Politics Orange Man Bad! (A safe space for people who don't like Trump)

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riverman said:
safe spaces are for cucks....I read that somewhere. don't mean to offend any cucks but....
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Yeah, but sometimes you don't want to get into arguments that devolve into bullshit, and these threads, in theory, are supposed to foster that.
 
EL PRESIDENTE said:
Yeah, but sometimes you don't want to get into arguments that devolve into bullshit, and these threads, in theory, are supposed to foster that.
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When the topics are pure bullshit....you have no choice but to hose off and get out the patchouli oil
 
CupWizier said:
I'm ugly and mean as hell. Just pointing out the hypocrisy is all as I'm sure you will post a warning to the offender.
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River and I have met and have some respect for each other and I believe we are both mature enough to tell it like it is to each other without carrying on and on and are able to move on as evidenced.

For the record, I DID address the post. The post called forum members snowflakes and I refuted it. If this offends you in any way, I apologize, but there were no violations i'm aware of in my posts.

You sure do seem to have a quick and keen interest in my posts with other people though. I will not delve into that any further....

Would you care to respond to my DM I sent a day or two ago extending an invitation? It was and is genuine.
 
riverman said:
When the topics are pure bullshit....you have no choice but to hose off and get out the patchouli oil
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Differing opinions on universal health care is bullshit? On socialism is bullshit?

I tried to have that convo before with you and you wouldn't have any of it. So I guess i'm confused River? What topics are worthy of discussion without having to cleanse?

I'm with you on racism if that's what you mean. But I find very few things in life not worthy of a discussion prior to closing my ears and yelling im right and you are wrong. Racism is absolutely one of those, but you have cut me off on more than that basically degrading my opinions on health care as immoral.

So I ask. What is worthy of debate and what is an absolute where you know your way is the only way?
 
Orion Bailey said:
Differing opinions on universal health care is bullshit? On socialism is bullshit?
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I don't know what you're referencing but my joke post to el prez was concerning specifically, a post about New Zealand being the poster boy for racism and slavery or something to that effect..Sly cleaned up that whole section of a thread after I flagged that post..I believe I've flagged some pretty awful posts but none were yours.that I remember at least...my beliefs on health care and social services are intact and work very well if that's the argument you want to make...capitalism has failed the middle class and created a well off and impoverished population of have's and have nots....conservative greed has contributed to this greatly and I'm a believer in social democracy...it works for everyone...not just those with ways and means. I've lived in a country with great national healthcare paid for by sales tax....I collect my social security check every month and use the VA services the govt provides me for my service....I'll call the fire department if there's a fire and pay tax for them to have a job....that's socialism...and yes, I value it's importance to a healthy population and lower crime rate. I don't hate Trump because he's a republican, I hate Trump because he's a liar, cheater, racist and divisionary windbag spewing useless bullshit.....alot of Trump threads are full of bullshit that shouldn't be a conversation 3 and a half years into his presidency....Congress impeached him so being disgusted with his performance is my absolute right in a free country...I'll say again....there is no reasonable doubt as to Trump's role in our current situation and we're long past the point where that should even be a conversation....bring on the vote....don't waste another nickel...nobody is going to change between now and Nov
 
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riverman said:
I don't know what you're referencing but my joke post to el prez was concerning specifically, a post about New Zealand being the poster boy for racism and slavery or something to that effect..Sly cleaned up that whole section of a thread after I flagged that post..I believe I've flagged some pretty awful posts but none were yours.that I remember at least...my beliefs on health care and social services are intact and work very well if that's the argument you want to make...capitalism has failed the middle class and created a well off and impoverished population of have's and have nots....conservative greed has contributed to this greatly and I'm a believer in social democracy...it works for everyone...not just those with ways and means. I've lived in a country with great national healthcare paid for by sales tax....I collect my social security check every month and use the VA services the govt provides me for my service....I'll call the fire department if there's a fire and pay tax for them to have a job....that's socialism...and yes, I value it's importance to a healthy population and lower crime rate. I don't hate Trump because he's a republican, I hate Trump because he's a liar, cheater, racist and divisionary windbag spewing useless bullshit.....alot of Trump threads are full of bullshit that shouldn't be a conversation 3 and a half years into his presidency....Congress impeached him so being disgusted with his performance is my absolute right in a free country...I'll say again....there is no reasonable doubt as to Trump's role in our current situation and we're long past the point where that should even be a conversation....bring on the vote....don't waste another nickel...nobody is going to change between now and Nov
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So, now we can get down to the meat of it.

Socialism is vague. Yes our current republic also has shades of socialism, but it is nothing like true socialism. I know your smart enough to know this.

Now lets look back on past socialistic experiments....

https://www.heritage.org/progressivism/commentary/three-nations-tried-socialism-and-rejected-it

This was post WW2 when some countries have already tried a form of and it didn't work either.

Now check this out....

https://www.hoover.org/research/socialism-has-failed-period

A couple stories where scholars traveled around socialistic countries...

I'm not going to continue to post link after link, but it seems its fairly universal knowledge that if you go full socialism, the money runs out eventually. Breadlines and poverty run rampant. And this isn't taking into account a potential fradulent government controlling everything, I'm just simply discussing supply and demand.

Yes any society should develop some sort of means to support its elderly. Yes, we should figure out how to compensate our vets who gave our life for our freedoms. But having a government with these types of programs doesn't fully constitute us being a socialist government.



Now lets take a look at our social security system you mentioned.

https://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/ssb/v70n3/v70n3p111.html

It needs adjustments to be made to meet 75% of the needs by 2035. And only then will it be sustainable only if every family only has two children. So basically we need to become like China and limit the number of children families can have in order for social security to be sustainable longer than 2035.

You mentioned health and safety needs such as a fire department. You do know most fire departments consist of mostly volunteers right? The funding for them is not near what it should be considering the risks they take?

Listen. All societies will need to pay into a form of security. Its the amount of security that is up for debate here and how to sustain financially a large amount of security.

My ideals come form I should provide security for myself and help do the same for those who can not.
I'm not for paying into a system that wants to help people who can help themselves, but prefer to reep off the hard work of others. Which is in essence a full on socialist government. Everyone gets equal pay to contribute to the manufacturing of goods to be spread out for all, so everything is universally available for all, and the government controls it all.

Sorry. I will never buy into full on socialism, because history has proven its failure. But im happy to discuss and debate what portions of life should be aided by a government and im for finding the means to do so. But as of now, I think we have too many misguided programs already and there is no way I want to pay more into a system that cant handle efficiently the programs it has currently. And you know what? I'm not even blaming the government for failed programs. Things must be tried. But i'm not for trying things that have already been tried and failed. Socialism is just that.

I wont go into the last portion of tour post that had to do with Trump because in this big picture of what type of government should we have moving forward, has little to do with him, or the hatred you and others have for him. I get the frustration, anger. I feel deceived as a long time republican. But im still going to use common sense and blame him for him and not blame him for everything wrong with today's world because it was built long before he came along.
 
Orion Bailey said:
So, now we can get down to the meat of it.

Socialism is vague. Yes our current republic also has shades of socialism, but it is nothing like true socialism. I know your smart enough to know this.

Now lets look back on past socialistic experiments....

https://www.heritage.org/progressivism/commentary/three-nations-tried-socialism-and-rejected-it

This was post WW2 when some countries have already tried a form of and it didn't work either.

Now check this out....

https://www.hoover.org/research/socialism-has-failed-period

A couple stories where scholars traveled around socialistic countries...

I'm not going to continue to post link after link, but it seems its fairly universal knowledge that if you go full socialism, the money runs out eventually. Breadlines and poverty run rampant. And this isn't taking into account a potential fradulent government controlling everything, I'm just simply discussing supply and demand.

Yes any society should develop some sort of means to support its elderly. Yes, we should figure out how to compensate our vets who gave our life for our freedoms. But having a government with these types of programs doesn't fully constitute us being a socialist government.



Now lets take a look at our social security system you mentioned.

https://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/ssb/v70n3/v70n3p111.html

It needs adjustments to be made to meet 75% of the needs by 2035. And only then will it be sustainable only if every family only has two children. So basically we need to become like China and limit the number of children families can have in order for social security to be sustainable longer than 2035.

You mentioned health and safety needs such as a fire department. You do know most fire departments consist of mostly volunteers right? The funding for them is not near what it should be considering the risks they take?

Listen. All societies will need to pay into a form of security. Its the amount of security that is up for debate here and how to sustain financially a large amount of security.

My ideals come form I should provide security for myself and help do the same for those who can not.
I'm not for paying into a system that wants to help people who can help themselves, but prefer to reep off the hard work of others. Which is in essence a full on socialist government. Everyone gets equal pay to contribute to the manufacturing of goods to be spread out for all, so everything is universally available for all, and the government controls it all.

Sorry. I will never buy into full on socialism, because history has proven its failure. But im happy to discuss and debate what portions of life should be aided by a government and im for finding the means to do so. But as of now, I think we have too many misguided programs already and there is no way I want to pay more into a system that cant handle efficiently the programs it has currently. And you know what? I'm not even blaming the government for failed programs. Things must be tried. But i'm not for trying things that have already been tried and failed. Socialism is just that.

I wont go into the last portion of tour post that had to do with Trump because in this big picture of what type of government should we have moving forward, has little to do with him, or the hatred you and others have for him. I get the frustration, anger. I feel deceived as a long time republican. But im still going to use common sense and blame him for him and not blame him for everything wrong with today's world because it was built long before he came along.
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I actually want to expand on what I bolded, because I think there is a larger concern to socialism as well. The degradation of skills. If everyone is paid equal and there is no incentive to do better by gaining more, then creativity, production, entertainment stimuli will all likely take a nose dive as we become mere robots for the man.
 
Orion Bailey said:
So, now we can get down to the meat of it.

Socialism is vague. Yes our current republic also has shades of socialism, but it is nothing like true socialism. I know your smart enough to know this.

Now lets look back on past socialistic experiments....

https://www.heritage.org/progressivism/commentary/three-nations-tried-socialism-and-rejected-it

This was post WW2 when some countries have already tried a form of and it didn't work either.

Now check this out....

https://www.hoover.org/research/socialism-has-failed-period

A couple stories where scholars traveled around socialistic countries...

I'm not going to continue to post link after link, but it seems its fairly universal knowledge that if you go full socialism, the money runs out eventually. Breadlines and poverty run rampant. And this isn't taking into account a potential fradulent government controlling everything, I'm just simply discussing supply and demand.

Yes any society should develop some sort of means to support its elderly. Yes, we should figure out how to compensate our vets who gave our life for our freedoms. But having a government with these types of programs doesn't fully constitute us being a socialist government.



Now lets take a look at our social security system you mentioned.

https://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/ssb/v70n3/v70n3p111.html

It needs adjustments to be made to meet 75% of the needs by 2035. And only then will it be sustainable only if every family only has two children. So basically we need to become like China and limit the number of children families can have in order for social security to be sustainable longer than 2035.

You mentioned health and safety needs such as a fire department. You do know most fire departments consist of mostly volunteers right? The funding for them is not near what it should be considering the risks they take?

Listen. All societies will need to pay into a form of security. Its the amount of security that is up for debate here and how to sustain financially a large amount of security.

My ideals come form I should provide security for myself and help do the same for those who can not.
I'm not for paying into a system that wants to help people who can help themselves, but prefer to reep off the hard work of others. Which is in essence a full on socialist government. Everyone gets equal pay to contribute to the manufacturing of goods to be spread out for all, so everything is universally available for all, and the government controls it all.

Sorry. I will never buy into full on socialism, because history has proven its failure. But im happy to discuss and debate what portions of life should be aided by a government and im for finding the means to do so. But as of now, I think we have too many misguided programs already and there is no way I want to pay more into a system that cant handle efficiently the programs it has currently. And you know what? I'm not even blaming the government for failed programs. Things must be tried. But i'm not for trying things that have already been tried and failed. Socialism is just that.

I wont go into the last portion of tour post that had to do with Trump because in this big picture of what type of government should we have moving forward, has little to do with him, or the hatred you and others have for him. I get the frustration, anger. I feel deceived as a long time republican. But im still going to use common sense and blame him for him and not blame him for everything wrong with today's world because it was built long before he came along.
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social democracy is not soviet republic socialism....you can be rich in a social democracy but you have to pay tax to the services that help the poor.....yeah...I've read Marx....see Taiwan's social democracy and understand it's not Chinese socialism by any stretch...you're smart enough to know this...democratic socialism is not communism or fascism or authoritarianism which many dictatorships morph into....let's not talk down to each other when the topic is very simple.....you use taxes to fund social services and you can still make a billion dollars in a social democracy...it's what we have now except the benefits to the poorest are lagging behind the perks of the wealthy......there's no reason to fear some 1950s cold war red scare because homeless people can be helped out and poor people can get access to health care or staple foods or affordable housing
 
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Orion Bailey said:
River and I have met and have some respect for each other and I believe we are both mature enough to tell it like it is to each other without carrying on and on and are able to move on as evidenced.

For the record, I DID address the post. The post called forum members snowflakes and I refuted it. If this offends you in any way, I apologize, but there were no violations i'm aware of in my posts.

You sure do seem to have a quick and keen interest in my posts with other people though. I will not delve into that any further....

Would you care to respond to my DM I sent a day or two ago extending an invitation? It was and is genuine.
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I never responded to you and have absolutely no interest in ever having a discussion with you and definitely will not be partaking in anything at your place. Also, get over the "stalker whining" you continue to try and claim.
 
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riverman said:
social democracy is not soviet republic socialism....you can be rich in a social democracy but you have to pay tax to the services that help the poor.....yeah...I've read Marx....see Taiwan's social democracy and understand it's not Chinese socialism by any stretch...you're smart enough to know this...democratic socialism is not communism or fascism or authoritarianism which many dictatorships morph into....let's not talk down to each other when the topic is very simple.....you use taxes to fund social services and you can still make a billion dollars in a social democracy...it's what we have now except the benefits to the poorest are lagging behind the perks of the wealthy......there's no reason to fear some 1950s cold war red scare because homless people can be helped out and poor people can get access to health care or staple foods or affordable housing
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No fair enough, but I haven't really heard a determination made with regards to the socialist movement happening now? Have you? All Ive really heard and read from those pushing it is universal everything. Where are the lines being drawn in this movement? are you saying it is a movement from a republic to a true democracy? (which would have its own set of concerns about nothing ever getting done if the vote percent needs to be high enough to satisfy the masses)

Is there something out there outlining the details of this movement? If so, Id love to educate myself if you know? Maybe I'm over thinking this movement and am off base, but from what I know, there is no clear agenda other than universal everything for all?
 
CupWizier said:
I never responded to you and have absolutely no interest in ever having a discussion with you and definitely will not be partaking in anything at your place. Also, get over the "stalker whining" you continue to try and claim.

GFY
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Okay. Well thanks for clarifying.
 
Orion Bailey said:
No fair enough, but I haven't really heard a determination made with regards to the socialist movement happening now? Have you? All Ive really heard and read from those pushing it is universal everything. Where are the lines being drawn in this movement? are you saying it is a movement from a republic to a true democracy? (which would have its own set of concerns about nothing ever getting done if the vote percent needs to be high enough to satisfy the masses)

Is there something out there outlining the details of this movement? If so, Id love to educate myself if you know? Maybe I'm over thinking this movement and am off base, but from what I know, there is no clear agenda other than universal everything for all?
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During the pandemic....600 billionaires profited to the tune of almost a trillion dollars while 30 million people lost jobs....8.5 million was given a corporate exec that he invested in the stock market and took gambling to Vegas.....Bernie Sanders made a speech about this a couple days ago....and yes...I believe capitalistic greed as we have come to know it is dying out and those who see that coming are cashing out.....on the topic do you think these 600 billionaires should be allowed to use tax shelters overseas to keep from paying into our infrastructure and public services? I'm anti greed....and it's way out of control so yeah...it's going to be a big shakeup....the real estate balloon is out of control as well....young working couples starting families should be able to buy a house, groceries, have insurance and start a family...young couples I know who have jobs are struggling to do that but people are flipping properties and inflating housing costs like wildfire....this is unsustainable in the long run as well.Also some property owners who've suffered damages to businesses in cities were going out of business anyway and now can get some insurance money on their way out....people don't talk about that much....next month a lot of houses are going to be defaulted on and recycled through the billionaire club again....it's a pattern. My son makes 28 bucks an hour and has to spend 1000 a month out of his check for insurance to cover him, his wife and new baby.....yeah...he could use affordable health care and the ironic thing is, he collects money for a medical clinic for a living
 
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riverman said:
During the pandemic....600 billionaires profited to the tune of almost a trillion dollars while 30 million people lost jobs....8.5 million was given a corporate exec that he invested in the stock market and took gambling to Vegas.....Bernie Sanders made a speech about this a couple days ago....and yes...I believe capitalistic greed as we have come to know it is dying out and those who see that coming are cashing out.....on the topic do you think these 600 billionaires should be allowed to use tax shelters overseas to keep from paying into our infrastructure and public services? I'm anti greed....and it's way out of control so yeah...it's going to be a big shakeup....the real estate balloon is out of control as well....young working couples starting families should be able to buy a house, groceries, have insurance and start a family...young couples I know who have jobs are struggling to do that but people are flipping properties and inflating housing costs like wildfire....this is unsustainable in the long run as well.
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Im not saying what has happened is right. What im asking is what makes you think a government with even more control wont do similar things but worse because the people have even less say in a less free government?

I fully believe our taxation regulations need a complete overhaul. And there needs ot be a better set of checks and balances. I don't agree with that being giving the government more of my money to make it happen.

I mean in this post you are talking about corrupt politicians teaming up with wall street. In the other option you just have greedy politicians not needing to team up with anyone.

A free market will always cater to supply and demand and thus have ups and downs. Nothing will ever level out in any system if that is what you are wanting.
 
Proof Trump is a boob!

117704554_10157860731272983_8320190162252837584_n.jpg
 
Our head moderator, sly, has made a request that we make this a safe haven for Trump supporters. Okay, the request was very polite and I'm going to comply, being that it was so politely requested. No more ragging on my part on anything to the far Right from me which means I'll probably not be in here any more.
 
eaf36fa0-84b9-11ea-be32-0f3e0281b40creal trump .png
(This is what he really looks like all day long)
 

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