On the other hand…

[wizenheimer]

But they're going to field a title contending team around Jerami Grant?

or Simons....or Ayton....nope

 

[SharpesTriumph]

I appreciate the thread and think its a good discussion point. We have so many discussions here about what the Blazers SHOULD do it becomes a bit of an echo chamber with those I agree on. But your right its worth discussing what the Blazers actually WILL do as these are two very different things. I tend to agree they won't commit to a long rebuild even if strategically that is the most likely path to a title.

I don't like the idea at all as this team needs to aggressively rebuild like OKC did. First they traded every veteran they could for picks though, and took on veterans for picks, and then re-flipped some of those vets for more picks. Instead we seem to just hold onto vets until their trade value slowly deteriorates. OKC was only a horrible team for 2 seasons. Not committing 100% to an aggressive rebuild actually makes the rebuilding longer, slower, and many more years of heavy losses.

Ant & Thybulle for Randle does make a lot of sense for the Blazers if trying to win now. I'm not sure how good it is for NY but perhaps it would work. They already have a lot of guards, but they really needed some more offensive punch and they have a great D to cover Simons deficiencies. I don't think #14 is enough to move from 7>3 but yes I can see the theory of packaging the picks to move up. Both moves seem to continue this two timelines strategy that I question the Blazers will ever move away from.

Now I totally understand some people frustration with this path after Cronin never attempted to win at all with Dame. I always believed that door was closed when we did the Clippers trade, but I understand others held out hope Cronin would be able to give it a try. Instead it was a very unfulfilling conclusion to Dame's career in Portland.

Having the 3rd worst record for the epically bad 2024 draft and then getting back to purgatory for the epically strong 2025 draft does seem like the type of dumb move this Blazers leadership team would pursue.

 

[HoopsFanAZ]

Finish moving the useful, veteran pieces from the Dame trade and asset re-signings. Build with youth and draft capital. That’s what I expect Cronin to do.

Embrace the horror of another craptastic season and have hope for the lottery picks to build the next era of Blazers basketball.

 

[Boomchakalaka2]

But they're going to field a title contending team around Jerami Grant?

No! But they can try to create an environment whereby Scoot and Sharpe are growing and maturing by playing alongside some veteran talent level. Not all 13 players can be prospects. No player will develop and the culture will be one of losing. Just like Detroit.

 

[Boomchakalaka2]

Finish moving the useful, veteran pieces from the Dame trade and asset re-signings. Build with youth and draft capital. That’s what I expect Cronin to do.

Embrace the horror of another craptastic season and have hope for the lottery picks to build the next era of Blazers basketball.

I’d be surprised if more than two of our veterans are moved. Maybe at the trade deadline!

 

[MarinerDNA]

Honest question here.

What makes Cody Williams a better player than George here?
From my perspective, they are extremely similar in regards to strengths/weaknesses.

Inside scoring, mostly. George is a better shooter in every way, but Cody is a pretty good slasher and finisher. If you buy George developing more athleticism (nah) then I'd take George. We also don't know what will happen when Cody puts mass on his frame. I've got them ranked pretty close together.

 

[PCmor7]

This is a bullshit, shit on Dame thread. It's gross. Joe told us and Dame that he was going to build a contender around Dame so many times and then did the opposite after, every time making moves like it was going to be a rebuild not building towards immediate wins and now some are saying Joe can't even fully commit to that?

If that's the case fuck Joe and his apologists! (No personal insults intended)

OP never mentioned Dame. That was you guys that took the thread in this direction because of Dame sycophancy.

To those talking about revisionist history, not trading the draft picks for the newest version of RoCo/Powell/Nance and picking the best players available at those spots was the right thing to do. Revisionist history is acting like Dame was forced into calling for a trade (TO ONE DESTINATION) because the team had all these terrific options on draft night that they just declined to screw Dame over. Revisionist history is acting like Dame's loyalty was a one-way street when he had it as good as any NBA player in terms of say with the moves of the franchise ... which, BTW, played a significant part in putting the team where it is now.

It's just amazing that some people read the OP and the takeaway was "Look at this guy crapping on Dame." Some of you guys need a vacation or at least a French vanilla latte. Seriously.

 

[PCmor7]

But they're going to field a title contending team around Jerami Grant?

Remind me why we even acquired Jerami.

 

[riverman]

Remind me why we even acquired Jerami.

Dame recruited him from team USA

 

[BIG Q]

I appreciate the thread and think its a good discussion point. We have so many discussions here about what the Blazers SHOULD do it becomes a bit of an echo chamber with those I agree on. But your right its worth discussing what the Blazers actually WILL do as these are two very different things. I tend to agree they won't commit to a long rebuild even if strategically that is the most likely path to a title.

I don't like the idea at all as this team needs to aggressively rebuild like OKC did. First they traded every veteran they could for picks though, and took on veterans for picks, and then re-flipped some of those vets for more picks. Instead we seem to just hold onto vets until their trade value slowly deteriorates. OKC was only a horrible team for 2 seasons. Not committing 100% to an aggressive rebuild actually makes the rebuilding longer, slower, and many more years of heavy losses.

Ant & Thybulle for Randle does make a lot of sense for the Blazers if trying to win now. I'm not sure how good it is for NY but perhaps it would work. They already have a lot of guards, but they really needed some more offensive punch and they have a great D to cover Simons deficiencies. I don't think #14 is enough to move from 7>3 but yes I can see the theory of packaging the picks to move up. Both moves seem to continue this two timelines strategy that I question the Blazers will ever move away from.

Now I totally understand some people frustration with this path after Cronin never attempted to win at all with Dame. I always believed that door was closed when we did the Clippers trade, but I understand others held out hope Cronin would be able to give it a try. Instead it was a very unfulfilling conclusion to Dame's career in Portland.

Having the 3rd worst record for the epically bad 2024 draft and then getting back to purgatory for the epically strong 2025 draft does seem like the type of dumb move this Blazers leadership team would pursue.

Exactly, giving up on the rebuild after selecting two lotto players from a bad draft and going into purgatory before a loaded draft is very typical of Portland. Can’t get out of their own damn way. I doubt Jody and crew give a damn about wins or butts in seats with the new tv deal coming. That is where the money is. No sense in stepping over quarters to pick up nickels. Portland needs to be Sucktacular next season so the worst pick they get is 5. Hope for number one. Then do any all in bs. If Scoot and Sharpe are weak of mind and can’t handle a season of losing where they are actually developing then maybe they are not the players Portland needs to be banking on. Or maybe you give them a year on the Remix so they can dominate, not damage their fragile minds and win the G-League. Give them Camara, Murray, Rupert and whatever they get out of the draft this season to do some winning in the G-League while the NBA team is retooling for another lotto pick in 2025 and then start trading those vets off.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Remind me why we even acquired Jerami.

It was a play to keep Dame. It was a significant add. If we could have added an all star level player to put next to to Dame, Grant, and Ayton we could have tried to make a run... Maybe we could have talked Hart into staying.

So Dame, Hart, Brown/Bridges/OG, Grant, Ayton.

 

[Boomchakalaka2]

But they're going to field a title contending team around Jerami Grant?

Of course not. The “rebuild” became a concept as soon as Scoot Henderson became a possibility with the #3 pick. Jody must have whispered in Cronin’s ear that it was time to move on from paying Dame over $50 million a year for four more years. Cronin, to his credit, was able to get some value back from the Dame trade and didn’t cave to the Miami weak proposals. But I don’t believe that Cronin was thinking we could build a title around Grant or Ayton per se. I do believe he sees Ayton as a piece of the rebuild puzzle, but Grant, Thybulle, Williams and Brogdan are all parts to trade off over the next two years.

But they're going to field a title contending team around Jerami Grant?

 

[Boomchakalaka2]

Exactly, giving up on the rebuild after selecting two lotto players from a bad draft and going into purgatory before a loaded draft is very typical of Portland. Can’t get out of their own damn way. I doubt Jody and crew give a damn about wins or butts in seats with the new tv deal coming. That is where the money is. No sense in stepping over quarters to pick up nickels. Portland needs to be Sucktacular next season so the worst pick they get is 5. Hope for number one. Then do any all in bs. If Scoot and Sharpe are weak of mind and can’t handle a season of losing where they are actually developing then maybe they are not the players Portland needs to be banking on. Or maybe you give them a year on the Remix so they can dominate, not damage their fragile minds and win the G-League. Give them Camara, Murray, Rupert and whatever they get out of the draft this season to do some winning in the G-League while the NBA team is retooling for another lotto pick in 2025 and then start trading those vets off.

Partially what I’m saying. I’ve only suggested we trade Ant and Thybuile to acquire a PF (Julius Randle) to strengthen our frontcourt for a year or two allowing Scoot and Sharpe to be in a better environment. Tanking is not working for us! Should have had the third pick this year, after all. Shoot, next year we can trade a Grant, Randle, Williams, Brogdan and get into the 2025 lottery - better odds than tanking. Tanking is disgusting and the league should penalize teams that create the fake injuries, etc. all for the sake of tanking. It’s a black eye to the NBA and not fair to the paying fans.

 

[PCmor7]

It was a play to keep Dame. It was a significant add. If we could have added an all star level player to put next to to Dame, Grant, and Ayton we could have tried to make a run... Maybe we could have talked Hart into staying.

So Dame, Hart, Brown/Bridges/OG, Grant, Ayton.

Exactly. Goes to my point to Bones, who is among those saying we did Dame dirty while simultaneously saying we did what Dame wanted.

And ... if, as Bones is saying, Grant's not a good enough player to make a team decent without a some really good players around him, then how the heck can anyone keep blasting the organization for things like not trading all our draft picks for players that so far as we know weren't available and might not have made any more of a dent in the quality of our team than Grant made. (EDIT: Neither Bridges no OG have ever been all-stars and there's nothing solid to suggest the Blazers were getting Jaylen Brown ... they couldn't even get Siakam).

You can have both. You can love or admire Dame without making stuff up to carry water for him in a thread that's talking about the best way to move forward and didn't mention Lillard at all.

 

[HoopsFanAZ]

According to Spotrac:

Grant — 3 years + p-opt / 29.8, 32, 34.2, 36.4 (in millions)
Simons — 2 years / 25.9, 27.7
Brogdon — 1 year / 22.5
Time Lord — 2 years / 12.4, 13.3
Thybulle — 1 + p-opt / 11.0, 11.6
Ayton — 2 years / 34, 35.6

Providing the numbers of the vets for purpose of discussion and trade timelines. Brogdon is trade him by February if he’s to be traded (to a playoff team who could use him, for instance and IMHO).

If the team is “healthy” and as constructed + 2 lottery picks … and jettison any needed, lesser contracts for roster spots … then they win too many games to get a dude in the ‘25 draft.

 

[Phatguysrule]

Exactly. Goes to my point to Bones, who is among those saying we did Dame dirty while simultaneously saying we did what Dame wanted.

And ... if, as Bones is saying, Grant's not a good enough player to make a team decent without a some really good players around him, then how the heck can anyone keep blasting the organization for things like not trading all our draft picks for players that so far as we know weren't available and might not have made any more of a dent in the quality of our team than Grant made. (EDIT: Neither Bridges no OG have ever been all-stars and there's nothing solid to suggest the Blazers were getting Jaylen Brown ... they couldn't even get Siakam).

You can have both. You can love or admire Dame without making stuff up to carry water for him in a thread that's talking about the best way to move forward and didn't mention Lillard at all.

I think the Blazers with Olshey definitely did Dame dirty while trying to do what he wanted. I think Cronin 100% tried to build a strong team around Dame. But I just don't think the opportunity presented itself in time.

 

[PCmor7]

I think the Blazers with Olshey definitely did Dame dirty while trying to do what he wanted. I think Cronin 100% tried to build a strong team around Dame. But I just don't think the opportunity presented itself in time.

Essentially giving a kid the all-chocolate diet he wanted rather than making the more prudent moves, yes. I don't know if I'd say Olshey did Dame dirty. I definitely think he did Dame and the Blazers both a disservice, though.

 

[BonesJones]

Remind me why we even acquired Jerami.

To build around Dame. Now that Dames gone, we're rebuilding and shouldn't value pieces like Julius Randle over draft capital.

 

[BonesJones]

I think the Blazers with Olshey definitely did Dame dirty while trying to do what he wanted. I think Cronin 100% tried to build a strong team around Dame. But I just don't think the opportunity presented itself in time.

If Cronin tried his best, that's scary.

 

[PCmor7]

If Cronin tried his best, that's scary.

Please, then, Torey. Tell us who he could have gotten but didn't get for that pick.

I'm disappointed Cronin didn't trade for Prime Wilt, Dr. J and Tim Duncan using the third pick as the lure.

 

[PCmor7]

To build around Dame. Now that Dames gone, we're rebuilding and shouldn't value pieces like Julius Randle over draft capital.

Yeah, that's only a halfway intellectually honest answer. As others already have pointed out, Dame wanted Grant.

We kept doing Dame dirty by bringing in his guys. Oh, the horror.

 

[Boomchakalaka2]

According to Spotrac:

Grant — 3 years + p-opt / 29.8, 32, 34.2, 36.4 (in millions)
Simons — 2 years / 25.9, 27.7
Brogdon — 1 year / 22.5
Time Lord — 2 years / 12.4, 13.3
Thybulle — 1 + p-opt / 11.0, 11.6
Ayton — 2 years / 34, 35.6

Providing the numbers of the vets for purpose of discussion and trade timelines. Brogdon is trade him by February if he’s to be traded (to a playoff team who could use him, for instance and IMHO).

If the team is “healthy” and as constructed + 2 lottery picks … and jettison any needed, lesser contracts for roster spots … then they win too many games to get a dude in the ‘25 draft.

Win games! Win lots of games! What better environment for Scoot and Sharp to mature in!

 

[SharpesTriumph]

I think the Blazers with Olshey definitely did Dame dirty while trying to do what he wanted. I think Cronin 100% tried to build a strong team around Dame. But I just don't think the opportunity presented itself in time.

What is an example of when Olshey "did Dame dirty"? Now I question the DameCJ duo was the best way to build a winner, and Olshey had plenty of bad roster moves. But just making bad moves doesn't mean he "did Dame dirty" it might just mean he's not a good GM.

Now I do think catering to Dame's desires such as him wanting to play with CJ, having his cousin on the team, not trading Nurk for Ayton, etc. was a disservice to the Blazers and harmed Dame's ability to be part of a winner. But I hold Dame and Olshey equally responsible for that dynamic.

 

[blazerkor]

Win games! Win lots of games! What better environment for Scoot and Sharp to mature in!

If you're convinced that Scoot and Shaedon are for sure the first and second best players on a championship team then this should be your approach. If all we need are role players around these two then your approach makes sense.

I really like Shaedon and Scoot but I'm not sure what they end up being yet, so for me I think it's still time to try and give our team as many chances at landing a perennial MVP contending superstar as we can. So my primary concern for this upcoming season would be acquiring as much young talent as possible and give only that young talent the playing time to try and figure out what roles they might fill in the future.

That most likely would result in a pretty low win percentage, not very many wins at all but I think playing the whole season and playing hard every night without having to sit any of your best players for the last month or two of the season might be a better environment to build a winning culture than bringing in guys just below all star level so we can win less than every other game and still probably not get any playoff experience, while hurting our chances of having the most options in the 2025 draft.

 

[Boomchakalaka2]

To build around Dame. Now that Dames gone, we're rebuilding and shouldn't value pieces like Julius Randle over draft capital.

Draft capital can come from Julius Randle, from Grant, Brogdan and from Williams, provided he plays and proves he’s healthy. We want draft picks in 2025 and 2026! Be patient and the rebuild will happen - it is happening. We don’t need to “tank” anymore! This draft should produce a wing. Not another guard. We need Risacher and should package 7 & 14 and whatever else makes it tick and get to #2 or #3.

If Risacher goes #1, then we pick Sarr. And if Sarr is gone, take Conigan. What we do with Sarr or Conigan? We can cross that bridge if it comes. But my plan would be to trade up for Risacher and get a win for this year’s draft.

and don’t forget that we have to trade Ant with Thybulle and go after a PF vet with a good and tradable contract in a year. Randle is my choice.

 

[Phatguysrule]

If Cronin tried his best, that's scary.

What else was available?

 

[Phatguysrule]

What is an example of when Olshey "did Dame dirty"? Now I question the DameCJ duo was the best way to build a winner, and Olshey had plenty of bad roster moves. But just making bad moves doesn't mean he "did Dame dirty" it might just mean he's not a good GM.

Now I do think catering to Dame's desires such as him wanting to play with CJ, having his cousin on the team, not trading Nurk for Ayton, etc. was a disservice to the Blazers and harmed Dame's ability to be part of a winner. But I hold Dame and Olshey equally responsible for that dynamic.

Losing Aldridge without a return. 2016 free agency. Refusing to trade CJ for a better fit.

Really... Do I need to keep going on? Olshey was an absolute catastrophe.

I'm not interested in arguing semantics. Olshey fucked Dame.

 

[Boomchakalaka2]

If you're convinced that Scoot and Shaedon are for sure the first and second best players on a championship team then this should be your approach. If all we need are role players around these two then your approach makes sense.

I really like Shaedon and Scoot but I'm not sure what they end up being yet, so for me I think it's still time to try and give our team as many chances at landing a perennial MVP contending superstar as we can. So my primary concern for this upcoming season would be acquiring as much young talent as possible and give only that young talent the playing time to try and figure out what roles they might fill in the future.

That most likely would result in a pretty low win percentage, not very many wins at all but I think playing the whole season and playing hard every night without having to sit any of your best players for the last month or two of the season might be a better environment to build a winning culture than bringing in guys just below all star level so we can win less than every other game and still probably not get any playoff experience, while hurting our chances of having the most options in the 2025 draft.

We need Scoot and Sharpe to convince us that they are part of a championship starting five. And I truly believe we must package our picks and trade up, targeting a wing. This player can understudy with Grant and then we can trade Grant a year from now or at the trade deadline if we are not in playoff contention. Next year and the year after we target PF and then a Center. Ayton is now 25 and under contract, so Center should be the final piece of the puzzle. Making the playoffs will be a good experience for Scoot, Sharp and Risacher (if we get him of course) and this time next year we start assessing players, starting with Scoot and Sharpe. Are they our guards of the future? If not, keep building until we get it right.

 

[Boomchakalaka2]

Question:

When do we know if Scoot is a bust or if he’s our PG of the future?

 

[Phatguysrule]

Question:

When do we know if Scoot is a bust or if he’s our PG of the future?

If he's not a legit starter with an advantage most nights within 3-4 years or so...