Zombie One simple question for Lillard and Aldridge

[The_Lillard_King]

LOL... what?

You want names only to shoot it down or laugh at. I'm laughing at your theory that you need alternatives. Tell you what, pay me 100's of thousands of dollars and I'll give you names. (Like any message board post is going to figure this shit out.) Until then we are all free to judge the moves the Blazers make without coming up with alternatives. Your alternatives theory is a joke to some of us.

 

[Shooter]

Do you really think Chandler Parsons is worth over $15 million per year?

Would you have paid Marcin Gortat $60 million over five years?

Gordon Hayward is getting paid $15.75 million per year with the Bobcats.

What do you think shooter?

I think Chandler Parsons is an amazing player, and would have been a great addition. I also think Gortat is a helluva lot better than Kaman. And Gordon Hayward is a clear upgrade over Blake. Would they have come to Portland? I don't know. Are they worth the money? I don't know that, either, but I know that three NBA teams thought they were. Sometimes you have to overspend to get good talent.

 

[Natebishop3]

OK let's play your game. What should Dallas do instead of Chandler? Don't just say overpaid, come up with alternatives

They traded for him....

Why do you keep bringing up other teams? We're talking about the Portland Trail Blazers and the resources that they had to acquire new talent this summer. You claimed that I have a reading comprehension problem, but it's like you're not following my point at all.

You walk into a store. You have a 5 dollar bill and the mythical 3 dollar bill. That's all you have. You don't have a credit card. You don't have any checks. You have exactly 8 dollars that you can spend.

You need some hamburger and some milk. You don't have enough money to buy the organic hamburger meat, so you have to settle for the regular stuff. Now you only have $3 left, but again, you don't have enough for the organic milk, so you have to buy the regular milk.

You needed hamburger meat and milk, and that's exactly what you got, but you didn't get the milk and meat you really wanted because... guess what... you didn't have enough money.

Then again, I guess you could just not buy any milk or meat and just figure out what you're going to make for dinner with what's in the pantry.

 

[HailBlazers]

People reacted to Lopez signing last year with a lot of pessimism. Maybe we should give Olshey a little benefit of the doubt?

Same story, different summer. Good teams aren't built overnight. Not in a small market cold weather city anyway.

 

[riverman]

This is the same shit people spew at their children over and over. YOU CAN BE PRESIDENT, you can be anything you want.........bullshit. What if I want to be an Olympic gymnast?

I can't and never could have.

Some things have limitations.

You could probably be a pretty good curler though which gymnasts probably would suck at so there's that

 

[Natebishop3]

I think Chandler Parsons is an amazing player, and would have been a great addition. I also think Gortat is a helluva lot better than Kaman. And Gordon Hayward is a clear upgrade over Blake. Would they have come to Portland? I don't know. Are they worth the money? I don't know that, either, but I know that three NBA teams thought they were. Sometimes you have to overspend to get good talent.

Okay, so now you have to make a trade that Houston will agree to because you don't have the cap space to offer him that contract outright. So now you have to match $15 million in salaries. Are you going to trade Batum? How about Wes? We don't have a lot of big contracts on the books right now. How exactly are you going to add those players?

 

[Shooter]

Tell you what, pay me 100's of thousands of dollars and I'll give you names. (Like any message board post is going to figure this shit out.) Until then we are all free to judge the moves the Blazers make without coming up with alternatives.

Exactly right. None of us are Olshey--and none of us can stay on top of every player situation and contract, know who really wants to change teams, know all the agents and what they are saying about their clients, and keep our ear to the ground to catch all the scuttlebutt that is flying around the league at any given moment. That's what Olshey gets paid for. I recall that Bob Whitsitt made some amazing and very creative deals to bring very talented players to Portland. Not every deal worked out, certainly, but he found ways to make things happen. That's what I was hoping would happen this summer.

 

[julius]

Same story, different summer. Good teams aren't built overnight. Not in a small market cold weather city anyway.

I'm not sure the weather plays such a huge role, since A: they play indoors and B: they travel most of the season and C: most of the league has similar crappy weather during the season.

 

[riverman]

Same story, different summer. Good teams aren't built overnight. Not in a small market cold weather city anyway.

If you think Portland is a cold weather city, you haven't been around much. Detroit, Boston, Chicago, Minneapolis, Denver, New York, Philly.....now those are some cold weather cities.

 

[Shooter]

Okay, so now you have to make a trade that Houston will agree to because you don't have the cap space to offer him that contract outright. So now you have to match $15 million in salaries. Are you going to trade Batum? How about Wes? We don't have a lot of big contracts on the books right now. How exactly are you going to add those players?

See my post above.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

They traded for him....

Why do you keep bringing up other teams? We're talking about the Portland Trail Blazers and the resources that they had to acquire new talent this summer. You claimed that I have a reading comprehension problem, but it's like you're not following my point at all.

You walk into a store. You have a 5 dollar bill and the mythical 3 dollar bill. That's all you have. You don't have a credit card. You don't have any checks. You have exactly 8 dollars that you can spend.

You need some hamburger and some milk. You don't have enough money to buy the organic hamburger meat, so you have to settle for the regular stuff. Now you only have $3 left, but again, you don't have enough for the organic milk, so you have to buy the regular milk.

You needed hamburger meat and milk, and that's exactly what you got, but you didn't get the milk and meat you really wanted because... guess what... you didn't have enough money.

Then again, I guess you could just not buy any milk or meat and just figure out what you're going to make for dinner with what's in the pantry.

LOL . . . check your posts, you brought up other teams and the contracts asking if they were worth it. My response to that is if you don't think they are worth it give alternative plans . . . I know it silly to say that, but that is how some people think around here.

There you go with your bait . . give me your alternatives so i can shoot it down. You want Hibbet . . . what? Hamburger and milk and blah blah blah

Rockets didn't have enough money for Bosh. Golden State didn't have enough money for Iggy. NO didn't have enough money for Evans. They can't get those players they don't have enough money

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Exactly right. None of us are Olshey--and none of us can stay on top of every player situation and contract, know who really wants to change teams, know all the agents and what they are saying about their clients, and keep our ear to the ground to catch all the scuttlebutt that is flying around the league at any given moment. That's what Olshey gets paid for. I recall that Bob Whitsitt made some amazing and very creative deals to bring very talented players to Portland. Not every deal worked out, certainly, but he found ways to make things happen. That's what I was hoping would happen this summer.

Whitsitt had access to PA's golden checkbook. I think that checkbook is long gone. It seems very clear that going into the luxury tax is not an option anymore.

 

[MickZagger]

I think Chandler Parsons is an amazing player, and would have been a great addition. I also think Gortat is a helluva lot better than Kaman. And Gordon Hayward is a clear upgrade over Blake. Would they have come to Portland? I don't know. Are they worth the money? I don't know that, either, but I know that three NBA teams thought they were. Sometimes you have to overspend to get good talent.

WE DON'T HAVE THE MONEY AVAILABLE TO OFFER THOSE PLAYERS!!!!!!

 

[riverman]

Success for Stotts era Blazers has been a collective, not individual achievement. Rolo made improvements because of the team and system. Kaman seems to understand the importance of that by everything he's said. Rolo was the first to chime in on what a good addition he'll be for the team. Now with Rolo and Kaman at the 5, we have the beginings of the new cast of "Vikings"

 

[Natebishop3]

Exactly right. None of us are Olshey--and none of us can stay on top of every player situation and contract, know who really wants to change teams, know all the agents and what they are saying about their clients, and keep our ear to the ground to catch all the scuttlebutt that is flying around the league at any given moment. That's what Olshey gets paid for. I recall that Bob Whitsitt made some amazing and very creative deals to bring very talented players to Portland. Not every deal worked out, certainly, but he found ways to make things happen. That's what I was hoping would happen this summer.

No. You guys can't play the "we don't know what's going on because we're average sports fans" argument here. We know exactly what we could offer to these free agents, and we know exactly what they ended up signing for. Obviously there's still some guys who haven't signed yet, but we have a very specific set of numbers that we could offer. This isn't a mystery.

If you're arguing that we should have done nothing and left the roster as it was, so be it. That's your opinion and you're entitled to it, but don't criticize the signings that we did make without offering any kind of alternative. The MLE is not cap space. It can't be used to acquire people in trade. It's a one-time thing that you can use to sign free agents when you're over the cap. We didn't trade anyone for these two players, and we didn't sacrifice much financially because they're both cheap deals.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

WE DON'T HAVE THE MONEY AVAILABLE TO OFFER THOSE PLAYERS!!!!!!

CLEVELAND DOESN"T HAVE MONEY AVAILABLE TO OFFER LEBRON A MAX DEAL!!!!!!!

 

[magnifier661]

No. You guys can't play the "we don't know what's going on because we're average sports fans" argument here. We know exactly what we could offer to these free agents, and we know exactly what they ended up signing for. Obviously there's still some guys who haven't signed yet, but we have a very specific set of numbers that we could offer. This isn't a mystery.

If you're arguing that we should have done nothing and left the roster as it was, so be it. That's your opinion and you're entitled to it, but don't criticize the signings that we did make without offering any kind of alternative. The MLE is not cap space. It can't be used to acquire people in trade. It's a one-time thing that you can use to sign free agents when you're over the cap. We didn't trade anyone for these two players, and we didn't sacrifice much financially because they're both cheap deals.

Very well said

 

[magnifier661]

CLEVELAND DOESN"T HAVE MONEY AVAILABLE TO OFFER LEBRON A MAX DEAL!!!!!!!

Actually they have exactly what you need to free up space. We don't without trading LMA or Lillard... It's really quite simple

 

[Natebishop3]

LOL . . . check your posts, you brought up other teams and the contracts asking if they were worth it. My response to that is if you don't think they are worth it give alternative plans . . . I know it silly to say that, but that is how some people think around here.

There you go with your bait . . give me your alternatives so i can shoot it down. You want Hibbet . . . what? Hamburger and milk and blah blah blah

Rockets didn't have enough money for Bosh. Golden State didn't have enough money for Iggy. NO didn't have enough money for Evans. They can't get those players they don't have enough money

Iggy, Bosh, Evans WERE NOT SIGNED WITH THE MLE.

They were signed with CAP SPACE.

So you're saying that we should have dumped salary to offer a bigger contract to these mystery free agents that we should have signed? Is that what you're saying? Great. Who do we dump?

 

[SlyPokerDog]

CLEVELAND DOESN"T HAVE MONEY AVAILABLE TO OFFER LEBRON A MAX DEAL!!!!!!!

Having a ton of high draft pick players on rookie contracts makes it easy for them to clear cap room.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

No. You guys can't play the "we don't know what's going on because we're average sports fans" argument here. We know exactly what we could offer to these free agents, and we know exactly what they ended up signing for. Obviously there's still some guys who haven't signed yet, but we have a very specific set of numbers that we could offer. This isn't a mystery.

If you're arguing that we should have done nothing and left the roster as it was, so be it. That's your opinion and you're entitled to it, but don't criticize the signings that we did make without offering any kind of alternative. The MLE is not cap space. It can't be used to acquire people in trade. It's a one-time thing that you can use to sign free agents when you're over the cap. We didn't trade anyone for these two players, and we didn't sacrifice much financially because they're both cheap deals.

LOL . .. so he is entitle to his opinion as long as he doesn't criticize the signings

 

[julius]

I think Chandler Parsons is an amazing player, and would have been a great addition.

I don't think it's very easy for a team over the cap to make an offer for a RFA (at about 15 million per) like it is for a team under the cap to do the same.

And even if the Blazers DID want him, they'd either have to do a sign and trade (and hope Houston wants what Portland could give up, and considering the size of the contract he got from Dallas, it'd have to be Nic + either Lopez or Wesley, and that's not worth it), or trade 15 or so in salary and not take anything back and then offer a contract to him hoping Houston doesn't just re-sign him AND then be out those two players.

Yep, smart GMing right there.

I also think Gortat is a helluva lot better than Kaman. And Gordon Hayward is a clear upgrade over Blake. Would they have come to Portland? I don't know.

You may not know, but anyone with a elementary understanding of the salary cap knows none of those guys would come here, ESPECIALLY considering the salaries they did receive.

Are they worth the money? I don't know that, either, but I know that three NBA teams thought they were.

Well, Washington had his Bird rights, so it's not comparable. Charlotte (and potentially Utah) were either under the cap (both) or retained his Bird rights (Utah) so that's not comparable either..

Sometimes you have to overspend to get good talent.

And sometimes you don't have the ability to overspend to get good talent.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

Having a ton of high draft pick players on rookie contracts makes it easy for them to clear cap room.

What . . you can clear cap space. never heard of this before.

 

[julius]

Exactly right. None of us are Olshey--and none of us can stay on top of every player situation and contract, know who really wants to change teams, know all the agents and what they are saying about their clients, and keep our ear to the ground to catch all the scuttlebutt that is flying around the league at any given moment. That's what Olshey gets paid for. I recall that Bob Whitsitt made some amazing and very creative deals to bring very talented players to Portland. Not every deal worked out, certainly, but he found ways to make things happen. That's what I was hoping would happen this summer.

different CBA allowed for different kinds of trades.

 

[MickZagger]

CLEVELAND DOESN"T HAVE MONEY AVAILABLE TO OFFER LEBRON A MAX DEAL!!!!!!!

WE CLEAR CAP ROOM AND WE CAN GAURANTEE AN ALL STAR PLAYER COMING HERE BECAUSE ALDRIDGE AND LILLARD WERE TOLD DURING SMALL TALK WITH BUDDIES THAT SOME TOP FLIGHT FREE AGENTS WANT TO PLAY WITH THEM?????

GET.

REAL.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

Iggy, Bosh, Evans WERE NOT SIGNED WITH THE MLE.

They were signed with CAP SPACE.

So you're saying that we should have dumped salary to offer a bigger contract to these mystery free agents that we should have signed? Is that what you're saying? Great. Who do we dump?

i don't know Rolo, Nic . .. depends on who is available. Point is I don't think teams stop analysis at all we have is the MLE.

As I've said thousand times, I'm not going to pretend to know what moves can be done in the NBA, but I feel comfortable enough making judgements on moves made without giving alternatives. You want alternatives, that fine. I don't judge others opinions because they won't give alternatives

 

[SlyPokerDog]

WE DON'T HAVE THE MONEY AVAILABLE TO OFFER THOSE PLAYERS!!!!!!

CLEVELAND DOESN"T HAVE MONEY AVAILABLE TO OFFER LEBRON A MAX DEAL!!!!!!!

WE CLEAR CAP ROOM AND WE CAN GAURANTEE AN ALL STAR PLAYER COMING HERE BECAUSE ALDRIDGE AND LILLARD WERE TOLD DURING SMALL TALK WITH BUDDIES THAT SOME TOP FLIGHT FREE AGENTS WANT TO PLAY WITH THEM?????

GET.

REAL.

 

[Natebishop3]

i don't know Rolo, Nic . .. depends on who is available. Point is I don't think teams stop analysis at all we have is the MLE.

As I've said thousand times, I'm not going to pretend to know what moves can be done in the NBA, but I feel comfortable enough making judgements on moves made without giving alternatives. You want alternatives, that fine. I don't judge others opinions because they won't give alternatives

Those moves can still be made while using the MLE and BAE to fill holes. Whether we trade for someone like Trevor Ariza does not change the fact that we needed a backup point guard and a veteran big man. We used the MLE to sign the best available players at that rate.

 

[Natebishop3]

[video=youtube;WJ1dJEDr6Bk]

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

different CBA allowed for different kinds of trades.

You missed the main part of the argument. It was that he has no idea how Trader Bob did that back then and he doesn't know how Olshey would be able to do it now, just that if we wish for it we can sign everyone for FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE