Opinions on rebuilding?

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<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GMJigga)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

We can only pray Memphis is suckered like you are. But I doubt it.</p>

</div></p>

Our leading scorer and best post defender, both being the future of this team for Gasol?</p>

If you thought our defense was bad now...</p>

Plus I doubt Gasol makes up for it on the offensive end.</p>

</p>

</div></p>

The future of the Nets is mediocrity or worse.</p>

Gasol gives them a legit chance to win the East.</p>

Your kind of thinking is why the Nets are always stuck in limbo.</p>

</p>
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Universe)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

Gasol is quite the baby anyways. Wouldn't we have to find a way to bring in metrosexual Navarro as well?</p>

</div></p>

Good idea.</p>

Add Marcus Williams and Navarro to that deal.</p>

</p>
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

The future of the Nets is mediocrity or worse.</p>

Gasol gives them a legit chance to win the East.</p>

Your kind of thinking is why the Nets are always stuck in limbo.</p>

</div></p>

It's a weird year when I can say that trading RJ for Gasol will lose us offense. I won't say that Sean is the key for us, but he is the biggest impact player on defense that we have. He just needs the time to work on his offensive spacing and fouling.</p>

Any other year (assuming that Sean is not a rookie) I'd be tempted to go for it, but Boki and Gasol or RJ and Sean? We're worse defensively, offensively, and you want to talk about a mediocre future? You're trading away the best young talent on the team for...boki nachbar? That guy won't even get resigned at this pace.</p>

Gasol's averaging 17/7. I'd rather give starter minutes to Sean. Based on how he's done so far, and given his first start of his career in Miami, he could look damn good at the end of the year.</p>

</p>
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GMJigga)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

The future of the Nets is mediocrity or worse.</p>

Gasol gives them a legit chance to win the East.</p>

Your kind of thinking is why the Nets are always stuck in limbo.</p>

</div></p>

It's a weird year when I can say that trading RJ for Gasol will lose us offense. I won't say that Sean is the key for us, but he is the biggest impact player on defense that we have. He just needs the time to work on his offensive spacing and fouling.</p>

Any other year (assuming that Sean is not a rookie) I'd be tempted to go for it, but Boki and Gasol or RJ and Sean? We're worse defensively, offensively, and you want to talk about a mediocre future? You're trading away the best young talent on the team for...boki nachbar? That guy won't even get resigned at this pace.</p>

Gasol's averaging 17/7. I'd rather give starter minutes to Sean. Based on how he's done so far, and given his first start of his career in Miami, he could look damn good at the end of the year.</p>

</p>

</div></p>

It has nothing to do with the relative quality of the players (although Gasol is the best player in that deal by a mile).</p>

It has to do with building a team correctly around the best player - Jason Kidd.</p>

Thorn has done a horrible, horrible job of that, and years of Kidd's prime have gone by the wayside.</p>

And I'm not using hindsight here. It's been years of frustrated screaming to no effect.</p>

</p>
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

It has nothing to do with the relative quality of the players (although Gasol is the best player in that deal by a mile).</p>

It has to do with building a team correctly around the best player - Jason Kidd.</p>

Thorn has done a horrible, horrible job of that, and years of Kidd's prime have gone by the wayside.</p>

And I'm not using hindsight here. It's been years of frustrated screaming to no effect.</p>

</div></p>

By building around Kidd, I would presume you mean a fast-break game that starts off defensive stops?</p>

And you wan't to get rid of RJ and Sean? Defensive players who run the break for Gasol?</p>

Again I just don't see it. I'll concede that the years of rent-a-vets haven't been getting the job done, but we're talking about young talent at necessary positions that fit Kidd's game.</p>

</p>
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GMJigga)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

It has nothing to do with the relative quality of the players (although Gasol is the best player in that deal by a mile).</p>

It has to do with building a team correctly around the best player - Jason Kidd.</p>

Thorn has done a horrible, horrible job of that, and years of Kidd's prime have gone by the wayside.</p>

And I'm not using hindsight here. It's been years of frustrated screaming to no effect.</p>

</div></p>

By building around Kidd, I would presume you mean a fast-break game that starts off defensive stops?</p>

And you wan't to get rid of RJ and Sean? Defensive players who run the break for Gasol?</p>

Again I just don't see it. I'll concede that the years of rent-a-vets haven't been getting the job done, but we're talking about young talent at necessary positions that fit Kidd's game.</p>

</div></p>

Look, Vince Carter isn't getting traded. I know that. I'm being realistic here.</p>

There is no way to transform the current team into what you describe. It just isn't possible. They just do not have the pieces to play that kind of defense.</p>

I am of the belief that this is really the last year that Kidd can be considered a real championship level centerpiece. I'm not even sure he is one now, but I think it would be worth the risk to find out since the future is not so rosy one way or the other.</p>

Looking at things from that view, the best way to approach things is to play decent defense - which the Nets can do - and get a real, legitimate low post scorer who can complement Carter and let Kidd run the show like he's done in international ball.</p>

That means Kidd rarely (let's say almost never) shoots the ball.</p>

I agree it's not the ideal plan, but it's urgent and desperate. IMO, that's what's needed right now. A hail mary. A half-court heave. A prayer.</p>

That's the situation you put yourself in when you squander away years by hedging and being timid and hoping things will improve without really doing anything to improve things.</p>

</p>
 
Well I'll certainly agree that its a hail-mary type of move, but I don't think its worth the risk of jeapordizing the future of this franchise, especially since they're players who can already contribute now.</p>

I guess you think the team can instantly turn on the team defense they've been missing all season (and last), or that Frank will turn into a coach that can get this done. I'd like to think so, but I'm not that optimistic. I think thats why we need Sean; we need a single guy to have a significant impact because we can't count on the team to get the job done. I don't see Gasol as being this defensive beast that's going to fix rotation issues.</p>

We'd also need him to come in and score +25 points a night, again I'm less than optimistic.</p>

I'll give you this though: his midrange and rebounding ability would help us out a lot. Currently the two bigs who are supposed to be getting that done are getting daily DNP-CD. Plus we don't have to take up two positions to play Gasol.</p>

But based on the cost/benefit analysis, it just isn't worth it. Not by a long shot. There are pieces here, we just need to get these guys playing in a way that is more cohesive (Frank rant).</p>
 
Ghoti, i normally agree with many points you bring out; however, I'm thinking about the team that will move into Brooklyn in three or four years. By that time, Kidd and Carter will most likely be past their respective primes. Also, i dont think tweaking this current team will do much. Talent is not the problem, it is consistency and lack of effort by some of the key guys.</p>
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Black Republican)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

Where's Sam Bowie?</p>

</div></p>

Didn't he die in the Alamo after inventing that knife?!?</p>

</p>
 
RJ and Magloire for Pau and Stoudamire. do we have to give up Sean Williams? Throw them krstic instead.</p>
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GMJigga)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

But based on the cost/benefit analysis, it just isn't worth it. Not by a long shot. There are pieces here, we just need to get these guys playing in a way that is more cohesive (Frank rant).</p>

</div></p>

They do that every spring, and it leads to nothing.</p>

This is exactly how Thorn thinks, and it's why the Nets never won anything.</p>

</p>

</p>
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jizzy)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

RJ and Magloire for Pau and Stoudamire. do we have to give up Sean Williams? Throw them krstic instead.</p>

</div></p>

If I were Memphis, I'd start the negotiation with Sean Williams - the Nets' only decent bargining chip - and work from there.</p>

RJ's stock is up, but his value has already been established (and it's a LOT lower than Gasol's). Twenty games isn't going to change it that much.</p>

You should be glad the Nets finally have a young player another team might want. If they had one at any time during the last four years, maybe the Nets could have landed the impact player they needed.</p>

</p>
 
Memphis has Mike Miller and Rudy Gay. They have no need for RJ</p>
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

Rebuilding sucks.</div></p>

The Nets will be rebuilding soon enough. It is far, far better to get a jump start on it.</p>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

A better idea is to do what they SHOULD HAVE DONE YEARS AGO and push their chips into the center of the table.</div></p>

That shipped has sailed. The Nets would have to make two huge moves to get out of the East and they don't have the chips to do that.</p>

</p>
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

Memphis has Mike Miller and Rudy Gay. They have no need for RJ</p>

</div></p>

They had no need for Mike Conley, but they drafted him anyway.</p>

I demand they hand over Pau Gasol at once!</p>

</p>
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

Rebuilding sucks.</div></p>

The Nets will be rebuilding soon enough. It is far, far better to get a jump start on it.</p>

</div></p>

That ship has sailed.</p>

If they start rebuilding now it wouldn't be any kind of jump start.</p>

They should have had two high picks by now.</p>

They held onto these players long past their peak vaulue, so it's no risk at all to get what they can and cross their fingers they get lucky this year.</p>

</p>
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

They held onto these players long past their peak vaulue</p>

</div></p>

Have all of the Brooklyn luxury boxes been sold yet?</p>

</p>
 
There are rumours that it is likely that Memphis will trade Gasol by the trade deadline, because he doesn't fit in with their new-look team. If we assume that Memphis primarily wants expiring contracts, you start with Magloire and Nachbar. Then you have to toss in Collins to make the salaries work, and then it is just a matter of what young players or draft picks to include. The problem with tossing in Sean Williams, though, is that the nets would be woefully thin in the front court and would have to rely even more on Malik Allen. The only real hope is that Memphis wants salary cap releif more than young players, because the Nets don't have very much there. I can't imagine that Memphis wants Marcus. A bunch of crap like this for Gasol sounds ridiculous, but you never know what memphis' primary interest is. They'd save a heck of money.</p>
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jizzy)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

RJ and Magloire for Pau and Stoudamire. do we have to give up Sean Williams? Throw them krstic instead.</p>

</div></p>

If I were Memphis, I'd start the negotiation with Sean Williams - the Nets' only decent bargining chip - and work from there.</p>

RJ's stock is up, but his value has already been established (and it's a LOT lower than Gasol's). Twenty games isn't going to change it that much.</p>

You should be glad the Nets finally have a young player another team might want. If they had one at any time during the last four years, maybe the Nets could have landed the impact player they needed.</p>

</p>

</div></p>

</p>

You nuts? Both LA and Indy wanted Marcus Williams last year. Krstic was wanted as well. If Nachbar gets his ass together, he'll have some value as well. Sean has the most value tho.</p>
 
Yeah Nachbar has pretty poor value on this Nets team, and we didn't have to give anything up to get him!</p>

</p>
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jizzy)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ghoti)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

Rebuilding sucks.</p>

The Celtics were trying to trade Paul Pierce but couldn't get anything back that they liked, so they reversed course and went for broke.</p>

The truth is that the Nets don't have much to build around for the future, and if they trade Kidd they will need several high draft picks and a lot of luck to become a title contender again.</p>

A better idea is to do what they SHOULD HAVE DONE YEARS AGO and push their chips into the center of the table.</p>

Maybe Memphis would listen to an RJ/Sean Williams offer for Gasol since they are the only players on the Nets with high stock right now. Who knows?</p>

I doubt it matters because Rod Thorn has been a complete pussy and never made the moves that would have put the Nets over the top. It's probably too late now, but it's still worth one last REAL try.</p>

</div></p>

i dont understand you. One day, you want to keep the team intact, the next day you want to blow it up. taking lessons from Cpaw?</p>

</div></p>

Find one post where I said I wanted to blow up the team.</p>

I have been saying that Thorn is a wuss with no sense of urgency since before you were posting your daily "Good Night My Friends" threads.</p>

</p>

</p>

</div></p>

</p>
 
The problem with trading for Gasol is this question.</p>

Is a trio of Kidd, Carter, and Gasol good enough to beat Boston and compete for an NBA title?</p>

If not is it worth giving up RJ and a young, impact player that's not even close to realizing his full potental?</p>
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Real)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

The problem with trading for Gasol is this question.</p>

Is a trio of Kidd, Carter, and Gasol good enough to beat Boston and compete for an NBA title?</p>

If not is it worth giving up RJ and a young, impact player that's not even close to realizing his full potental?</p>

</div></p>

The Nets get to keep Gasol, right?</p>

</p>
 
Gasol doesn't play defense. He's not athletic to get out and run. You're basically moving this team away from it's best player and that's Kidd. At this point, you'd be doing the Brooklyn Nets a favor by moving Kidd and VC now. You pick up 4-5 pieces that will develop over the next 2 seasons, you get a chance to see who you want to bring to Brooklyn, sign them long term and bring them over. In the next 2 years, you may also be able to move RJ for an even younger piece. So you're looking at Sean, Krstic, Marcus, with maybe 3 quality starters. You save money, open up tax space to accept other team's expiring garbage for who knows, cash and picks....then boom Brooklyn.....of course there's no guarantee that this will happen, but you won't be burdened by your cap. As we've seen thus far, the current bunch is .500 and prospects are a 3rd place finish in the division...the squad will be a year older....and with Kidd talking extension, Kidd can see the writing on the wall, this maybe his last full court stint as the team leader.</p>
 
There's a few questions you need to answer before deciding whether or not to rebuild.</p>

Do you have something to rebuild around? The Nets kinda do but not really. A couple a pieces like the Williams sisters and RJ will keep you competitive enough to avoid a first or second pick (you could get lucky though).</p>

How long of a process are you willing to endure? Toronto had a five-year plan, what year of the process are you in? Year one? Just looking around the arena I don't think fans would take well to rebuilding, although maybe there really is only 10,000 Nets fans in Jersey but they're real fans that will stick it out with the team.</p>

Do you have the GM to do it? We saw what happened with Babcock in Toronto and the difference BC has made.</p>
 
Shookem knows. His Raptors are still in rebuilding mode. Oh wait, nevermind...</p>
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Shookem)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

There's a few questions you need to answer before deciding whether or not to rebuild.</p>

Do you have something to rebuild around? The Nets kinda do but not really. A couple a pieces like the Williams sisters and RJ will keep you competitive enough to avoid a first or second pick (you could get lucky though).</p>

How long of a process are you willing to endure? Toronto had a five-year plan, what year of the process are you in? Year one? Just looking around the arena I don't think fans would take well to rebuilding, although maybe there really is only 10,000 Nets fans in Jersey but they're real fans that will stick it out with the team.</p>

Do you have the GM to do it? We saw what happened with Babcock in Toronto and the difference BC has made.</p>

</div></p>

I agree that Nets have no real piece to build around. Marcus and Sean wont centerpiece good, and RJ is only a bordline allstar. My hope is that if we ever do trade Kidd and Carter, it would be those pieces or at least a start.</p>

The current team is an injury-prone, secound round and out team with a barely decent future. The process would be at least a 2-4 year thing, at least to build a young decent team that will sell in Brooklyn. Im confident that we at least have a capable gm, I mean when talking about Rod Thorn, do you view him in the same league as Babcock and King? He isnt Colangelo good imo, but he isnt Babcock bad.</p>

</p>
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

Memphis has Mike Miller and Rudy Gay. They have no need for RJ</p>

</div></p>

They are turning Rudy Gay into a power forward aren't they?</p>
 
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Universe)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (cpawfan)</div><div class='quotemain'></p>

Memphis has Mike Miller and Rudy Gay. They have no need for RJ</p>

</div></p>

They are turning Rudy Gay into a power forward aren't they?</p>

</div></p>

I think you mean Hakim Warrick.....</p>

or not...</p>

idk...</p>

</p>
 
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