Olshey to the Sixers?

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tester551 said:
This is a perfect reply.... Much respect.

Yes, we were a decent team - but a LONG way from being true contenders.
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Are we? It’s been done before:

1989 Blazers got swept in first round.
Blazers traded for Buck and drafted Cliffy.
1990 Blazers go to NBA Finals.
 
wizenheimer said:
top 10?

Markelle Fultz
Lonzo Ball
Jayson Tatum
Josh Jackson
De'Aaron Fox
Jonathan Isaac
Lauri Markkanen
Malik Monk
Luke Kennard
Donovan Mitchell
Bam Adebayo
John Collins
Jarrett Allen
OG Anunoby
Kyle Kuzma
Derrick White
Josh Hart
Thomas Bryant
Dillon Brooks
Monte Morris

he'll have to pass more than half that list, and right now, he's behind just about all of them. Meanwhile, while the timer for Zach's potential to arrive ticks away, so does the timer for Dame's prime
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Again, we were 8-3 with Zach this year. Give Zach one full year at starting PF before passing judgement.
 
KSF-ERIC said:
Again, we were 8-3 with Zach this year. Give Zach one full year at starting PF before passing judgement.
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Even if that were true, the clock is ticking on Dame's prime. What if it doesn't work? That's another year of Dame's prime wasted. We know that any number of the guys that were picked behind him would have been starters on this team already.
 
KSF-ERIC said:
Again, we were 8-3 with Zach this year. Give Zach one full year at starting PF before passing judgement.
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I think that 8-3 'stat'...that you constantly post, is completely meaningless. It sure as hell is without context. Those wins weren't registered because Zach has some transcendental impact on Portland that can't be measured in numbers or seen with the eyeball. Those wins might have happened because Dame was averaging 40 points, not because Zach was glaring at the official after another foul call
 
wizenheimer said:
I think that 8-3 'stat'...that you constantly post, is completely meaningless. It sure as hell is without context. Those wins weren't registered because Zach has some transcendental impact on Portland that can't be measured in numbers or seen with the eyeball. Those wins might have happened because Dame was averaging 40 points, not because Zach was glaring at the official after another foul call
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Man, do you have a Debbie Downer stat or take for all occasions? Zach will be whatever he’s going to become as a player based on talent, coaching, hard work and health. It isn’t likely to be impacted by who thought he was a bust vs who thought he had room to improve. As long as he’s a Blazer, I’ll root for him to succeed.
 
Shit Bam Abedeyo might even be better than Nurkic forget just Zach Collins. This guy is a monster.
 
AldoTrapani said:
Thats not my job. I don’t get paid multi millions to evaluate players with a scouting team behind me. That’s your “gm bros” job
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No it's your job to monday morning QB your ass off at EVERY available chance. It's easy to be right 3 years after the fact isn't it? Find me that link of your 2017 DAY OF draft analysis please.
 
e_blazer said:
Man, do you have a Debbie Downer stat or take for all occasions? Zach will be whatever he’s going to become as a player based on talent, coaching, hard work and health. It isn’t likely to be impacted by who thought he was a bust vs who thought he had room to improve. As long as he’s a Blazer, I’ll root for him to succeed.
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what you cal debbie downer I call realistic. People keep saying how good Zach is going to be while excusing how good he isn't. I'm looking at what he's done and basing my opinion on that. The number of young Blazer players that never come close to the upside many people forecast is legion. So yeah, I'm not a big fan of potential.
 
wizenheimer said:
what you cal debbie downer I call realistic. People keep saying how good Zach is going to be while excusing how good he isn't. I'm looking at what he's done and basing my opinion on that. The number of young Blazer players that never come close to the upside many people forecast is legion. So yeah, I'm not a big fan of potential.
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This is the way it plays out in my head when wizenheimer sees some poor ignorant poster say something positive about a Blazer player other than Dame:

"What? DEFCON 4! Some idiot just said something good about a Blazer player other than Dame! I've got STATS! I'll show that lame brain six ways from Sunday that he is WRONG!!!"

Mrs. wizenheimer: "Now calm down dear, it's just a message board."

"Screw that! These guys will never get it. How can you say something good about a player based on POTENTIAL? Potential my ASS. Realism is all that counts! I'm pulling up my spreadsheet of basketball minutiae and I'll pound some sense into his head!"

Mrs. wizenheimer: "Look, someone said that Terry has done pretty well taking the team to the playoffs seven straight seasons."

"OMG!!! After all these years he can't even figure out how to beat a simple trap on Dame!!! HE'S HOPELESS AND HE HAS TO GO!"

Mrs. wizenheimer: "But didn't you just say that all of the Blazers players are bad except for Dame? Isn't getting to the playoffs good considering that?"

"ARE YOU TRYING TO KILL ME?? Next thing you'll be saying Olshey is a decent GM!"

Mrs. wizenheimer: "But dear, if you don't like the players, or the coach or the GM, or really anything about the team, why do you care so much?"

BECAUSE I'M A F'ING BLAZER FAN!!! Now let me deal with this idiot on the board.
 
e_blazer said:
This is the way it plays out in my head when wizenheimer sees some poor ignorant poster say something positive about a Blazer player other than Dame:

"What? DEFCON 4! Some idiot just said something good about a Blazer player other than Dame! I've got STATS! I'll show that lame brain six ways from Sunday that he is WRONG!!!"

Mrs. wizenheimer: "Now calm down dear, it's just a message board."

"Screw that! These guys will never get it. How can you say something good about a player based on POTENTIAL? Potential my ASS. Realism is all that counts! I'm pulling up my spreadsheet of basketball minutiae and I'll pound some sense into his head!"

Mrs. wizenheimer: "Look, someone said that Terry has done pretty well taking the team to the playoffs seven straight seasons."

"OMG!!! After all these years he can't even figure out how to beat a simple trap on Dame!!! HE'S HOPELESS AND HE HAS TO GO!"

Mrs. wizenheimer: "But didn't you just say that all of the Blazers players are bad except for Dame? Isn't getting to the playoffs good considering that?"

"ARE YOU TRYING TO KILL ME?? Next thing you'll be saying Olshey is a decent GM!"

Mrs. wizenheimer: "But dear, if you don't like the players, or the coach or the GM, or really anything about the team, why do you care so much?"

BECAUSE I'M A F'ING BLAZER FAN!!! Now let me deal with this idiot on the board.
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pretty funny but can you tell me what it is I said about Zach in those posts above that is wrong?
 
wizenheimer said:
pretty funny but can you tell me what it is I said about Zach in those posts above that is wrong?
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Look, the jury is still out on Zach. This should have been the year that he had the opportunity for a breakthrough season. That was one of the things I was most looking forward to seeing almost a year ago when this misbegotten season began. Injuries stole his season not once, but twice. I don’t put a lot of stock in prior year stats for a young big like Zach. Guys like him often blossom three or four years into their careers. Until I get to see him next season now, I don’t know whether he’s a starter or a role bench player. I guess I put more stock in potential than you do, but ultimately what difference does it make? He’s got to show his worth on the court and next season is put up or shut up time.
 
e_blazer said:
Look, the jury is still out on Zach. This should have been the year that he had the opportunity for a breakthrough season. That was one of the things I was most looking forward to seeing almost a year ago when this misbegotten season began. Injuries stole his season not once, but twice. I don’t put a lot of stock in prior year stats for a young big like Zach. Guys like him often blossom three or four years into their careers. Until I get to see him next season now, I don’t know whether he’s a starter or a role bench player. I guess I put more stock in potential than you do, but ultimately what difference does it make? He’s got to show his worth on the court and next season is put up or shut up time.
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I don't really disagree with any of that. I'm just not sold on Zach's upside as much as some. He did do better last season so that would probably be the better platform for gauging upside

something else....I see it said quite often that bigs take longer to develop. You mentioned 4 years in. I'm wondering how many really do that or if it's more myth than reality? I'm truly not sure. I mean, it was said repeatedly about Meyers but that never panned out. It didn't for TRob either. Nurkic was certainly showing a lot more earlier in terms of per/possession and advanced stats, but maybe he's an unfair comp for Zach

Jaren Jackson is well ahead of Zach and he's 2 years younger...but he was a 4th pick. Domantas Sabonis has certainly been more developed at similar career points than Zach, and you could see pretty early what his upside was

I'm trying to think of a good comp for Zach; somebody tall and fast but light with a core strength issue. Maybe Clifford Robinson. He came in at 23 and made a pretty sizable jump between his 3rd and 4th season. But that was a jump more due to increased minutes rather than a major leap in efficiency
 
wizenheimer said:
I don't really disagree with any of that. I'm just not sold on Zach's upside as much as some. He did do better last season so that would probably be the better platform for gauging upside

something else....I see it said quite often that bigs take longer to develop. You mentioned 4 years in. I'm wondering how many really do that or if it's more myth than reality? I'm truly not sure. I mean, it was said repeatedly about Meyers but that never panned out. It didn't for TRob either. Nurkic was certainly showing a lot more earlier in terms of per/possession and advanced stats, but maybe he's an unfair comp for Zach

Jaren Jackson is well ahead of Zach and he's 2 years younger...but he was a 4th pick. Domantas Sabonis has certainly been more developed at similar career points than Zach, and you could see pretty early what his upside was

I'm trying to think of a good comp for Zach; somebody tall and fast but light with a core strength issue. Maybe Clifford Robinson. He came in at 23 and made a pretty sizable jump between his 3rd and 4th season. But that was a jump more due to increased minutes rather than a major leap in efficiency
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Good question. Just for fun I looked at Kevin McHale’s career stats. McHale was a #3 pick and a much more gifted player than Zach. He had the advantage of 4 years at Minnesota where Zach only played 1year at Gonzaga (and didn’t play much). Look at how much McHale improved in most stat categories between his first and fourth season.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/mchalke01.html

I don’t think anyone expects Zach to come close to McHale’s career, but I do think it shows that there is hope for improvement.
 
e_blazer said:
Man, do you have a Debbie Downer stat or take for all occasions? Zach will be whatever he’s going to become as a player based on talent, coaching, hard work and health. It isn’t likely to be impacted by who thought he was a bust vs who thought he had room to improve. As long as he’s a Blazer, I’ll root for him to succeed.
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Hes trash dude
 
e_blazer said:
Good question. Just for fun I looked at Kevin McHale’s career stats. McHale was a #3 pick and a much more gifted player than Zach. He had the advantage of 4 years at Minnesota where Zach only played 1year at Gonzaga (and didn’t play much). Look at how much McHale improved in most stat categories between his first and fourth season.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/mchalke01.html

I don’t think anyone expects Zach to come close to McHale’s career, but I do think it shows that there is hope for improvement.
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ok...no real argument with that

I'd be a little cautious about comparing to players from 25-40 years ago though. They almost all came into the NBA after 3 or 4 years in college. And many of them saw significant jumps in numbers over their first 3-4 seasons. I'm guessing that was because the NBA was a much more physical game back then, especially for bigs. Constant contact defense; hand checking. Players needed to develop core strength to excel. I'm not sure that's much of a factor in today's NBA. Much more perimeter oriented and much less allowable contact.

now, on paper, that would seem to be an advantage for Zach. While strength isn't as important anymore, length is still an advantage and Zach has that. He also has good mobility, at least he does for his height. I've seen him utilize those tools in certain situations. For instance, he was able to frustrate Millsap in the playoffs last season. But I've also seen Zach get beat repeatedly off the dribble by stretch-4's and bigger SF's he's switched onto. A big reason he's had so much foul trouble and it shows there may be limits to what he can do using length and mobility to defend the perimeter.

I'm still kind of capping Zach's ceiling at Aminu in my mind. I think he'll be more efficient offensively, but not as versatile defensively. Maybe about the same as a rebounder. Basically a default PF because there's not a better alternative at starter. He'll get that opportunity though as long as Olshey is GM because I don't see Zach being traded. I just hope Olshey doesn't rush into a big extension this off-season like he tried to do with Meyers
 
Will his Moreyball clash with Doc?

Guessing some personnel moves are coming
 
e_blazer said:
You must be a closet Sixers fan. ;)

Morey will make the same financial disaster or their cap situation as he did Houston's.
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No, I just wanted them to hire Olshey.
 
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