]

I'd hate to hold the bag on that KAT deal but I'm always interested in bargain shopping, especially as a rebuilding team.

 

[Phatguysrule]

A #21 that his team gave up on in less than a year is not much of an asset--exceedingly dissimilar from a #2 overall who had been injured, and who clearly didn't fit with his drafting team's timeline and style.

Nobody was going to give us a #2 for those guys, either.

We weren't going to get markedly better value out of those guys on those salaries. It just wasn't going to happen, IMO. Getting rid of them was essential, though.

 

[KingSpeed]

I know the $$ has changed crazily, but to put it in a little perspective, Giannis' 3 year extension will pay him about twice as much money as Michael Jordan made in his entire 15 year career!

Excluding the fact that Jordan has made billions from his Nike deal.

 

[KingSpeed]

The wolves look like a treadmill, a very very expensive treadmill

We’ll see. I’ve seen predictions that Minnesota will be 2nd in the West this year. People believe Ant Edwards will be MVP level this year. If so, they’re better than the Utah team that got the #1 seed in 2021.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Nobody was going to give us a #2 for those guys, either.

We weren't going to get markedly better value out of those guys on those salaries. It just wasn't going to happen, IMO. Getting rid of them was essential, though.

Again, nobody was expecting a #2 pick, a James Wiseman, or for us "to get markedly better". All anyone wanted was some assets--at least one--that would have contributed in some way to the pipe-dream retool or the eventual rebuild. Instead, we got nothing.

 

[Pinwheel1]

We’ll see. I’ve seen predictions that Minnesota will be 2nd in the West this year. People believe Ant Edwards will be MVP level this year. If so, they’re better than the Utah team that got the #1 seed in 2021.

Yeah they can not afford to lose Edwards for any extended amount of time. He is so much better than any other wing player on that team. They have depth at center for sure, but the rest of the team does not look that deep to me

 

[illmatic99]

So how long do they have to cut salary? The beginning of next season? I would let it play out this season to see what happens. Maybe they try to dump Gobert instead. Only two years left after this year.

Assuming season's end. Doubt they can dump Gobert for anything

 

[BigGameDamian]

 

[RR7]

Again, nobody was expecting a #2 pick, a James Wiseman, or for us "to get markedly better". All anyone wanted was some assets--at least one--that would have contributed in some way to the pipe-dream retool or the eventual rebuild. Instead, we got nothing.

But we did get an asset. It just turned out not to be all that good of one. Doesn't change that he was a recent 1st round pick. And it was an asset to contribute to an eventual rebuild. And we got an asset for the pipe dream retool in Winslow. Just an oft-injured one that, you guessed it!, got injured. But was playing a decent role for us to start the season. So one rebuild asset and one retool asset. Neither worked out. But Covington and Powell weren't either. I'd say the real benefit was just getting out of their deals.

 

[kjironman1]

Excluding the fact that Jordan has made billions from his Nike deal.

NIKE made bunches off Jordan also. I wonder what the numbers are really?

 

[Phatguysrule]

Again, nobody was expecting a #2 pick, a James Wiseman, or for us "to get markedly better". All anyone wanted was some assets--at least one--that would have contributed in some way to the pipe-dream retool or the eventual rebuild. Instead, we got nothing.

Overpaid 15-20 mpg players aren't worth assets that are guaranteed to be good for a rebuild or adding a player Grant's quality.

They are good for trading for gambles on short term contracts. That's what we got for them.

I've not seen a prospective deal for those players that would leave us in a better place than we are now (that weren't also gambles), so it doesn't make sense to waste energy being upset about it.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Overpaid 15-20 mpg players aren't worth assets that are guaranteed to be good for a rebuild or adding a player Grant's quality.

They are good for trading for gambles on short term contracts. That's what we got for them.

I've not seen a prospective deal for those players that would leave us in a better place than we are now (that weren't also gambles), so it doesn't make sense to waste energy being upset about it.

Who's upset about anything? All I'm saying is that the net result of that deal is that 1.5 years later, the team has nothing to show for it. This isn't an emotional response; it's an analytical one. As much as you might want to disingenuously diminish Powell (definitely more than a 15-20 mpg player) and RoCo (clearly not overpaid, given he was re-signed for similar salary), the fact of the lack of return remains.

 

[BIG Q]

And put Minnesota in the east!

 

[kjironman1]

And put Minnesota in the east!

Memphis as well.

 

[Whyachi]

A new Expansion Draft might get a little crazy. Every Franchise gets to drop a couple names into the expansion draft pool. This player is hurting our cap space too much .... bloop... you're a star player on the brand new Vegas Mobsters team!

 

[andalusian]

Who's upset about anything? All I'm saying is that the net result of that deal is that 1.5 years later, the team has nothing to show for it. This isn't an emotional response; it's an analytical one. As much as you might want to disingenuously diminish Powell (definitely more than a 15-20 mpg player) and RoCo (clearly not overpaid, given he was re-signed for similar salary), the fact of the lack of return remains.

I do not think this is the correct way to look at transactions. The Blazers had a bloated roster without a future. The first step was removing some of the bloat from players that had better prospects. The Blazers at the time had 4 undersized guards on the roster, Dame, CJ, Ant, NP. NP is clearly the one with the lowest overall value for the Blazers (where value is some kind of formula that combines production, trade value and future potential). So, they had to get rid of him. This allowed them to do the next moves, that included CJ + ... for Hart (basically, a better NP) and the ability to trade for a mobile, 2 way forward (Grant), and later hart which basically became KM (a much bigger player which if he develops, probably fits better on a good roster than NP / the skeleton of RoCo).

Add the fact that RoCo did not want to be here, so had to be moved. You can argue that he was worth his contract because the Clippers extended him for the same contract, but I think that this ignores the following facts: 1. He plays better on the Clippers than he did in Portland so maybe worth his contract and 2. The Clippers, if PG and KL are healthy are title contenders, his production is worth it on that team. Portland at the time was a losing team that lost it's #1 player to an injury that no-one if he would recover from. He was clearly not worth keeping for Portland, especially how un-inspired he was playing for Portland.

My point is that I dispute the idea that the move has left the team with nothing to show for it. It had to be done so future moves could be done, that's what the team shows for it. If you have a crumbling castle and need to remove the walls to end with a livable smaller home after the rebuild that hopefully you can add to with time, it does not mean that removing the crumbling walls did not have value.

 

[Pinwheel1]

Both new locations would have no state income tax for players.

 

[blazerfan11]

Both easy to get to from Portland.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Memphis as well.

No. Only one team needs to move, and Memphis is actually close to several western conference teams. Minnesota is not.

 

[Quatro44]

 

[Phatguysrule]

Who's upset about anything? All I'm saying is that the net result of that deal is that 1.5 years later, the team has nothing to show for it. This isn't an emotional response; it's an analytical one. As much as you might want to disingenuously diminish Powell (definitely more than a 15-20 mpg player) and RoCo (clearly not overpaid, given he was re-signed for similar salary), the fact of the lack of return remains.

You're "upset" enough to be having this conversation trying to levy blame. Or negative responsibility. Or whatever.

But one of them is overpaid (or was at the time, thanks to the additional year and his age) and the other is only a 15-20mpg player.

These guys didn't have good value. Partially because they were in such a shit situation here in Portland (also not Cronin's fault). From what I can see we weren't going to get anything better than a gamble and cap relief out of them.

Maybe a different gamble would have been better in hindsight? But they had to go.

What other deal should have been done?