One Truehoop Writer's Opinion of PHI's #2 pick

[RR7]

Fans nixing trades is a lot different than KP nixing trades. He signed Miller, who wasn't thought to be a good fit next to Roy. I imagine if he had a chance for a top PG, he would do it, and they'd figure it out.

Also, I have heard the same complaint about Lebron, Wade, Kobe, etc.

 

[Idog1976]

Not sure what happened to that part of my post. I said tons of trades get nixed because of "won't fit next to Roy" You don't hear that about Lebron, or Wade or Bosh etc. etc. Constantly I hear so and so won't work with Roy. Well why the fuck not? That tells me there is something wrong with Roy or his game.

I remember when the rest of the team was kicking ass with a healthy LMA and Oden dominating. All I heard was Roy complaining about going away from Kobe and Lebron as though he is even CLOSE to Lebron/Kobe.

I'm not denying Roy's talent, but comparing Roy to Walton and Drexler is pre-mature. We haven't even made it out of the 1st round. Walton won us a ring.

Let me clarify with a hypothetical trade. Lets' say you trade Roy for his comparable PER and pick up Josh Smith or Kobe. Neither one of those guys NEEDS certain players to be around him to be effective. Roy MUST have a dribbler and a three point shooter to be effective. Hence our constant desire for a player like that. Oh and Roy plays very VERY little defense. It's atrocious given the rest of his game really. His offense is right up there with almost anyone in the league not named Kobe, Lebron or Wade.

 

[Draco]

That just won't happen, though. I'm not saying it shouldn't happen, but I cannot see an NBA franchise going that outside the box to put a player who seems like a prototypical small forward at point guard. Even proven great small forwards who could have pulled it off (like Scottie Pippen or Grant Hill) were never really experimented with that way except for brief periods.

I think if Portland could do this deal and wanted to take advantage of it, the most likely thing they'd do is gamble on Cousins/Favours. Or, perhaps, trade the #2 away for something else.

I'd be quite interested in a Batum/Turner/Roy perimeter, with defensive assignments being a night-by-night match-up issue, but I just don't think it would ever happen.

Is it really that outside the box to have Roy be the starting PG?

I think a Roy/Turner/Batum starting backcourt most similar historic NBA comparision would be Harper/Jordan/Pippen, which was the best team of all time.

 

[BGrantFan]

Not sure what happened to that part of my post. I said tons of trades get nixed because of "won't fit next to Roy" You don't hear that about Lebron, or Wade or Bosh etc. etc. Constantly I hear so and so won't work with Roy. Well why the fuck not? That tells me there is something wrong with Roy or his game.

I remember when the rest of the team was kicking ass with a healthy LMA and Oden dominating. All I heard was Roy complaining about going away from Kobe and Lebron as though he is even CLOSE to Lebron/Kobe.

I'm not denying Roy's talent, but comparing Roy to Walton and Drexler is pre-mature. We haven't even made it out of the 1st round. Walton won us a ring.

Clyde never won any titles, and I must have missed when the team was dominating with a healthy LA and Oden. Also, which trades have been nixed because of Roy?

 

[Idog1976]

Clyde was within sniffing distance twice and got punked by the greatest PG of all time a third time.

Trades get nixed by FANS not management. As in "WAAAAH that wouldn't work, he wouldn't work with ROYY waaaaah".

Last fall we had a stretch of a few games where Oden was dominant, including one where he and LMA and both put up a double double and dominated. The next day Roy whined about how they were going away from Kobe/Lebron/Wade, not "how can I make the team better now that our post is incredible."

Oden was the "problem" in that he was crowding the lane...and dominating it. Roy was right, but went about it the wrong way. I'm just saying I think a top flight PG who can distribute might be better to facilitate the post.

I'm not SERIOUSLY proposing trading Roy unless it was for Paul. I'm trying to point out we need more top shelf talent. I really don't care whether they "fit with Roy" we need someone to put us over the top and Roy can adjust. Until Roy is on one of the NBA All Defensive teams or averages a 30+ Per for 82 games we shouldn't worry to much about whether someone "fits next to Roy".

We do need a three point shooting PG, but I think that's true for virtually every team in the league except perhaps Boston/Chicago.

 

[RR7]

So Roy isn't worth it, or might not be at times, because of hypothetical trades proposed by fans in forums who think so and so might not fit with him?

 

[Idog1976]

Is it really that outside the box to have Roy be the starting PG?

I think a Roy/Turner/Batum starting backcourt most similar historic NBA comparision would be Harper/Jordan/Pippen, which was the best team of all time.

I think that is worth trying. Quick ignorance question, does Turner have good handles and range out to 3 I assume?

 

[Idog1976]

So Roy isn't worth it, or might not be at times, because of hypothetical trades proposed by fans in forums who think so and so might not fit with him?

Well it's not worth posting a trade idea on this forum as long as everyone is looking for some ideal PG who is Roy's soulmate. It just get's old seeing trade ideas shot down for that specific reason. It's not even really a good one. Now saying, no way in hell NBA PG's can get away with no 3pt range and poor defense. That's legit. It's not enough to say "wouldn't fit next to Roy". To be honest though I've wondered how it would be to trade Roy for a different more traditional Superstar at a position of need. More of a thought experiment then anything else.

 

[BGrantFan]

Clyde was within sniffing distance twice and got punked by the greatest PG of all time a third time.

Trades get nixed by FANS not management. As in "WAAAAH that wouldn't work, he wouldn't work with ROYY waaaaah".

Last fall we had a stretch of a few games where Oden was dominant, including one where he and LMA and both put up a double double and dominated. The next day Roy whined about how they were going away from Kobe/Lebron/Wade, not "how can I make the team better now that our post is incredible."

Oden was the "problem" in that he was crowding the lane...and dominating it. Roy was right, but went about it the wrong way. I'm just saying I think a top flight PG who can distribute might be better to facilitate the post.

I'm not SERIOUSLY proposing trading Roy unless it was for Paul. I'm trying to point out we need more top shelf talent. I really don't care whether they "fit with Roy" we need someone to put us over the top and Roy can adjust. Until Roy is on one of the NBA All Defensive teams or averages a 30+ Per for 82 games we shouldn't worry to much about whether someone "fits next to Roy".

We do need a three point shooting PG, but I think that's true for virtually every team in the league except perhaps Boston/Chicago.

So, your worries that Roy "is more trouble than he is worth" has been formed by pretend GMs on the internet nixing pretend trades by other pretend GMs? Seems to me that you're forming a negative opinion of Roy based on nothing more than idle speculation.

 

[Idog1976]

So, your worries that Roy "is more trouble than he is worth" has been formed by pretend GMs on the internet giving nixing pretend trades by other pretend GMs? Seems to me that you're forming a negative opinion of Roy based on nothing more than idle speculation.

You know I've been reading your posts for awhile now and all you do is attack and criticize. I'm talking about bullshit armchair GM stuff. Unless you are Pritchards forum Handle your opinion is worth as much as mine which is to say not much. I'm basing my opinion of people's ridiculous ideas of shooting down trades based on that.

Roy is great, now lets see him play some defense. We might win a ring if he commits to that. Like I said I'm musing, you know chewing the fat, marking time during the slowest part of the year. You know after Roy fails to get us out of the first round.

 

[RR7]

Well it's not worth posting a trade idea on this forum as long as everyone is looking for some ideal PG who is Roy's soulmate. It just get's old seeing trade ideas shot down for that specific reason. It's not even really a good one. Now saying, no way in hell NBA PG's can get away with no 3pt range and poor defense. That's legit. It's not enough to say "wouldn't fit next to Roy". To be honest though I've wondered how it would be to trade Roy for a different more traditional Superstar at a position of need. More of a thought experiment then anything else.

Do you think there are Magic fans who wish to not have Dwight, because every roster move on the internet is made with him in mind, and how said player would fit alongside Dwight? Mainly, when others give their opinions, they're looking at what they see is the best way to help us win. You win with stars, and players that fit withthose stars, generally. So people look for what they feel is the best options along those lines. I don't think it does any good to be upset at Brandon because he slightly hinders internet chatter.

 

[BGrantFan]

You know I've been reading your posts for awhile now and all you do is attack and criticize.

Bullshit. I've challenged a poster today who said Pritchard promised a "cornerstone" for Raef's contract. That poster has yet to provide a link to his alleged quotes by Pritchard. Then, I asked you to explain why Roy is more trouble than he's worth. Apparently, you've formed this opinion due to responses to pretend trades. I don't consider this an "attack".

I'm talking about bullshit armchair GM stuff. Unless you are Pritchards forum Handle your opinion is worth as much as mine which is to say not much. I'm basing my opinion of people's ridiculous ideas of shooting down trades based on that.

OK, but your opinion was that Roy is more trouble than he is worth. I simply wanted an explanation for that opinion.

Roy is great, now lets see him play some defense. We might win a ring if he commits to that. Like I said I'm musing, you know chewing the fat, marking time during the slowest part of the year.

Me too. I don't understand why you're upset that I asked you for more information.

You know after Roy fails to get us out of the first round.

Ah, there it is. The actual genesis for your opinion on Roy. I'd have liked to see a healthy Roy against Phoenix, but if you want to blame him entirely for losing to Phoenix, go for it.

 

[BGrantFan]

I don't think it does any good to be upset at Brandon because he slightly hinders internet chatter.

Repped.

 

[LittleAlex]

Bullshit. I've challenged a poster today who said Pritchard promised a "cornerstone" for Raef's contract. That poster has yet to provide a link to his alleged quotes by Pritchard. Then, I asked you to explain why Roy is more trouble than he's worth. Apparently, you've formed this opinion due to responses to pretend trades. I don't consider this an "attack".

Although I am not the poster in question I did go out and try and find the link for this.

The only thing I found was some stuff written like this but no actual quotes from KP about it.
Chad Ford said that the RLEC could be used to get a future cornerstone for the team.

The golden ticket comment came from Canzano.

KP did want to use RLEC (and he eventually did by signing Miller). But I couldn't find any indication he said he would bring in a super star.


He did say in one interview that he felt it would be more important to deal with trades and the draft this summer then to have cap space since everyone else will be going hard after free agents.

 

[BGrantFan]

Although I am not the poster in question I did go out and try and find the link for this.

The only thing I found was some stuff written like this but no actual quotes from KP about it.
Chad Ford said that the RLEC could be used to get a future cornerstone for the team.

The golden ticket comment came from Canzano.

KP did want to use RLEC (and he eventually did by signing Miller). But I couldn't find any indication he said he would bring in a super star.


He did say in one interview that he felt it would be more important to deal with trades and the draft this summer then to have cap space since everyone else will be going hard after free agents.

I was 90% sure Pritchard never uttered the words "Golden Ticket" or that he promised a "cornerstone". Thanks for making me 100% positive. Will that poster retract his made-up criticism of Pritchard?

 

[Idog1976]

Do you think there are Magic fans who wish to not have Dwight, because every roster move on the internet is made with him in mind, and how said player would fit alongside Dwight? Mainly, when others give their opinions, they're looking at what they see is the best way to help us win. You win with stars, and players that fit withthose stars, generally. So people look for what they feel is the best options along those lines. I don't think it does any good to be upset at Brandon because he slightly hinders internet chatter.

I guess I should have requested to trade the forum members who use the "won't fit next to Roy" excuse to nix a trade idea.

My criticisms of Roy are mostly around his attitude when Oden was playing well that it was taking away from him, his health and his terrible awful defense compared to what we all know he is capable of (Joe Johnson in the 4th at Atlanta last year for instance or blocking Melo).

Mostly I was simply wondering what it would be like to have some other Superstar that is more of an everyone fits kind of guy. Not sure Howard hinders any fits around him except for a couple of PF bangers. Likewise everyone fits with Kobe, Wade and Lebron. I can't imagine anyone not fitting with those guys to be honest. But when Roy plays you MUST have a good perimeter defender or two, a ball handler to bring it up and tons of three point threats.

Really who gives a shit what this team needs is health. I've actually met Roy in person and one thing I can see is he seems to be a legitimately cool guy in person. I like him in that regard, I have serious concerns about his health and defense. That is all.

I got out on a rhetorical limb and you called me on it. Not hard to defend the best player on the team...on a forum that is.

 

[Idog1976]

Bullshit. I've challenged a poster today who said Pritchard promised a "cornerstone" for Raef's contract. That poster has yet to provide a link to his alleged quotes by Pritchard. Then, I asked you to explain why Roy is more trouble than he's worth. Apparently, you've formed this opinion due to responses to pretend trades. I don't consider this an "attack".



OK, but your opinion was that Roy is more trouble than he is worth. I simply wanted an explanation for that opinion.



Me too. I don't understand why you're upset that I asked you for more information.



Ah, there it is. The actual genesis for your opinion on Roy. I'd have liked to see a healthy Roy against Phoenix, but if you want to blame him entirely for losing to Phoenix, go for it.

Where I got the idea you were tearing folks down and not being man enough to meet them halfway was this thread: http://sportstwo.com/threads/161041-Presti-interviewed/page2?highlight=Presti+interviewed

There are other threads as well but this one was the one that made me think you specialize it nitpicking and being insulting...with a mod no less!

As far as your critiques about Roy well if folks can criticize Oden for not staying healthy Roy is fair game as well. Doesn't do much good to get us to the playoffs if you are injured. Really that is the medical and coaching staffs fault unless Roy downplayed his injury.

You are right that Roy is a great player. I will give you that. It seems to me, you don't simply want an explanation you want to criticize people as is shown by the thread I linked. You seem to not be interested in being reasonable, only in being right. Maybe you were having an off day. I've certainly had meltdowns on this thread.

No question Roy is the best player on the team and I was being a bit silly in my whole thought train. I felt the way in which you went about debating it to be a bit annoying. I thought RR7 made the same points without being pedantic.

 

[BGrantFan]

Where I got the idea you were tearing folks down and not being man enough to meet them halfway was this thread: http://sportstwo.com/threads/161041-Presti-interviewed/page2?highlight=Presti+interviewed

To be fair, I was using the exact same logic against Presti that I see many of those posters use against Pritchard. To also be fair, you posted that "only two or three posts" in the thread made sense, and that the rest were ridiculous. Isn't than an example of you attacking/criticizing posters?

/

There are other threads as well but this one was the one that made me think you specialize it nitpicking and being insulting...with a mod no less!

I guess I missed where being a mod made one's lame opinion more worthy than the replaceable riff-raff like you and me.

As far as your critiques about Roy well if folks can criticize Oden for not staying healthy Roy is fair game as well. Doesn't do much good to get us to the playoffs if you are injured. Really that is the medical and coaching staffs fault unless Roy downplayed his injury.

I haven't crticized Oden for being injured. Seems to me you're again taking the opinion of pretend GMs and affixing blame to Roy.

You are right that Roy is a great player. I will give you that. It seems to me, you don't simply want an explanation you want to criticize people as is shown by the thread I linked. You seem to not be interested in being reasonable, only in being right. Maybe you were having an off day. I've certainly had meltdowns on this thread.

How is asking you to explain how Roy is more trouble than he is worth unreasonable? If you want to go out on a limb, don't cry when people challenge the reasoning behind it.

No question Roy is the best player on the team and I was being a bit silly in my whole thought train. I felt the way in which you went about debating it to be a bit annoying. I thought RR7 made the same points without being pedantic.

Fair enough! Pedantry is a personal flaw of mine. I won't consider you calling me pedantic an attack or a crticism.

 

[Idog1976]

To be fair, I was using the exact same logic against Presti that I see many of those posters use against Pritchard. To also be fair, you posted that "only two or three posts" in the thread made sense, and that the rest were ridiculous. Isn't than an example of you attacking/criticizing posters?

/


I guess I missed where being a mod made one's lame opinion more worthy than the replaceable riff-raff like you and me.



I haven't crticized Oden for being injured. Seems to me you're again taking the opinion of pretend GMs and affixing blame to Roy.


How is asking you to explain how Roy is more trouble than he is worth unreasonable? If you want to go out on a limb, don't cry when people challenge the reasoning behind it.



Fair enough! Pedantry is a personal flaw of mine. I won't consider you calling me pedantic an attack or a crticism.

It was the way you went about it with Walton and Drexler. How about let's agree that Roy is great. You were right about the hipocrisy on my part. We can agree to disagree about the other thread. By the way Presti is the only GM I wouldn't be enraged if we replaced KP with. I like KP.

 

[BGrantFan]

It was the way you went about it with Walton and Drexler. How about let's agree that Roy is great. You were right about the hipocrisy on my part. We can agree to disagree about the other thread. By the way Presti is the only GM I wouldn't be enraged if we replaced KP with. I like KP.

I'm good. Thanks for helping me kill time on a very slow afternoon! You make some good points as well, but posting "This" when I agree with you isn't my idea of fun.

 

[Idog1976]

I'm good. Thanks for helping me kill time on a very slow afternoon! You make some good points as well, but posting "This" when I agree with you isn't my idea of fun.

Lol, right on.

 

[BrianFromWA]

Bumped.
Chad Ford's take on Turner's PG skillz

"Turner is a great pick for the Nets. His point guard skills are good enough that he could eventually push Harris back to the 2, his more natural position."

--Chad Ford

So, uh, most of us would agree that Devin Harris would start at PG for us, and Ford says Evan Turner would play PG over Harris b/c of his PG skills. Tell me again why a Turner/Roy/Batum backcourt wouldn't work? Especially if the CP3 deal doesn't happen, trading EC's for Brand and Turner isn't a bad fallback.

 

[barfo]

You make some good points as well, but posting "This" when I agree with you isn't my idea of fun.

This.

barfo

 

[Minstrel]

You make some good points as well, but posting "This" when I agree with you isn't my idea of fun.

You don't have to post "This." You can also go with "+1" or "What he/she said" or "QFT."

There's a lot of nuance you can bring to the agreeing game.

 

[mook]

You don't have to post "This." You can also go with "+1" or "What he/she said" or "QFT."

There's a lot of nuance you can bring to the agreeing game.

That.

 

[barfo]

That.

The other thing.

barfo

 

[Minstrel]

That.

What did I do to you that you should be so passive aggressive?

 

[BrianFromWA]

Bumped, b/c I didn't want to make another OT thread.

Right now Evan Turner isn't getting anything to drop, but he's playing backup PG for PHI and guarding LeBron as PHI is winning by one in the 2nd quarter.

 

[BGrantFan]

So ... did KP really ever promise a "cornerstone" player for Raef, or can we put that fallacy to bed?

 

[Natebishop3]

So ... did KP really ever promise a "cornerstone" player for Raef, or can we put that fallacy to bed?

This.