Official NCAA Basketball Thread

[NOVoodoo]

Outside of myself and MickZagger, who would the average s2 poster take if Michigan State played Gonzaga at a neutral site?

I'm precluding MickZagger and myself, because I'm a MSU diehard and MickZagger is a Gonzaga diehard.

I'm just looking at the polls and thinking, "who couldn't the Spartans beat right now?" We should have beat Indiana in Bloomington, had it not been for having Appling sidelined for most of the game and some very objectively questionable calls down the stretch. We lost to Miami earlier on in the season, but this MSU team, like a lot of the teams in the past, has evolved so much over the year, that I think the Spartans would absolutely have their way with the Hurricane if we played today. I feel confident in our ability to take on pretty much any team ranked ahead of us at the moment.

That's why I want an outside opinion on MSU vs. Gonzaga. What do the impartial fans think about both teams at the moment, because I think they're probably the two hottest teams in NCAA ball at the moment, and it just so happens that MickZagger and I are fans of the two teams, so our opinions would inevitably be biased.

----

Just saying, check out the resume -

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/rpi/_/teamId/127

Not to bad for a team that just started to click in January...

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Man--Pitt leading ND 19-3 over 13 minutes in.

Big East fever--catch it.

 

[NOVoodoo]

Man--Pitt leading ND 19-3 over 13 minutes in.

Big East fever--catch it.

24% FG from Notre Dame, including an 0-12 start. That's just bad basketball. It reminds me of the 5 OT Louisville game. The ending was exciting, but the reality is that both teams played like shit.

I'm really not feeling the Big East this year...

 

[MickZagger]

Big East basketball resembles football more than basketball. Seriously, that league is not as great as it seems. The refs just let everything go and it turns into a blood bath. Not a big fan.

 

[MickZagger]

BTW, my Zags are sitting at #3, baby!!!

 

[MickZagger]

Voodoo,

Who are your 1 seeds as of right now?

 

[NOVoodoo]

Voodoo,

Who are your 1 seeds as of right now?

I'd say it's got to be Indiana-Miami-Gonzaga-Duke a the moment... wouldn't you agree?

Duke's not playing at the level that they were playing at with Kelly, but they've still got the #1 RPI and some really impressive wins.

I don't think that the ACC deserves two #1 seeds with how down their conference is, but by the numbers, I guess that's how it'd shake down.

I'd still take Florida, Michigan State, Kansas, and Michigan over either Miami or Duke though.

 

[MickZagger]

I'd agree. Miami and Duke have been getting by with the hair on their chinny-chin-chin lately. I know there's a lot of Zag haters around the country. But the Zags are currently 3-1 vs. the RPI top 25. By comparison:

Duke = 3-2
Florida = 2-2
Michigan State = 3-3
Louisville = 2-3
Michigan = 3-2
Syracuse = 1-0
Kansas = 4-3
Indiana = 4-1

 

[MickZagger]

Miami still plays Duke. Should be interesting.

 

[MickZagger]

Zags are currently 10-2 vs. the RPI top 100. By comparison:

Duke = 12-3
Florida = 11-3
Michigan State = 10-4
Louisville = 10-5
Michigan = 10-4
Syracuse = 10-4
Kansas = 12-3
Indiana = 9-3

 

[NOVoodoo]

Zags are currently 10-2 vs. the RPI top 100. By comparison:

Duke = 12-3
Florida = 11-3
Michigan State = 10-4
Louisville = 10-5
Michigan = 10-4
Syracuse = 10-4
Kansas = 12-3
Indiana = 9-3

Those are some telling numbers. Everyone keeps talking about all of the parody in college basketball this year, but I really think it's largely a result of some of the "BCS" conferences being down. In particular, the Big East and the ACC are having really down years. The ACC's down year is largely a result of the schizophrenic play of N.C. State and UNC, but the Big East is just down overall. They're really only surviving in the rankings because of the self-fulfilling prophecy of being in that hype machine.

I was actually defending the Zags recently against the bullshit assumptions that go along with playing in a mid-major conference. Honestly, it's like Syracuse and Duke are playing in mid-major conferences this season.

Louisville, in particular, is getting too much credit. Everyone always talks about how great their backcourt is, but I think the Siva/Smith backcourt is a recipe for disaster. They've both have the same problems in their game. They're both always going for the home-run plays, make questionable decisions, and always try to put the team on their backs, even when they don't need to. Smith, in particular, is very shaky decision maker on defense. If both those guys make the right gambles, they're unstoppable, but it's like they're playing Russian roulette every time they play.

 

[MickZagger]

Do you think Memphis is prime for a decent run this March? Is Pastner doing a good job with that team? I haven't been able to see them play much.

 

[NOVoodoo]

Do you think Memphis is prime for a decent run this March? Is Pastner doing a good job with that team? I haven't been able to see them play much.

I'm in the minority in the city on this, but I think Pastner has done a horrible job. He keeps his job by bringing in great recruiting classes every year, but the players basically run the program.

Calipari was pretty much just a recruiter himself, but at least he would be able to command a certain level of respect out of his players. Guys like Joe Jackson, Tarik Black, and Adonis Thomas seem to have no respect for Pastner. Essentially, he's got a lot of guys with unstable temperaments, and the program goes as their temperaments go. They're easily rattled, play undisciplined, can't hit free-throws, and most importantly, they don't listen to their own coach.

From a talent perspective, they've got one of the best teams in the country, but their record is really largely a factor of a very weak year for C-USA. The C-USA is usually in the same class as the WCC, A-10, or WAC, but they're having a down year just like some of the power conferences.

March is a coin-flip for the Tigers right now, because like I said, they're one of the most talented programs out there, but they run still run an even looser version of Calipari's offense with less discipline, if that were possible, and a lot of personalities that will mesh alright in C-USA play but will wind up shooting the team in the foot when they face competition on their level in March.

BTW - I'm not 100% on this stat, but I think that Josh Pastner has yet to beat a Top-25 opponent yet at Memphis. Pretty damning if true...

 

[NOVoodoo]

ESPN's latest POY poll is pretty interesting -

http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/76785/oladipo-keeps-pace-in-poy-straw-poll

46 Trey Burke, So., G, Michigan 20 (60) 19 (38) 7 105
32 Victor Oladipo, Jr., G, Indiana 18 (54) 11 (22) 3 79
20 Doug McDermott, Jr., F, Creighton 6 (18) 8 (16) 6 40
18 Mason Plumlee, Sr., F, Duke 2 (6) 4 (8) 12 26
12 Kelly Olynyk, Jr., F, Gonzaga 2 (6) 3 (6) 7 19
9 Cody Zeller, So., F, Indiana 2 (6) 3 (6) 4 16
6 Marcus Smart, Fr., G, Oklahoma State 1 (3) 1 (2) 4 9
3 Ben McLemore, Fr., G, Kansas 0 1 (2) 2 4
3 Shane Larkin, So., G, Miami (Fla.) 0 0 3 3
2 Otto Porter, So., F, Georgetown 0 0 2 2
1 Erick Green, Sr., G, Virginia Tech 0 1 (2) 0 2
1 Nate Wolters, Sr., G, South Dakota St. 0 0 1 1

Looks like the consensus is either Burke or Oladipo, with McDermott, Plumlee, and Olynyk being the only legit competition.

 

[MickZagger]

Funny they have Olynyk as Forward. People on these boards say he'll never be a Forward. I don't agree with those rankings.

 

[Haakzilla]

People on these boards say he'll never be a Forward.

...I say, that's all he will be!

 

[NOVoodoo]

Funny they have Olynyk as Forward. People on these boards say he'll never be a Forward. I don't agree with those rankings.

I'm surprised Burke is still the favorite given their 2-3 record in their last five games. Not that Burke hasn't played great in the losses, but I'm just surprised that with a knee-jerk media, they're still holding onto their mid-season favorite.

I also don't like McDermott over Olynyk. I think a lot of the McDermott votes simply come from his preseason hype, but honestly, Creighton's not having that great of a season. They've only got the #47 RPI for fucks sake, and they also have a 2-3 record in their last five, like Michigan, except their three losses were to Indiana State, Illinois State, and Northern Iowa. I don't see how anyone would put him in their top three, much less how six voters actually have him as their overall POY.

Plumlee should be out of the picture as well, for the moment at least. He was the hands down favorite at the beginning of the season, but Duke has been skittish since Kelly got hurt. If you're really the POY, the injury of one of your team's auxiliary players shouldn't have that big of an effect on your team's performance.

If I had to vote today, it'd be a close call between Oladipo, Burke, and Olynyk. I wouldn't even really consider McDermott or Plumlee.

BTW - What happened with Grant Gibbs at Gonzaga? I don't even really remember him playing there.

 

[MickZagger]

He was too passive and saw the writing on the wall when Bell and Pangos signed. He was too good of a recruit not to get any burn.

 

[NOVoodoo]

Anyone watching this Kansas/Iowa St. game?

Iowa State was absolutely robbed at the end of regulation. Elijah Johnson got away with a charge, and then when the ball was loose on the ground, Iowa St. got called for a phantom foul that wound up forcing OT.

This would be their fourth loss that came from a last minute play or shot. They already lost once to Kansas because of a late three, as well as to Oklahoma State and Texas at the last minute.

This hurts their bubble chances, but I still don't see 34 at-large candidates that actually look better on the floor than Iowa State. Korie Lucious is also one of the most underrated point guards in the country. His height limits his pro potential, but I think he's easily one of the ten best floor generals in all of college basketball right now.

 

[MickZagger]

Anyone watching this Kansas/Iowa St. game?

Iowa State was absolutely robbed at the end of regulation. Elijah Johnson got away with a charge, and then when the ball was loose on the ground, Iowa St. got called for a phantom foul that wound up forcing OT.

This would be their fourth loss that came from a last minute play or shot. They already lost once to Kansas because of a late three, as well as to Oklahoma State and Texas at the last minute.

This hurts their bubble chances, but I still don't see 34 at-large candidates that actually look better on the floor than Iowa State. Korie Lucious is also one of the most underrated point guards in the country. His height limits his pro potential, but I think he's easily one of the ten best floor generals in all of college basketball right now.

I watched the end of it. The Cyclone crowd had the wind kicked out of their sails at the end there. Johnson was ridiculous hitting stuff that he had no business making. Yeah, that was a horrible non foul call at the end. Then Johnson with the tacky dunk when the game was clearly over. I don't think Hoiberg and Self like each other very much.

 

[NOVoodoo]

I watched the end of it. The Cyclone crowd had the wind kicked out of their sails at the end there. Johnson was ridiculous hitting stuff that he had no business making. Yeah, that was a horrible non foul call at the end. Then Johnson with the tacky dunk when the game was clearly over. I don't think Hoiberg and Self like each other very much.

I wonder if too many coaches actually do respect Fred Hoiberg. I would have pegged him for a good guy when he was a player, but as a coach, he's sort of become the John Calipari of the Big 12. He keeps getting the shady recruits that most schools don't want to touch. Every year, their team is filled will talented guys like Royce White, Korie Lucious, and Chris Allen that got kicked off their previous teams, as well as poached transfers like Will Clyburn, Scott Christopherson, Chris Babb, and Anthony Booker. Not to mention Percy Gibson decommitting from Dayton and all of the JuCo guys they bring in. There's just a whole lot of sketchiness going on there that most of the respectable programs try to distance themselves from.

 

[Run BJM]

I wonder if too many coaches actually do respect Fred Hoiberg. I would have pegged him for a good guy when he was a player, but as a coach, he's sort of become the John Calipari of the Big 12. He keeps getting the shady recruits that most schools don't want to touch. Every year, their team is filled will talented guys like Royce White, Korie Lucious, and Chris Allen that got kicked off their previous teams, as well as poached transfers like Will Clyburn, Scott Christopherson, Chris Babb, and Anthony Booker. Not to mention Percy Gibson decommitting from Dayton and all of the JuCo guys they bring in. There's just a whole lot of sketchiness going on there that most of the respectable programs try to distance themselves from.

I think he's really just trying to fast-track the program and his career. Its a lot easier to add those guys than try to compete with the elite schools recruiting elite talent to Iowa State. Hes confident that he can get their respect, reign them in, and get them to play for him. Seems like its working so far. But I reckon it won't be too long before he moves on to a better gig.

 

[NOVoodoo]

I think he's really just trying to fast-track the program and his career. Its a lot easier to add those guys than try to compete with the elite schools recruiting elite talent to Iowa State. Hes confident that he can get their respect, reign them in, and get them to play for him. Seems like its working so far. But I reckon it won't be too long before he moves on to a better gig.

I'm not saying I don't understand what he's doing. I understood what Coach Cal did too. I just don't respect it, nor do I imagine other coaches respect it.

 

[MickZagger]

I wonder if too many coaches actually do respect Fred Hoiberg. I would have pegged him for a good guy when he was a player, but as a coach, he's sort of become the John Calipari of the Big 12. He keeps getting the shady recruits that most schools don't want to touch. Every year, their team is filled will talented guys like Royce White, Korie Lucious, and Chris Allen that got kicked off their previous teams, as well as poached transfers like Will Clyburn, Scott Christopherson, Chris Babb, and Anthony Booker. Not to mention Percy Gibson decommitting from Dayton and all of the JuCo guys they bring in. There's just a whole lot of sketchiness going on there that most of the respectable programs try to distance themselves from.

The way recruiting is these days does he have any other chance to be successful in Ames if he doesn't gamble with shady recruits? Kids today don't remember Iowa St. ever being relevant (the Fizer and Tinsley days) and he doesn't have the resources to get players outside of the picked over midwest.

 

[NOVoodoo]

The way recruiting is these days does he have any other chance to be successful in Ames if he doesn't gamble with shady recruits? Kids today don't remember Iowa St. ever being relevant (the Fizer and Tinsley days) and he doesn't have the resources to get players outside of the picked over midwest.

There are a lot of guys around the area that are decent recruits that would actually have a chance of going to Iowa State. Harrison Barnes is from Aimes, for one. His father even played there. Then there are all the white guys out of Iowa like Grant Gibbs that wind up out of state. The state isn't exactly a hotbed for recruiting, but there's talent there.

It's also one thing to have a few guys who are JuCo's or transfers, but their entire program is based on the guys that other programs have blacklisted. It's John Calpiari's "program building 101."

Ask Frank McCaffery how he feels about it. You think he has an easier time recruiting kids from the area? Why hasn't he stooped to the same tactics? Iowa has the same recruiting obstacles to overcome, yet somehow they beat Iowa State this year, have just as good of a resume, and don't have a single transfer or JuCo player on their roster.

 

[Run BJM]

Iowa is a very well established collegiate program. They can get top regional talent and pretty good non-regional talent. Iowa State has been very good lately but they still don't have the pedigree and I can only assume that all the kids growing up in that area didn't grow up dreaming of playing for Iowa State.

I get that Hoiberg has had some shady practices, but I don't really blame him. Other coaches are pissed that hes picked up kids who they've cast out of the DI fraternity? Who cares? And have any of them been problematic in their time at Iowa State? Hes getting talented kids through a legal process and using his reputation as a former NBA player to his advantage. To my knowledge hes getting a lot out of these talented athletes as well and keeping them in line.

 

[NOVoodoo]

If you look at what UT's done this year, they're really only two close games (Georgetown, Memphis) away from being a tournament team. They might have to run the table (including a win at home against Florida) to make it at this point, but regardless of whether or not they make the actual field, they should be happy with the progress they've made as a team that was completely blown up just two seasons ago.

And they get another signature win...

Man, don't look now, but the Vols are making a decent last-minute push for the tournament again.

 

[MickZagger]

My Zags beat BYU on Thursday and were #1 in all the land!!!

 

[NOVoodoo]

Iowa is a very well established collegiate program. They can get top regional talent and pretty good non-regional talent. Iowa State has been very good lately but they still don't have the pedigree and I can only assume that all the kids growing up in that area didn't grow up dreaming of playing for Iowa State.

I get that Hoiberg has had some shady practices, but I don't really blame him. Other coaches are pissed that hes picked up kids who they've cast out of the DI fraternity? Who cares? And have any of them been problematic in their time at Iowa State? Hes getting talented kids through a legal process and using his reputation as a former NBA player to his advantage. To my knowledge hes getting a lot out of these talented athletes as well and keeping them in line.

How the hell is Iowa a more established basketball program than Iowa State? Since 2000, Iowa St.'s been to four tournaments, whereas Iowa's been to three. Not to mention the Hawkeyes haven't made the tournament once in the past seven seasons, and the Cyclones have also made the sweet 16 more recently. How is Iowa more established?

 

[VanillaGorilla]

HOW BOUT THEM VOLS