On to Brassard...

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The team was successful later year because they had 4 good centers. This year who knows how Miller/Lombardi Will turn out but last year Step/BR/Brass has over and under 50 points. The team cannot afford to have a nonproductive 3rd line center. We'll see...

Also, I think posters are overreacting. Players will put up better numbers, CK, Nash, Brass, will be better. More offense will be produced by Boyle. My only concern is size... The team got smaller this offseason.
 
Again, to me anyone can say I don't want the Rangers to be the team to sign Brassard to this deal. I honestly don't think many can say it was a bad contract and he wouldn't have gotten at least this deal next summer, he clearly would have IMO. This is where the NHL is now. Just reality. You might want to say let some other team sign Brass to that deal, but I just don't think anyone can say this deal we way over-paid and no shot Brass gets that next summer, he would have and then some IMO.

Is what it is now with NHL contracts.

If he scores 50 or more points and 17 or more goals, both VERY doable, this contract will be fine IMO.
 
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very valid points but its not all about numbers, you can just see how brassards line cycles the puck better and gets more scoring chances, he finds open guy and has good chemistry with zucc, stepan has better numbers? well no kidding, he plays more minutes, plays more PP minutes too. He also plays with our best players (supposidly).

Brassard had a tough start to his career, very injury prone and was terrible, i'm not going to lie, but hes only 27, some players take longer time to develope or needs to be in a system to succeed. Brassard is by far great in this system, he is also clutcher in the post season as we just saw.

now i dont love the deal 4mil would be better but what you guys are not factoring in, is that there are no Centers available out there, and that being said brassard knows that and used it as leverage, i rather have brassard at 5 mil then nobody there and we suck even more at center.

something about stepan this past season turned me off, like this dude has let me down especially this post season, he doesn't generate any offense by himself, he doesn't take the body, hes not a leader, hes just there, getting 50 points a season with the most PP minutes for a center and more ice time for a center, plays with nash. Of course hes going to get 50 points, its pretty easy when you have so many opportunites to succeed. now im not giving up hes young but i dont see that he has good vision or good feel for the game, hopefully AV works with him and he levels up soon.
 
So your claim is despite the fact that Stepan is 3 years younger, despite the fact that Stepan has clearly better numbers, despite the fact that Stepan's numbers are trendng up while at best Brassard's numbers are trending neutral, despite the fact that Stepan is at .67 points per game in his career while Brass is at .558 points per game in his career, Brassard is better than Stepan. Okay, fair enough. Like I said it is 100% fair for anyone to have that opinion, that is how opinions work, but just understand that there are no facts to back up that opinion.

And if you feel from today forward Brass will be better than Step, I say certainly possible. Anything can happen. Maybe he will be, but we need to see it happen before we can use that as a fact why we think Brass is better than Step. Maybe next year at this time Step is coming off a down season, and Brass a great one, and the conversation will have changed. But today that is not the case.

I also think it is kind of funny how we quote Stepan playing with Nash, yet at the same time most in here knock Nash, which is it? And in the playoffs this past season Stepan had more points than Brassard. And in the regular season, Stepan only played a little over 2 mpg more than Brass, and the two actually had the same amount of PP points, which means no point edge for Stepan on the PP.

With that said, I like the Brass signing. To me people are missing the market if they don't think Brass gets 5 mill as a UFA next summer (barring a bad season). He clearly would have. BUT even if you want to be ultra-conservative Brass was getting somewhere between 4.5 and 5.5 per IMO. So worst case we overpaid by 500 K. Best case we got a 500 K value. Now I happen to think he would have gotten closer to 5.5 as a UFA next summer assuming he went to the highest bidder, but either way this wasn't some way over the top deal by Sather where he wasted an extra 1 mill or more in cap space on Brass.

If Brass steps up his game a little, which I think he will, this deal will be very solid for us and him. A C who scores 50 + points and 17 or more goals is worth a 5 mill cap hit in the NHL today, and I think Brass will be there this season making this a very good deal for us.

I like Kreider/Stepan/MSL AND Nash/Brass/Zucc as our top two lines. That would be a nightmare for other teams to deal with IMO.
 
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chuckd3534 said:
So your claim is despite the fact that Stepan is 3 years younger, despite the fact that Stepan has clearly better numbers, despite the fact that Stepan's numbers are trendng up while at best Brassard's numbers are trending neutral, despite the fact that Stepan is at .67 points per game in his career while Brass is at .558 points per game in his career, Brassard is better than Stepan. Okay, fair enough. Like I said it is 100% fair for anyone to have that opinion, that is how opinions work, but just understand that there are no facts to back up that opinion.

And if you feel from today forward Brass will be better than Step, I say certainly possible. Anything can happen. Maybe he will be, but we need to see it happen before we can use that as a fact why we think Brass is better than Step. Maybe next year at this time Step is coming off a down season, and Brass a great one, and the conversation will have changed. But today that is not the case.

I also think it is kind of funny how we quote Stepan playing with Nash, yet at the same time most in here knock Nash, which is it? And in the playoffs this past season Stepan had more points than Brassard. And in the regular season, Stepan only played a little over 2 mpg more than Brass, and the two actually had the same amount of PP points, which means no point edge for Stepan on the PP.

With that said, I like the Brass signing. To me people are missing the market if they don't think Brass gets 5 mill as a UFA next summer (barring a bad season). He clearly would have. BUT even if you want to be ultra-conservative Brass was getting somewhere between 4.5 and 5.5 per IMO. So worst case we overpaid by 500 K. Best case we got a 500 K value. Now I happen to think he would have gotten closer to 5.5 as a UFA next summer assuming he went to the highest bidder, but either way this wasn't some way over the top deal by Sather where he wasted an extra 1 mill or more in cap space on Brass.

If Brass steps up his game a little, which I think he will, this deal will be very solid for us and him. A C who scores 50 + points and 17 or more goals is worth a 5 mill cap hit in the NHL today, and I think Brass will be there this season making this a very good deal for us.

I like Kreider/Stepan/MSL AND Nash/Brass/Zucc as our top two lines. That would be a nightmare for other teams to deal with IMO.
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Chuck, don't know if AV has considered it but I would like to see those lines also. Step and kreids and brass and zucc are good duos. I think msl with step until duclair gets up here and nash with brass and zucc would be good line combos. I also think brass adds to his numbers this year with addl time he'll gets both 2nd line center and PP time now that richards not here for the full 2 minutes(ugh) anymore. Mr. sleeps, agree step needs to introduce himself this offseason to some weights or have someone smack him in the face as his 2 biggest hits of the season were the ones right after prust broke his jaw which was kind of amazing when you think about it.
 
Interesting ...Jeff Carter 5.27 per year...I think Carter is a lot better than Brassard..
he should be slotted behind Carter by 1 million IMO. Open market or not.
This is why the owners are assholes when they shut the league down saying its the players being greedy. Look at the market, Carter has proven over his career to be a goal scorer why is Brass getting anything near Carter....uggh
 
How about our old friend Anisimov. 20+gls and basically the same 45pt player that Brassard is while playing in an inferior team, yet makes less than $3.5M cap hit. Brassard's deal is a disaster waiting to happen.

Just awful.
 
Yeah, fair point Al. You can find players both ways. Not sure it is fair to use Carter's deal which was signed under a different CBA which allowed very long deals and huge differences in salary from one year to the next, but even with that being said there are good deals and bad deals.

All I feel pretty confident in saying is under today's rules and today's CBA I have very little doubt Brass would get 5 mill per, if not more, and at the very least would get very close to 5 mill per even if you didn't agree he would get more. What is very fair to me is if someone says yeah he would get that as a UFA next summer, but let another team give it to him...not the Rangers. That is a very fair stance to have. I do not think it is very accurate or fair to act as if his deal is not a fair one based on the current landscape of the NHL, but again that is my opinion.

But if someone said pass on Brass at 4.5 to 5.5, which is what he is worth in today's NHL, I would be totally cool with that. Then we'd have to sign a big C next summer to replace Brass, which is cool.
 
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I agree mel. I think with those lines we'd be really tough to defend. The 3rd line, can 1 or 2 kids play well, and will Nash be Nash are the big questions for the team next season. We get good answers and we'll be real good.
 
Brassard allows you to use him either at the #2/3 going forward, so if needed they could deal Stepan and then sign a true top C in FA. If Brassard was simply an average #3 I might sign it was a bit of an overpayment. He has the ability to at least be a decent second C. If Lindberg and Miller(who I think is actually better suited to W)progress as hoped then you have your bottom six C's.
 
you can look at it which every way you want with the numbers, yes stepan has better numbers, but he plays with nash. i feel if the line was brassard zucc nash it would work better, we tried putting stepan with so many different players but nothing seems to click with this guy, he is not clutch, he doesn't play with a chip on his shoulder, it just seems he is meh when it comes to his numbers and it fine with that, i feel brassard wants it more has more to prove...... again this is just my peronal opinion from what i saw this post season (not counting regular season) because post season is where you can judge a player, (joe thorton).

We can bring down every centers number and what he makes and say this and that...... but a person gets paid on what value he brings to the team. Can we saw we get to the stanely cup without the brassard line? hell no, but if stepan wasn't on the team we still get there imo, idk seems that stepans points come in garbage time, i can remember a game against philly where the game was a blow out and stepan scores 2 goals when its already 4-1 . Just my observation,!
 
so just looking at random numbers, a lot of which don't mean anything but here i go ill share them anyway,

stepan, finals 2 assiasts, brassard, finals goal 2 assists,

stepan series by series, PHI 2g 2a, pit 2a, game 6 n 7 , mtl 3g 4a (best series)

brassard phi 2a, pitt 4g 1a, mtl 1g 1a.

pretty much as even as it gets in terms of numbers, brassard played better against PITT, tougher opponets and kings and stepan played better in MTL and PHI. It is what it is, i think as playoffs went on brassards role was more involved as he was playing so well.

Either way can't wait to start the season and what these guys can do in year 2!

btw at first i was against Pouliout leaving but after seeing that he only had 10 points, he is definitley replaceable, it just seemed he did better then that. IDK who is going to replace him but hopefully they do better then that.
 
Stepan needs to get into better shape this year, and Stempniak should come close to Pouliots production I'd think, maybe a few less goals but better defensively.
 
Here is the bottom line Sleeps, across the board just about every number is better for Stepan, like 95% of them. He scores more regular season. He scored more last post-season. His worst season in his 4 pro seasons is just about equal to Brassard's best season in his 6 seasons. He is just a better player. I am sorry but there really isn't much to debate here. Just about every single number favors Stepan, and he is 3 years younger also. That's it really.

Now with that said you are 100% entitled to like Brass better. You are 100% entitled to think Brass will be better going forward, no one can see the future so it could happen, but I am sorry I just don't see how anyone can spin that up to this point Brassard has been better than Stepan, just no way bro.

And yes...I 100% agree with you that I am looking forward to the season. About 10 more weeks and we drop the puck...:).
 
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Some of you really underrate Stepan in here. The guy is at .670 points per game in his career. He just turned 24. In his 4 full seasons in the NHL he has NEVER missed a game. NEVER scored less than 17 goals. NEVER had less than 45 points (his 44 points in 48 games during the lockout season would have put him WAY over 45 points in a full season). NEVER been worse than a + 8, and outside of his rookie season never been worse than a + 12.

Those are some really good numbers for a 24 year old. Sure we all want more, but have patience. I see 60 points this season, he had 57 this past season, and from there we'll see where he goes in his career. He is a very good player already at 24.
 
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Totally agree about Stepan Chuck and on a team perpetually struggling for offense the Rangers need a guy like Stepan. I think Glen overpaid but at least it was for a 27 year old Brassard with potential upside instead of a 37 year old Thornton with no upside.

I thought Stepan showed a lot of grit playing with a broken jaw last postseason. I don't expect him to become a physical presence though it would be nice but Stepan really needs to improve on faceoffs (45.2% wins on 1,500 attempts doesn't cut for a first liner). Brassard could easily surpass 50 points if he could hit an open net, missed way too many last year, also unacceptable.
 
Faceoffs will be interesting this season. Boyle took a ton of big ones with Moore. Then Richards. Now with Boyle and Richards gone Stepan and Brass need to improve on faceoffs. Moore cannot take every single FO.

Great point on the Brass signing panzer. Sather paid 5 mill per for a 27 year old about to really enter his prime C (which I don't believe was overpaying if you compare it to what Brass would get as a UFA next summer...and even if it was an overpay it was very slight as Brass would get 4.5 at a minimum as a UFA). If Sather didn't sign Brass you know we go out there and sign some big UFA C in his 30's for 8 mill or more per, and that is a much bigger risk than re-signing Brass for 5 mill per.
 
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