Olshey

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Is it time to move on from Neil Olshey

  • Yes, he has assembled a mediocre team with a horrible contract situation

    Votes: 17 65.4%

  • No, somebody/something else is to blame

    Votes: 9 34.6%
  • Total voters
    26
Rastapopoulos

Rastapopoulos

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 30, 2008
Messages
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Points
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People are bitching about Stotts, but what about Olshey? I mean, what the fuck is his plan?
 
It depends on what the roster looks like at the end of the season
 
I think it is Olshey's fault that the team is so specific with Dame and CJ at guards that when we get an injury to the defensive forwards the whole thing falls apart.
 
Can we not wait until the trade deadline like last year?
 
I don’t know what to believe in anymore. I (seriously) saw the Olshey family at Bridgeport this last Sunday. He was dressed in sweats and looked like a shlubby suburban Sunday dad AND they were coming out of the parking structure (at one on the places in PDX that actually has valet parking for gawd’s sake!!). I felt like I was in a bad Wizard of Oz movie. Pay no attention to the man behind the three piece suit and carefully sculpted hair. He’s just like one of us (minus Mom’s basement). It kinda sorta put things a little more into perspective in a weird way......
 
tlongII said:
I blame injuries. Olshey isn’t blameless though.
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you know, Portland closed the season on a hot streak and made it to the WCF with Kanter filling in for Nurkic, and Kanter was playing injured at the end

Nurkic being out was already baked into the first half of the season. So, while he's injured, I'm not sure I'm buying that as much of an excuse, especially considering Portland has Whiteside as a replacement. Besides Nurkic, the only player out is Zach, until Dame last night. In terms of winshares, Dame and Whiteside have accounted for 4 of Portland's 5 wins. And Zach is only 6th on the team in winshares/48. Simons is higher and he's only credited with 0.5 winshares

the point being that I think people are leaning too heavily on the injury excuse. A bunch of teams are missing important players:

Lakers: AD 1, Kuzma 4, Rondo 10, Bradley 4, Daniels 4
Houston: Westbrook 2, Capela 2, House 3, Hartenstein 11, Gordon 5 and has had surgery and will miss 6 more weeks
LAC: Kawhi 5, Paul George 11, Beverly 2, Shamet 4
Minn: Wiggins 3, KAT 2, Teague 4
Phx: Ayton 12, Rubio 3, Baynes 1
Sac: Fox 5, Bagley 12, Ariza 2, Farrel 5
Pels: Holiday 2, Ingram 4, Ball 6, Redick 1, Favors 5, Moore 5, Okafor 5
Celtics: Brown 3, Hayward 5, Theis 2, Kanter 7
Tor: Lowry 5, Ibaka 5, RHJ 7

and all those teams have better records than Portland, in most cases, much better. Portland would be better if Zach was healthy, but the way they've been playing I doubt Zach would have added more than a win...at most. Again, we all knew Nurkic was out till 2020. But the expectations for the rest of the roster have been cratered by the reality of watching them perform as badly as they have.

Portland only has 2 players above the league average PER of 15.0. The same two players (Dame/Hassan) are the only ones with a positive BPM (last year they had 9). Once again, those two Blazers are the only ones with a winshare/48 over .100 (last season, they had 10). Certainly, those numbers are skewed by the winning percentages of the two teams, but mostly, that's not skew...that's a bunch of inconsistent Blazers playing like scrubs
 
The NBA has never had so much talent across the league that I can remember.....I'm not going to kick the Blazers when they're down...Popovich is below us in the standings ...the west is not an easy conference at all. Lot of season left
 
wizenheimer said:
the point being that I think people are leaning too heavily on the injury excuse.
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Year after year, poor Olshey gets blamed for not doing anything, and I for one am sick of it. This season, he finds himself, lacking both starting forwards Aminu and Harkless, who were our defensive core since the similar disappearance of Aldridge and Batum 4 long years ago, trying to the best of his abilities to overcome this hole in which he finds himself. It's like waking into a shocking bad dream after a 4-year vacation in Hawaii. Would you want to go through such an unexpected surprise? Then have some sympathy.
 
THE HCP said:
I blame the fans for unrealistic expectations on a team with 8 new players......dash in some injuries and this is what you get.
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yeah, and the fact that I believe last year they overachieved, leading people to believe that was normal and expected. Of course, most people dont want to acknowledge the overachieving and hand out credit for that.
 
blazedanugz said:
It depends on what the roster looks like at the end of the season
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This is by far the most practical approach as his Harkless, Meyers, and Turner for Baze and Whiteside exchange SHOULD only have been an attempt to kick the tires until they are unloaded in February.

His two biggest summers in terms of serious transactions were the summer of 2016 and 2019. If he doesn't hit a home run this February, it's going to be hard for me to be optimstic he'll put together a great summer plan.
 
calvin natt said:
yeah, and the fact that I believe last year they overachieved, leading people to believe that was normal and expected. Of course, most people dont want to acknowledge the overachieving and hand out credit for that.
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So true, so so true. The overachieving acknolwedgment would require many to back off their long-term scapegoats. This roster was not near the top 4 in the NBA last year, yet that is where we ended up.
 
calvin natt said:
yeah, and the fact that I believe last year they overachieved, leading people to believe that was normal and expected. Of course, most people dont want to acknowledge the overachieving and hand out credit for that.
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wut? I don't agree

here are the standings last year from Portland on down:

Portland Trail Blazers* (3) 53 29
Houston Rockets* (4) 53 29
Utah Jazz* (5) 50 32
Oklahoma City Thunder* (6) 49 33
San Antonio Spurs* (7) 48 34
Los Angeles Clippers* (8) 48 34
Sacramento Kings (9) 39 43
Los Angeles Lakers (10) 37 45
Minnesota Timberwolves (11) 36 46
Memphis Grizzlies (12) 33 49
New Orleans Pelicans (13) 33 49
Dallas Mavericks (14) 33 49
Phoenix Suns (15) 19 63

tell me, which of the teams below Portland were definitely better? And if none were definitely better, how was it that Portland overachieved by getting 3rd seed?

sorry, but I think this "overachieving" stuff is kind of ass-covering malarkey for what's happening this season. Last season wasn't 2015-16 when Portland definitely overachieved. But the Blazers won 49 games in 2017-18 and made it to the playoffs for the 5th straight year. Winning 4 more game the next season and actually advancing in the playoffs isn't over-achieving, it's an expected & hoped-for progression for a veteran team.

now, if you want to argue the Blazers had a favorable 1st round match-up then fine. And in the 2nd round, you could argue they benefited by playing a team who was in the playoffs for the first time. But those kinds of circumstances happen in the playoffs every single year. And you're still left with a team that won 49 and 53 games the previous 2 seasons being 5-10 and playing like splat. Of course, it's not the same team is it? The GM decided to gut the long-standing depth of the team and replace it with scrubs and flawed players while telling everybody how the team had improved it's shooting and floor spacing and cleared the way for more talented players. Yeah right....spin us another one...let's see...I know...last year they overachieved!
 
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KingSpeed said:
He drafted Dame, CJ, Simons, and Little and hit on all 4.
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I notice you didn't mention Meyers, Biggie and Zach. And you didn't mention better players who were drafted later (the only one that's not true of is Dame, and there's a long running dispute as to whether or not he actually was Olshey's pick).

KingSpeed said:
He traded for Bazemore and Whiteside, both of whom are attractive expiring contracts for trade season in Februrary or sooner.
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We've heard that before. He traded for Whiteside because the Heat didn't want him, despite his "attractiveness" and are thriving without him.
 
wizenheimer said:
wut? I don't agree

here are the standings last year from Portland on down:

Portland Trail Blazers* (3) 53 29
Houston Rockets* (4) 53 29
Utah Jazz* (5) 50 32
Oklahoma City Thunder* (6) 49 33
San Antonio Spurs* (7) 48 34
Los Angeles Clippers* (8) 48 34
Sacramento Kings (9) 39 43
Los Angeles Lakers (10) 37 45
Minnesota Timberwolves (11) 36 46
Memphis Grizzlies (12) 33 49
New Orleans Pelicans (13) 33 49
Dallas Mavericks (14) 33 49
Phoenix Suns (15) 19 63

tell me, which of the teams below Portland were definitely better? And if none were definitely better, how was it that Portland overachieved by getting 3rd seed?

sorry, but I think this "overachieving" stuff is kind of ass-covering malarkey for what's happening this season. Last season wasn't 2015-16 when Portland definitely overachieved. But the Blazers won 49 games in 2017-18 and made it to the playoffs for the 5th straight year. Winning 4 more game the next season and actually advancing in the playoffs isn't over-achieving, it's an expected & hoped-for progression for a veteran team.

now, if you want to argue the Blazers had a favorable 1st round match-up then fine. And in the 2nd round, you could argue they benefited by playing a team who was in the playoffs for the first time. But those kinds of circumstances happen in the playoffs every single year. And you're still left with a team that won 49 and 53 games the previous 2 seasons being 5-10 and playing like splat. Of course, it's not the same team is it? The GM decided to gut the long-standing depth of the team and replace it with scrubs and flawed players while telling everybody how the team had improved it's shooting and floor spacing and cleared the way for more talented players. Yeah right....spin us another one...let's see...I know...last year they overachieved!
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I think they overachieved. I don’t think they were necessarily better than Houston, Utah, SAS, maybe the Clippers. Not to mention a few teams in the East. They made it to the NBAs Final Four. Do I think they were the 3rd or 4th best team in the entire NBA last year? No way. But they ended in that spot which is awesome. Unfortunately that’s the bar now for their fans. I think this season has been somewhat predictable, needing time to mesh, which nearly everyone had forgotten about before the team played 10 games. As they struggle, I look at the players themselves as a main reason. Hassan doesn’t play hard all the time. CJ gets selfish and hasn’t played well. Hood and Baze are inconsistent. Then we have Skal, Little who are just getting their feet wet. Lillard has been outstanding. Tolliver has to be better. Gasol never played. Mario has been terrible. There is blame to go around. I usually am the last one to just blame the coach, it seems like an easy way out without knowing what’s actually going on in the locker room or huddles or practice. Neil tried to address the needs of the team and we don’t know yet how they will end. My only real criticism is his reluctance to deal CJ. If I had the time or cared I would go back to last seasons threads and find the gazillion complaints about meyers, Aminu, turner and Harkless. Now everyone wants them back. It’s insane.
 
calvin natt said:
I think they overachieved. I don’t think they were necessarily better than Houston, Utah, SAS, maybe the Clippers. Not to mention a few teams in the East. They made it to the NBAs Final Four. Do I think they were the 3rd or 4th best team in the entire NBA last year? No way. But they ended in that spot which is awesome. Unfortunately that’s the bar now for their fans. I think this season has been somewhat predictable, needing time to mesh, which nearly everyone had forgotten about before the team played 10 games. As they struggle, I look at the players themselves as a main reason. Hassan doesn’t play hard all the time. CJ gets selfish and hasn’t played well. Hood and Baze are inconsistent. Then we have Skal, Little who are just getting their feet wet. Lillard has been outstanding. Tolliver has to be better. Gasol never played. Mario has been terrible. There is blame to go around. I usually am the last one to just blame the coach, it seems like an easy way out without knowing what’s actually going on in the locker room or huddles or practice. Neil tried to address the needs of the team and we don’t know yet how they will end. My only real criticism is his reluctance to deal CJ. If I had the time or cared I would go back to last seasons threads and find the gazillion complaints about meyers, Aminu, turner and Harkless. Now everyone wants them back. It’s insane.
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I don't think it's a case that people want those players back as much as it is a recognition of the inadequacy of the replacements. For instance, I think Aminu and Harkless got significantly underrated around here. I don't mean so much they were underrated generically as players, but underrated in terms of their importance as cogs in the machine the Blazers had created. Some of us were pointing that out; we worried about defense and rebounding, two things those two did very well as a tandem. And so it's no surprise at all, to us, that two things this team has really regressed in is defense and rebounding. And those two things can win a lot of game. The other side of that is they can lose a lot of games if done poorly and we're seeing that

I watched Olshey's press conferences when he was touting the new players. He kept talking about spacing and shooting and how the offense was going to open up. About the "incredible" talent the Blazers were going to have. I swear, it was almost like Simons was the next Michael Jordan, Hezonja was Larry Bird, and Tolliver was Robert Horry. It was over the top. It was an implied dismissal of the impact of the departing players, and the summer was filled with his miscalculations, both past and present

by that I mean that Olshey didn't have a lot of good options last summer. But whose fault was that? Basically, 2019 Olshey was hamstrung by the decisions of 2016 Olshey and the chickens were coming home to roost. Of course, 2016 Olshey made a brief appearance in 2019 and gave CJ a crazy new extension

it's an entire pattern that makes it hard for me to accept the two main excuses being put out to rationalize the situation: injuries and turnover. Several other teams are dealing with injuries, and several other teams are incorporating a lot of new faces, but they don't look like the dumpster fire that Portland has been so far. And adding past over-achievement as the third leg of an excuse tripod isn't persuasive in my view

funny thing is, I'm still thinking the Blazers will start winning more games. The schedule will soften and they'll have stretches of home games. still think they'll probably be a playoff team, but I seriously doubt they'll have HCA
 
KingSpeed said:
He drafted Dame, CJ, Simons, and Little and hit on all 4. He traded for Bazemore and Whiteside, both of whom are attractive expiring contracts for trade season in Februrary or sooner.
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This is my main problem with Olshey. He has drafted good players, but three of them are variations of the same player--short shooting guards. Olshey's fault is not that he hasn't drafted good players, it's that he is all in on a starting unit with two short guards who are average defenders at best. He sees individual talent, but gets so locked in on the individuals he struggles to build a great team. The shortcomings of his construction are hidden somewhat when Nurkic, Collins and Harkless/Aminu/Little) man the other three positions. But, as soon as one or more of those is injured, the whole thing falls apart because there is no fall back plan.
 
wizenheimer said:
I don't think it's a case that people want those players back as much as it is a recognition of the inadequacy of the replacements. For instance, I think Aminu and Harkless got significantly underrated around here. I don't mean so much they were underrated generically as players, but underrated in terms of their importance as cogs in the machine the Blazers had created. Some of us were pointing that out; we worried about defense and rebounding, two things those two did very well as a tandem. And so it's no surprise at all, to us, that two things this team has really regressed in is defense and rebounding. And those two things can win a lot of game. The other side of that is they can lose a lot of games if done poorly and we're seeing that

I watched Olshey's press conferences when he was touting the new players. He kept talking about spacing and shooting and how the offense was going to open up. About the "incredible" talent the Blazers were going to have. I swear, it was almost like Simons was the next Michael Jordan, Hezonja was Larry Bird, and Tolliver was Robert Horry. It was over the top. It was an implied dismissal of the impact of the departing players, and the summer was filled with his miscalculations, both past and present

by that I mean that Olshey didn't have a lot of good options last summer. But whose fault was that? Basically, 2019 Olshey was hamstrung by the decisions of 2016 Olshey and the chickens were coming home to roost. Of course, 2016 Olshey made a brief appearance in 2019 and gave CJ a crazy new extension

it's an entire pattern that makes it hard for me to accept the two main excuses being put out to rationalize the situation: injuries and turnover. Several other teams are dealing with injuries, and several other teams are incorporating a lot of new faces, but they don't look like the dumpster fire that Portland has been so far. And adding past over-achievement as the third leg of an excuse tripod isn't persuasive in my view

funny thing is, I'm still thinking the Blazers will start winning more games. The schedule will soften and they'll have stretches of home games. still think they'll probably be a playoff team, but I seriously doubt they'll have HCA
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Everyone knew those two were good defenders. Maybe overrated, but solid. And everyone knew we needed a shooter. And everyone knew we had limited resources (how long are we going to talk about 2016, it is what it is). He flipped Turner and Bazemore and I dont recall anyone being opposed to that. Aminu was given $30M/3 years by Orlando, and we werent going to do that. Harkless was sent away with Meyers, another consistently railed against Blazer, to get Hassan. I dont recall many upset about that. Hezonja was a 4th pick, who Neil always liked, played well in NY when given opportunity, is 24 years old, and has a connection with Nurk. And he makes $1.7m. We have a track record for reclamation projects, this was a gamble well worth it. Mario needs to fucking play better. As for Neil's press conference, thats what NFL, MLB, NBA pressers are - a chance for the team to pump up their new guys. 100% are like that. Not sure what hes supposed to do. "Well I am excited about these guys but we'll see, this could backfire"?

I do not think Neil is blameless in this. But I am not big into the 20/20 hindsight this reeks of. And it always amazes me that when a team struggles it almost always goes to coach, GM.....then players. When its a players league, they are paid to perform, and are expected to at a MINIMUM give full effort and be competitive. Add to that new players, none of this is a shock to me. Yet. - maybe this will change in a month. Neil may have blown this, but I can see why he made the decisions he made.

In 2018/2019, the team overachieved - unless they were expected to go to the WCF. Thats the definition of overachieving, isnt it? Or did people have them pegged for going to the Western Conference Finals? If people thought that, and maybe they did, hat tip to them. I sure didnt. ESPN had them finishing at 43-39 (https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/24365036/nba-standings-predictions-espn-summer-forecast). They exceeded almost all expectations, and naturally (I dont blame anyone) that became the new bar. It just puts more attention on their bad start. Had they ended last year 43-39, just a notch over .500, maybe this start doesnt sting so much?
 
calvin natt said:
yeah, and the fact that I believe last year they overachieved, leading people to believe that was normal and expected. Of course, most people dont want to acknowledge the overachieving and hand out credit for that.
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The Blazers continuously overachieve. Almost every year! But let’s fire Stotts and Olshey though.
 
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