Oregon Ballot Measure 88

[SlyPokerDog]

http://www.wweek.com/portland/article-23168-driving_her_loco.html

 

[SlyPokerDog]

I'm voting no.

 

[JfizzleBlazer]

I'm also voting no

 

[MarAzul]

I can't image why an Oregon resident would vote for this. Why the heck does the State need to issue licenses to anyone from somewhere else before they become a resident? When I go some where else I use my Oregon License or the International.

Funny how the people that disagree say this is a racist position. Weird!

I think that lady might be whipping a dead horse though, probably time to move the hell out of Salem if you don't like your neighborhood. I guess you could say the last 50 years have not been good to Salem, about 50 years ago it was rated the best City in American to live. Probably can't make the top 100 now.

No on 88!

The salient line in the article;
"Democrats wanted to solve a small part of the immigration problem here, given Congress’ failure to do so, while shoring up political support from the growing ranks of Latino voters."

 

[Natebishop3]

I'm voting maybe.

 

[HomerLovesKoolAid]

I'm waiting til Nate votes and then do the opposite.

 

[BlazerDuckSeahawkFan94]

Holy fuck the comments section of that article are a hoot... Oregon is so fucked lol

 

[Fez Hammersticks]

Ah, the Jesse Ventura "none of the above" option.

 

[Natebishop3]

I'm waiting til Nate votes and then do the opposite.

What's the opposite of maybe?

 

[BlazerWookee]

I hope there's a "shit no" box on the ballot...

 

[blue32]

wow, insane.

Voting No. There is no way in hell I support illegal immigrants getting any benefits from our country.

 

[BlazerDuckSeahawkFan94]

wow, insane.

Voting No. There is no way in hell I support illegal immigrants getting any benefits from our country.

You racist pig!

 

[MarAzul]

I can't image why an Oregon resident would vote for this. Why the heck does the State need to issue licenses to anyone from somewhere else before they become a resident? When I go some where else I use my Oregon License or the International.

Funny how the people that disagree say this is a racist position. Weird!

I think that lady might be whipping a dead horse though, probably time to move the hell out of Salem if you don't like your neighborhood. I guess you could say the last 50 years have not been good to Salem, about 50 years ago it was rated the best City in American to live. Probably can't make the top 100 now.

No on 88!

The salient line in the article;
"Democrats wanted to solve a small part of the immigration problem here, given Congress’ failure to do so, while shoring up political support from the growing ranks of Latino voters."

Not much for Congress to fix with immigration. The only failure in the system is with the executive policy on immigration. We have laws now that he ignores. Beyond that the American voter needs to make a correction.

 

[BigGameDamian]

wow, insane.

Voting No. There is no way in hell I support illegal immigrants getting any benefits from our country.

A lot of them already do come and get benefits from our country.

 

[magnifier661]

I'm voting yes... What is this ballot again?

 

[maxiep]

I was going to vote no, but then someone called me a xenophobe. I want to be with the cool kids, so I'm now voting yes.

 

[jlprk]

Republicans say

1. I want my fruits and vegetables cheap. Prevent inflation.
2. Unemployed whites will take Mexicans' jobs.
3. Don't raise the minimum wage.

Republicans will be proven wrong on at least one of those points.

 

[barfo]

Yes, making illegal immigrants stand in line at the DMV is giving them a special privilege we want to keep for ourselves.

barfo

 

[julius]

Yes, making illegal immigrants stand in line at the DMV is giving them a special privilege we want to keep for ourselves.

barfo

Yeah, we pay our Mexican maids to do that!

 

[donkiez]

Maybe Im missing something but this whole measure just seems like a bandaid fix for a side issue in the overall immigration debate. Immigration reform is a never ending debate issue that no one in government seems to really want to fix. In the mean time we have tons of illegal workers who are already here and already driving and already working. With this measure they would have the option to not break the law, or break it less. I really dont see any harm in this measure. At this point Im voting yes but Im still considering it.

 

[tlongII]

What's the opposite of maybe?

Maybe not?

 

[MarAzul]

Maybe Im missing something but this whole measure just seems like a bandaid fix for a side issue in the overall immigration debate. Immigration reform is a never ending debate issue that no one in government seems to really want to fix. In the mean time we have tons of illegal workers who are already here and already driving and already working. With this measure they would have the option to not break the law, or break it less. I really dont see any harm in this measure. At this point Im voting yes but Im still considering it.

I do not understand a Yes vote unless you simply like to vote the wrong way, then you have the main problem with direct democracy, it gives everyone the chance to vote the wrong way.

When I go to Mexico, guess what? I drive using my Oregon drivers license quite legally. Mexicans can also drive legally using Mexican drivers license here in Oregon. Now why in the hell do they need an Oregon drivers license? Only one answer to that question. Obfuscate the fact that you have over stayed the legal time limit in this country. I don't know of a good reason to vote for obfuscation, it is not a band aid.

 

[Further]

Well I see both sides, but one thing that pisses me off is the bullshit racist tag being thrown around for stuff like this. There are racist people and activities, but if we overuse the term on people making a normal decision than it takes teeth out of the term where it's actually deserved.

As far as the actual measure, my first impulse is to say no, illegals can't get legal licenses here, it's just not right. But looking a little deeper in the real world, one with millions of illegals already here, it makes the streets safer and allows the illegals to get insurance too, so when I get into an accident with them I can get recompensed. Or perhaps one of them learns the signs and laws and doesn't get into a fatal crash with my family. Ok, on second thought, I'm now leaning yes.

 

[donkiez]

As far as the actual measure, my first impulse is to say no, illegals can't get legal licenses here, it's just not right. But looking a little deeper in the real world, one with millions of illegals already here, it makes the streets safer and allows the illegals to get insurance too, so when I get into an accident with them I can get recompensed. Or perhaps one of them learns the signs and laws and doesn't get into a fatal crash with my family. Ok, on second thought, I'm now leaning yes.

Question, why isnt it right and what harm would it actually do? I am still looking for a solid reason to say no on this and cant find one...... Although Mar's point that I am just plain wrong and that he can drive legally in Mexico is very persuasive.

For the record I think its a bullshit law that wont fix anything. Most illegals wont bother because they dont care, but for the few that do care there should be options so they dont have to break the broken laws. My issue with the opposition is that their main stance is that illegals shouldnt be here anyway so lets not make it any easier for them. That argument doesnt really stand in reality though and creates a destructive denial mentality.

 

[Further]

Question, why isnt it right and what harm would it actually do? I am still looking for a solid reason to say no on this and cant find one...... Although Mar's point that I am just plain wrong and that he can drive legally in Mexico is very persuasive.

For the record I think its a bullshit law that wont fix anything. Most illegals wont bother because they dont care, but for the few that do care there should be options so they dont have to break the broken laws. My issue with the opposition is that their main stance is that illegals shouldnt be here anyway so lets not make it any easier for them. That argument doesnt really stand in reality though and creates a destructive denial mentality.

Well, playing devils advocate, I have a few points.

1) you yourself just admitted the law won't really help, so why add a law with no real upside.

2) drivers licenses are used for more than just driving, they are a form of ID used for finding places to live, flying, jobs, and give the illegals a means to appear legal. Taking that away will make it more difficult in America to be an illegal and more likely they get caught and sent back whenst they came.

3) if this not given of licenses were used as a template to stop giving other privileges, then perhaps America wouldn't seem like such a great place to come. Imagine if all rights we withdrawn, no healthcare, no education, no assistance whatsoever, do you think the illegals would (1) stop coming and (2) be easier to catch and transfer.


Now I don't think that's realistic, and it's mean to human beings, so would not be in favor, but that doesn't mean the reasons don't exist.

 

[donkiez]

Well, playing devils advocate, I have a few points.

1) you yourself just admitted the law won't really help, so why add a law with no real upside.

2) drivers licenses are used for more than just driving, they are a form of ID used for finding places to live, flying, jobs, and give the illegals a means to appear legal. Taking that away will make it more difficult in America to be an illegal and more likely they get caught and sent back whenst they came.

3) if this not given of licenses were used as a template to stop giving other privileges, then perhaps America wouldn't seem like such a great place to come. Imagine if all rights we withdrawn, no healthcare, no education, no assistance whatsoever, do you think the illegals would (1) stop coming and (2) be easier to catch and transfer.


Now I don't think that's realistic, and it's mean to human beings, so would not be in favor, but that doesn't mean the reasons don't exist.

Good point I think you hit on the crux of the overall argument. If you feel illegal immigrants are a burden on our society and have no real value then I guess I can see those points. To a certain degree there is credence to that argument but my feeling is that most of the burden they place on us is because of our own backwards system that is made to exploit them. Ive also spent a lot of time traveling, even doing immigrant type jobs in New Zealand as an apple picker in my youth (Motueka in da house eh bro). That was fun stuff, but I was actually issues a worker id number, which was a separate system to their own social security number system. No farmer would hire me without this because of harsh penalties and I paid taxes on my income. I also went to the hospital a few times for very little cost. I was treated well and welcomed by their country, but I did have a limit to my stay and because of their system it was easier to keep track of me and make sure I left. They all laughed at us openly and often.

 

[MarAzul]

Well I see both sides, but one thing that pisses me off is the bullshit racist tag being thrown around for stuff like this. There are racist people and activities, but if we overuse the term on people making a normal decision than it takes teeth out of the term where it's actually deserved.

As far as the actual measure, my first impulse is to say no, illegals can't get legal licenses here, it's just not right. But looking a little deeper in the real world, one with millions of illegals already here, it makes the streets safer and allows the illegals to get insurance too, so when I get into an accident with them I can get recompensed. Or perhaps one of them learns the signs and laws and doesn't get into a fatal crash with my family. Ok, on second thought, I'm now leaning yes.

You forgot, most already have a drivers license with their Mexican address on it. Giving them and Oregon license just gives them a documented address here, it doesn't make them anymore legal.

 

[donkiez]

You forgot, most already have a drivers license with their Mexican address on it. Giving them and Oregon license just gives them a documented address here, it doesn't make them anymore legal.

Do they? And if so why cant they just use that?

 

[Further]

As I said, I see both sides. Personally I come down on the side of wanting those illegal immigrants to fit into the American puzzle that raises everybody up. If they are the types of people who really want to participate and be a positive while here, then they would be the types who would go and learn the laws, get a license and get insured. So in the end, voting no only harms those who are trying to be law abiding and a benefit in the US. Voting no will have zero effect on the illegal immigrants who aren't trying to be something better while here. So it hurts the "good" immigrants and has no effect on the "bad" immigrants.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

As I said, I see both sides. Personally I come down on the side of wanting those illegal immigrants to fit into the American puzzle that raises everybody up. If they are the types of people who really want to participate and be a positive while here, then they would be the types who would go and learn the laws, get a license and get insured. So in the end, voting no only harms those who are trying to be law abiding and a benefit in the US. Voting no will have zero effect on the illegal immigrants who aren't trying to be something better while here. So it hurts the "good" immigrants and has no effect on the "bad" immigrants.

Good immigrants would come here legally like my father did.