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PtldPlatypus said:
Actually, the difference isn't really that great. Gay is being assisted on 58% of his FG this year, with Harkless at 65%.
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On (probably) significantly more attempts, so the difference is pretty great. Putbacks aren't "assisted" per say either, and I'm willing to bet a bigger percentage of Harkless's shots are putbacks.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
Bad? No. Worth his salary on this team? Doubtful.
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He's paid what, 14 millionish a year? Honestly I think hes worth that. Especially next year with the cap going up.

Edit: he's paid an average of 13.3 million over 3 years. That's a good contract for him. But he has a player option for after next season.
 
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B-Roy said:
Putbacks aren't "assisted" per say either, and I'm willing to bet a bigger percentage of Harkless's shots are putbacks.
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You say that like it's a bad thing. Honestly, you can't even really compare their stats on the season since Harkless' role has been so undefined. But I'd much rather see what he can do with increased minutes at the 3--possibly even starting--than I would have the team trade for Rudy Gay, despite all his wonderful shot-creating qualities..
 
PtldPlatypus said:
You say that like it's a bad thing. Honestly, you can't even really compare their stats on the season since Harkless' role has been so undefined. But I'd much rather see what he can do with increased minutes at the 3--possibly even starting--than I would have the team trade for Rudy Gay, despite all his wonderful shot-creating qualities..
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I'm not saying it's bad, I'm just saying they aren't comparable. Harkless is a role player that thrives on dunks and putbacks. Gay is a player defense have to gameplan for. Their effect on an offense (or opposing defense) is not the same regardless of their TS%.

I don't want Rudy Gay either, for what it's worth.
 
Natebishop3 said:
Butler/Gasol... I would give up CJ/Leonard/Vonleh/Kaman/Hendo.

Would that be enough?
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Yeah I think it would. CJ isn't available though; I just don't see us trading him in any scenario. There is risk bringing in an unknown player even if he's a potential all star. We know CJ fits well with Dame, their moms are best friends. Butler has issues with teammates and jealousy. Maybe he works out fine here but it's an unknown.

I don't think we do CJ for Butler straight up. Eventually Neil may trade for anther Allstar but it'll be with other pieces from the team. The plan to do that Is build up the trade value of the other parts.
 
JFizzleRaider said:
He's paid what, 14 millionish a year? Honestly I think hes worth that. Especially next year with the cap going up.
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Huh, I thought he was making significantly more than that--guess not. Surprisingly, his salary's basically only about a million more than Young (for whom I was just advocating earlier). And their advanced stats are actually pretty similar, although I still think I like what Young brings to the table better than Gay.

I'd still like to see more Harkless, but I guess I could grow to accept a Gay trade if it were to happen, however unlikely that may be.
 
Huh? CJ for Butler straight up is one of the VERY few deals I would actually do. They aren't moving Butler though.
 
JFizzleRaider said:
He's paid what, 14 millionish a year? Honestly I think hes worth that. Especially next year with the cap going up.

Edit: he's paid an average of 13.3 million over 3 years. That's a good contract for him. But he has a player option for after next season.
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For fantasy basketball yes we should get him. To build a team that can win no way. I'd rather try to resign Hendo, Harkless, Crabbe. Two of them are better today than Gay and Harkless might be able to get there. Gay expects to start, get minutes, get shots which in the long term lowers the value of all other players on the team.
 
Draco said:
Yeah I think it would. CJ isn't available though; I just don't see us trading him in any scenario. There is risk bringing in an unknown player even if he's a potential all star. We know CJ fits well with Dame, their moms are best friends. Butler has issues with teammates and jealousy. Maybe he works out fine here but it's an unknown.

I don't think we do CJ for Butler straight up. Eventually Neil may trade for anther Allstar but it'll be with other pieces from the team. The plan to do that Is build up the trade value of the other parts.
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Wow--I know Neil's high on both CJ and chemistry, but that's a pretty bold statement. Butler is arguably a top-10 player in the league, given his all-NBA-caliber defense. I don't know if there are any front office exec's who would turn down that deal if in Neil's shoes. But then again--who knows?
 
Draco said:
For fantasy basketball yes we should get him. To build a team that can win no way. I'd rather try to resign Hendo, Harkless, Crabbe. Two of them are better today than Gay and Harkless might be able to get there. Gay expects to start, get minutes, get shots which in the long term lowers the value of all other players on the team.
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Yeah I don't agree that harkless, hendo or crabbe are better players than Rudy gay. Crabbe might get there, but he isn't there yet.

Rudy gay is interesting. He is an established scorer, and has the body type of a good defender. If Neil thinks he can have a career renaissance with us (kinda like zbo did with Memphis) I'd hope he would jump all over getting Rudy gay
 
PtldPlatypus said:
Wow--I know Neil's high on both CJ and chemistry, but that's a pretty bold statement. Butler is arguably a top-10 player in the league, given his all-NBA-caliber defense. I don't know if there are any front office exec's who would turn down that deal if in Neil's shoes. But then again--who knows?
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Don't necessarily disagree; to a third party Butler is certainly more valuable over CJ. But we aren't a third party. Neil and Dame have a high vested interest in CJ and any future improvements he has. Is a Lillard Bulter duo with the role players we have left a contender? I'd say certainly no; so we'd still be looking to acquire that third borderline Allstar. But then we'd have lost Vonleh and other assets, plus have the huge risk of Butler being a worse fit with the team or personality wise with Dame.

I think Neil is trying to grab the pieces and flexibility to trade for a Butler level star someday; but it needs to be a more final piece to building a contender as when he got CP3. It shouldn't be an intermediate step.
 
JFizzleRaider said:
Yeah I don't agree that harkless, hendo or crabbe are better players than Rudy gay. Crabbe might get there, but he isn't there yet.

Rudy gay is interesting. He is an established scorer, and has the body type of a good defender. If Neil thinks he can have a career renaissance with us (kinda like zbo did with Memphis) I'd hope he would jump all over getting Rudy gay
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He's a devisive player. If we needed a volume scorer off the bench or in the starting lineup such as the 2013 Blazers I'd have interest. But a team that is years away from contending would be worse with him in the long run. Guess it depends how you define "better" player. I value attitude, defense, unselfishness, role with the team as a small part of the equation. Gay is declining athletically while the other may improve. I don't see us having any interest.
 
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Schilly said:
Cleveland Trying to Unload Varejao on us apparently
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I'd like to see us do it. Yes he's owed $10 million next season but we could get unprotected first in 2021 and pick swaps. Likely we don't need that cap space next summer and will be very happy with those picks. If we do need the cap space we could ship a lesser asset with Varejao contract to one of the 20 teams with space in the summer. Winwin if Neil can get the right picks from them.
 
Draco said:
He's a decisive player. If we needed a volume scorer off the bench or in the starting lineup such as the 2013 Blazers I'd have interest. But a team that is years away from contending would be worse with him in the long run. Guess it depends how you define "better" player. I value attitude, defense, unselfishness, role with the team as a small part of the equation. Gay is declining athletically while the other may improve. I don't see us having any interest.
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He's 29. He has plenty of years left. He averaged 21 ppg, 6 rpg, 4 apg and 1 spg last year. We need more talent on the team
 
Draco said:
Don't necessarily disagree; to a third party Butler is certainly more valuable over CJ. But we aren't a third party. Neil and Dame have a high vested interest in CJ and any future improvements he has. Is a Lillard Bulter duo with the role players we have left a contender? I'd say certainly no; so we'd still be looking to acquire that third borderline Allstar. But then we'd have lost Vonleh and other assets, plus have the huge risk of Butler being a worse fit with the team or personality wise with Dame.

I think Neil is trying to grab the pieces and flexibility to trade for a Butler level star someday; but it needs to be a more final piece to building a contender as when he got CP3. It shouldn't be an intermediate step.
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Except getting CP3 didn't make them a contender. Never even been to WCF.
 
OSUBlazerfan said:
OMG heeeeeelll no. He's got three years left!
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Only next season is partially guaranteed for $10mil. It's a huge negative value contract but in the right trade could end up being similar to the Celtics taking on Brooklyn Gerald Wallace contract for picks.

Cap space is going to be nearly worthless in the summer so if we can get any significant asset for ours now go do it.
 
KeepOnRollin said:
Huh? CJ for Butler straight up is one of the VERY few deals I would actually do. They aren't moving Butler though.
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I've heard that they are actually a bit iffy on Butler - they don't like his leadership. Given that the luster has worn off, I wouldn't do anything beyond CJ for Butler (unless is someone like Pat or Tim). I think they'd much rather have CJ's leadership than Butler's FTA. As nice as it'd be to have a wing who gets to the FT line, I'm not even sure I'd trade CJ for Butler straight-up - Butler is two years older, already on a non-rookie contract, and kinda seems like a bit of an ass. The only things he's better at are defense and getting to the line (which, again, would both be nice).
 
blue9 said:
I've heard that they are actually a bit iffy on Butler - they don't like his leadership. Given that the luster has worn off, I wouldn't do anything beyond CJ for Butler (unless is someone like Pat or Tim). I think they'd much rather have CJ's leadership than Butler's FTA. As nice as it'd be to have a wing who gets to the FT line, I'm not even sure I'd trade CJ for Butler straight-up - Butler is two years older, already on a non-rookie contract, and kinda seems like a bit of an ass. The only things he's better at are defense and getting to the line (which, again, would both be nice).
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There are only 2 SGs* in the league that I would trade CJ for. Klay and Butler. We all know Klay won't happen. Pretty small list. Amazing how far CJ has come. Of course I would trade him for other positions but it would have a to be a stud.

*I consider Harden a PG even though he is a SG and I wouldn't want him of course anyways cus he he is a douche.
 
PtldPlatypus said:
And how much of a premium do you want the team paying for that ability, and what other attributes are you willing to sacrifice? Sure, it would be great to have a stud-defender/ball-handler/long-range-bomber/point-forward, but that's not a reality. Given available options, and the skill-sets of our starting backcourt, I'm much more interested in a an athletic slasher/defender than in a shot-creating/ball-hogging sieve, especially at their respective price tags.
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Excellent question. I don't want strictly an offensive player who is the 3rd option. And I don't want a ball hog either. Obviously a Kawhi Leonard would be ideal....... but unrealistic. And there might not be even a poor man's version of Kawhi out there this summer. So we might have to wait a year or two to get lucky. But for us to win it all, and that is the main objective, we will need at least an excellent 3 and D guy....... who can also attack the basket when pressed on the perimeter.

I think for now we start Aminu or Harkless in that position, but look for an upgrade. We can finish the games with Crabbe as the 3 and D guy. He is long, (6'11 1/4 wingspan) can hit the three, and he can put the ball on the floor and attack the basket with his excellent runner.....and can shoot free throws. That combo might even work long term if Vonleh (or someone else) turns into a dependable scorer at the 4 spot.

Our starting SF needs to be able to shoot well though, not just a slasher. He needs a dependable outside shot. Even if it is a mid range shot.
 
JFizzleRaider said:
That sounds more like he's just assuming us or Philly due to available cap space.

Hellllll no to Anderson varejao
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Only 1 year after this, at 9.3. Double the cost of kaman, but could actually pay if healthy. We could be looking at 40 million in cap space next year. Depending on the return? I'd happily take him.
 
RR7 said:
Only 1 year after this, at 9.3. Double the cost of kaman, but could actually pay if healthy. We could be looking at 40 million in cap space next year. Depending on the return? I'd happily take him.
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If they give us a 1st then I could be convinced. It would be better that the first was routed from another team though as CLE of course is going to be picking in the late 20's for the next 5 years.
 
JFizzleRaider said:
That sounds more like he's just assuming us or Philly due to available cap space.

Hellllll no to Anderson varejao
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Or a lot of agents, teams like to put it out that Portland is interested because they know Blazers never comment; they hope it will help bid up the return.
 
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