Game Thread Oregon Ducks vs Auburn Tigers - August 31st, 2019, 4:30pm

[SlyPokerDog]

The Ducks did cover the spread!

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

I want to see if Tyler Shough can play. He’s 6’5 and was considered a great passer (not much of a runner) in HS.

 

[calvin natt]

His best throw was to Webb in the end zone when he threw it up for him.

But my problems with him have been the same every year irregardless of his coaches. I get that the physical gifts are there, but he just never makes big plays, when the team needs a big play. I would guess that part of it is play calling / coaching, but he certainly shares some blame.

He made about six throws better than that one. That one just ended up a TD. Cristobal is a PERFECT assistant coach. This game was lost due to some shoddy play calling, mis-using timeouts and not being able to adjust to Auburn’s adjustments to the Ducks after halftime. Having their receivers would have been enough of a difference to win, but they should have won anyway.

 

[Tince]

His best throw was to Webb in the end zone when he threw it up for him.

But my problems with him have been the same every year irregardless of his coaches. I get that the physical gifts are there, but he just never makes big plays, when the team needs a big play. I would guess that part of it is play calling / coaching, but he certainly shares some blame.

By what measurement was this his best throw? He made a couple really nice throws, including one that was dropped for a TD. I'm not sure he's being asked to make many tough throws due to the receiver and play calling issues.

You say he never makes a big play, so does this not count?

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

By what measurement was this his best throw? He made a couple really nice throws, including one that was dropped for a TD. I'm not sure he's being asked to make many tough throws due to the receiver and play calling issues.

You say he never makes a big play, so does this not count?

No it doesnt, that was their 4th win of the entire season. They sucked that year. What was big about it? That Utah was ranked? That it helped them to a 4 win season I believe that was the second to last game of the season for them too.

They want to ever win a NC they need big plays in big moments by their QB’s. That was not a big moment for the school, not a big play for the team as a whole that year, yes you’d rather win then lose but there shot at “big” moments had long passed them in 2016 when they beat Utah...

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

He made about six throws better than that one. That one just ended up a TD. Cristobal is a PERFECT assistant coach. This game was lost due to some shoddy play calling, mis-using timeouts and not being able to adjust to Auburn’s adjustments to the Ducks after halftime. Having their receivers would have been enough of a difference to win, but they should have won anyway.

He had a “good” throw to a wide open Johnson in the 1st quarter. A couple decent ones to Breeland but a vast majority of his throws were in the flat or screens. He made a pretty good threw on the run for a 1st. It wasnt that it ended up a TD it was he throw it high to where only his guy had a chance at it, that made it a good throw.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

I guess you guys can defend Herbert all you want it, its opinion and I’ll respect your opinion.

So far Im just of the opinion he’s very much a game manager QB and the NFL talk is almost all due to the physique he fits the traditional NFL body. I think his actual playing of the game has left a lot to be desired.

 

[hoopsjock]

He had a “good” throw to a wide open Johnson in the 1st quarter. A couple decent ones to Breeland but a vast majority of his throws were in the flat or screens. He made a pretty good throw on the run for a 1st. It wasnt that it ended up a TD it was he throw it high to where only his guy had a chance at it, that made it a good throw.

I know I was quite frustrated last night and wasn't going to comment in here after the game started since I didn't want to do the same but...

What I see is a guy who is afraid to throw guys open or make anticipation decisions. He's great when the play design gets someone open or on short safe passes but I noticed several times on out routes in particular where the WR had a step on the DB but the throw would need to be in a tight window and he refuses to throw the ball so it's there when the WR makes his break. That is an absolute must in the NFL.

I'm not talking about throwing it up for your receiver on a jump ball. It's little things like hitting your receiver on the back outside shoulder even if he's covered.

 

[Tince]

No it doesnt, that was their 4th win of the entire season. They sucked that year. What was big about it? That Utah was ranked? That it helped them to a 4 win season I believe that was the second to last game of the season for them too.

They want to ever win a NC they need big plays in big moments by their QB’s. That was not a big moment for the school, not a big play for the team as a whole that year, yes you’d rather win then lose but there shot at “big” moments had long passed them in 2016 when they beat Utah...

So your qualifications for a big win are dependent on the talent/coaching around him and the opponent on the schedule, neither of which is in his control. Based off your criteria I'm guessing the only opportunities he's had to make a big throw would be against Washington last year (which he made some solid plays down the stretch) and against Auburn.

What throw in a clutch moment did he really screw up tonight? What play call provided a semi-open receiver down field that he should have hit?

 

[Tince]

I know I was quite frustrated last night and wasn't going to comment in here after the game started since I didn't want to do the same but...

What I see is a guy who is afraid to throw guys open or make anticipation decisions. He's great when the play design gets someone open or on short safe passes but I noticed several times on out routes in particular where the WR had a step on the DB but the throw would need to be in a tight window and he refuses to throw the ball so it's there when the WR makes his break. That is an absolute must in the NFL.

I'm not talking about throwing it up for your receiver on a jump ball. It's little things like hitting your receiver on the back outside shoulder even if he's covered.

Could you provide 2-3 plays tonight where you saw this? I'd love if you provided quarter and time so I could go back and watch. It's difficult for me to make these judgements watching on TV because they rarely show the receivers down field, but if there are examples that would be educational.

 

[HailBlazers]

Could you provide 2-3 plays tonight where you saw this? I'd love if you provided quarter and time so I could go back and watch. It's difficult for me to make these judgements watching on TV because they rarely show the receivers down field, but if there are examples that would be educational.

There was one first down on the last drive where Herbert had a guy with a step on the DB and decided to pump fake and dive down to the line of scrimmage for no gain instead.

 

[Tince]

There was one first down on the last drive where Herbert had a guy with a step on the DB and decided to pump fake and dive down to the line of scrimmage for no gain instead.

Sweet, I'll check that out

 

[Tince]

There was one first down on the last drive where Herbert had a guy with a step on the DB and decided to pump fake and dive down to the line of scrimmage for no gain instead.

On the last drive the only play I could find where he took a sack was this one around the 2:30 mark.



He was rolling to his right looking at these two receivers, pressure came quickly, Herbstreit remarks how nobody was open, and he took a sack.

I suppose its possible he could've tried to thread the needle on the flat, but with 2 minutes left and a lead, throwing a pick 6 would have been far worse. Not sure the risk/reward was in his favor. Even if you disagree, one missed read a game is pretty solid.

 

[hoopsjock]

Could you provide 2-3 plays tonight where you saw this? I'd love if you provided quarter and time so I could go back and watch. It's difficult for me to make these judgements watching on TV because they rarely show the receivers down field, but if there are examples that would be educational.

There was a play in the 1st quarter on the 2nd drive (7:35 left in the quarter) where Herbert rolls to his left. The play is clearly for Addison on a little out route. If Herbert throws it anticipating right when Addison breaks outside it's an easy completion even though the DB is in pretty tight coverage but Addison is open when he breaks. Instead he holds onto the ball too long and has to throw it away. Herbstreit even mentions on the replay that Herbert isn't trusting his eyes.

I'm not going to go back and watch for more examples, ha ha.

 

[Mediocre Man]

So basically Oregon is almost as good as an also ran in the SEC.

Why can't we have nice things?

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

On the last drive the only play I could find where he took a sack was this one around the 2:30 mark.

View attachment 27468

He was rolling to his right looking at these two receivers, pressure came quickly, Herbstreit remarks how nobody was open, and he took a sack.

I suppose its possible he could've tried to thread the needle on the flat, but with 2 minutes left and a lead, throwing a pick 6 would have been far worse. Not sure the risk/reward was in his favor. Even if you disagree, one missed read a game is pretty solid.

He had problems all night with letting the ball go, usually he would pump and about half way decide he didnt like it and fall forward, for a yard or so.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

So your qualifications for a big win are dependent on the talent/coaching around him and the opponent on the schedule, neither of which is in his control. Based off your criteria I'm guessing the only opportunities he's had to make a big throw would be against Washington last year (which he made some solid plays down the stretch) and against Auburn.

What throw in a clutch moment did he really screw up tonight? What play call provided a semi-open receiver down field that he should have hit?

Yeah he hasnt had a lot of chances, but he had Washington, and Stanford last year and part of the reason he hasnt had more chances is he hasnt made them good enough to be a part of important games.

Is it all on him? Of course not, but I still stand by he has done almost nothing football wise that looks like an NFL QB or like he actually deserves the “hype” he gets.

The hype is all physical tools. Herberts “legend” was made by how badly Taggart coached them when he got hurt in 2017. They were “ok” with him and terrible without (largely due to how they basically didn't trust Bermeister and just ran the same play over and over and over.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

So your qualifications for a big win are dependent on the talent/coaching around him and the opponent on the schedule, neither of which is in his control. Based off your criteria I'm guessing the only opportunities he's had to make a big throw would be against Washington last year (which he made some solid plays down the stretch) and against Auburn.

What throw in a clutch moment did he really screw up tonight? What play call provided a semi-open receiver down field that he should have hit?

I really want to ask what clutch throws did he MAKE???? Well he didnt make a major mistake, ok, but he really did nothing all around for most of the 2nd half.

 

[calvin natt]

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

View attachment 27469

Honestly I havent been high on Herbert ever it wasnt just yesterday, so maybe its just seeing what I want to see, but here we are there shot at the NC is out after week 1. Thats fun.

 

[Hoopguru]

2011 Ducks lose same game against LSU then win 10 in a row and 12 of next 13 games including beating Russel Wilson Bowl game.
Very tough hurting loss but they will be ok...nobody expects them to win the naddy but they have a chance to win the Pac12.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

2011 Ducks lose same game against LSU then win 10 in a row and 12 of next 13 games including beating Russel Wilson Bowl game.
Very tough hurting loss but they will be ok...nobody expects them to win the naddy but they have a chance to win the Pac12.

Honestly, it's kind of playoff's or bust for me at this point. Don't really care about winning the pac12 or some random bowl game that no one outside of Oregon fans will care about.

 

[calvin natt]

Honestly I havent been high on Herbert ever it wasnt just yesterday, so maybe its just seeing what I want to see, but here we are there shot at the NC is out after week 1. Thats fun.

Definitely not out of it. If Auburn has a good season. They could have started off with the usual South Dakota or Eastern Washington and everyone would be happy I guess.

 

[Hoopguru]

Honestly, it's kind of playoff's or bust for me at this point. Don't really care about winning the pac12 or some random bowl game that no one outside of Oregon fans will care about.

That's cool.
Ive been a college football fan ever since I was a young boy as my father and uncles were too.
For me its all about getting toe the Rose bowl and winning the grandaddy of them all, if at all possible.
I always rooted for Pac8 teams and always root for Pac12 teams to beat teams other conferences. I always do win or lose.

 

[calvin natt]

Also - how many times did the Ducks hike the ball without running the play clock all the way down? With Auburn winning in the final seconds that killed Oregon.

 

[tlongII]

Cristobal can recruit.

 

[wizenheimer]

Honestly, it's kind of playoff's or bust for me at this point. Don't really care about winning the pac12 or some random bowl game that no one outside of Oregon fans will care about.

c'mon TBF....four teams (out of 130) make the playoffs and no 2 loss PAC-12 team will ever get in (unless it's a totally fluke year and the 2 loss team is USC). The Ducks were 4-8, 7-6, and 9-4 the last 3 seasons, and that 9-4 record was padded with 3 wins against the weakest non-conference schedule the Ducks had in 15 years

so then, you're saying Oregon has to run off 12 straight wins (including the Pac-12 title game), then get voted into the playoffs (which they wouldn't if there were 4 other 1 loss teams from the SEC, Big-10, and Big-12) or the season is a bust?

that's simply unrealistic. For chrissakes, the Ducks had 4 losses in conference last season (while getting Stanford and Washington at Autzen), and you expect them to go undefeated the next season? That was never going to happen and even a 1 loss conference record was a real long shot. The Ducks have to play at Stanford, at Washington, and at USC....not a chance
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yeah, Oregon kind of blew last night's game. As much as a 7 point underdog, essentially on the road, against a good team can blow it. They simply missed two great opportunities in the 1st half. Addison's drop of a sure TD, and the Herbert/Verdell botched read-option (and the right edge was wide open for Herbert on that play). Just give Oregon 10-14 more 1st half points, take away the Auburn FG, and the Ducks lead 24-3 or even 28-3 at halftime. After each team's possession in the 2nd half, the Ducks would have lead either 31-3 or 35-3. Game over because Auburn wouldn't have had the luxury of using a power running game in the 2nd half and keeping Oregon's defense honest. Of course, Auburn blew a couple of opportunities themselves, but not as significantly as Oregon did

you keep hammering Hebert. I saw Hebert make one bad pass all night...that last hail mary and that was bad enough to be a WTF moment. He can't miss the end zone by 7 yards throwing from 40 yards away. But other than that, he made several great passes, including about a half-dozen tight-window possession throws. Having watched the spring game, I think the Ducks, and Herbert, really missed Juwan Johnson a ton. He's the kind of physical possession receiver that could have killed Auburn in this game, especially considering Oregon's passing game plan.

it wasn't Herbert that dropped the pass in the end zone; it wasn't Herbert that told Travis Dye to have coverage busts on two wheel routes; it wasn't Herbert that was too slow on the defensive substitutions that left an Auburn WR open for a TD; it wasn't Herbert that tackled Spenser Webb (Breeland?) one foot short of the marker on 3rd down. Herbert wasn't even on the field when the Ducks ran that 4th down play into the teeth of the Auburn defense...when everybody knew they'd run left.

Auburn made two or three great plays on defense in the last 3 minutes. The Ducks didn't. That was the game and that's not on Herbert
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try this out: Saladin McCullough, Rueben Droughns, Maurice Morris, Onterio Smith, Terrence Whitehead, Jonathon Stewart, Jeremiah Johnson, Legarrette Blount, LaMichael James, Kenyon Barner, Deanthony Thomas, Royce Freeman

that's 20 consecutive years of Duck running backs. CJ Verdell and Travis Dye just aren't in that class. The only RB they might be as good as is Whitehead, and the couple of season when Whitehead was the 'featured' back the Ducks went 8-5 and 5-6. I could make the same kind of list with WR's and the contrast over that same 20 year period and the last couple of seasons would be even more stark

the point being that this year and last, because of recruiting failures (thanks Willie) and injuries, Oregon has had their weakest set of offensive skill position units in over 2o years. That even extends to tight ends. It's hard for Herbert to be a gunslinger when he has little ammunition at receiver and a defense doesn't fear the RB's. Simply put: the Ducks just don't have the offensive skill to be a playoff team...not yet

another thing: from Bellotti thru Chip thru Helfrich, Oregon had an extremely successful strategy and philosophy with the offensive line. Steve Greatwood ran it extremely well. That was that Oregon 'grew their own' OLinemen. They recruited tall rangy guys with great mobility that would develop to great linemen as upper-classmen. And with that mobility, those linemen were always capable of getting to the 2nd level and blocking LB's and safeties. It worked exceptionally in the Pac-12. IIRC, Oregon led the conference in rushing for something like 13 straight years

Cristobal is changing that. He's recruiting beef...big time. He wants big physical OLines that can punish a defense; Alabama style. I really have some doubts it will work out, and the results so far have built those doubts because smaller quicker opposing front-7's have caused the Ducks all kinds of problems (WSU, Boise State, Michigan State). So far, Cristobal's lines haven't been that good at getting to the 2nd level and opening downfield running lanes.

Of course, they might have been much more successful if they were blocking for Reuben Droughns, or Legarrette Blount, or Lamichael James, rather that Verdell or Dye. And Herbert would almost certainly have looked like a much better QB if he was throwing to Pat Johnson, or Tony Hartley, or Keenan Howry, or Sammie Parker, or Justin Peele, or Ed Dickson, or Demetrius Williams, or Tim Day, or Jaison Williams or Dante Rosario, or Ed Dickson, or Jeff Maehl, or Lavasier Tueini, or Deanthony Thomas, or David Paulson, or Josh Huff, or Bralon Addison, or Pharoh Brown rather than too Brendon Schooler or Johnny Johnson

Sure, that was overkill on names but I was trying to demonstrate that Herbert has simply had the worst set of supporting skill players of any Oregon QB in the last 25 years. Herbert certainly isn't on the level of Mariotta or Joey Harrington. But put him on those Oregon teams of Darron Thomas under Chip Kelly, and he'd be considered one of the best ever.

I think you also have to account for this: Herbert had 3 different head coaches, 3 different OC's and 3 different offensive systems over his first 3 years as the starting QB. Even Mariotta would have struggled with that. A QB needs continuity and some high level supporting talent...Herbert hasn't had either

sorry for the friggin novel. I doubt anyone has read it all the way thru. I just get irritated when people give bad grades because they have unrealistic expectations

 

[Tince]

I really want to ask what clutch throws did he MAKE???? Well he didnt make a major mistake, ok, but he really did nothing all around for most of the 2nd half.

I get your point. He went 18 for his last 19 in the 2nd half before the last play of the game. None of the throws were spectacular, but they were all competitions. When all the plays appear to be short routes because the inexperienced receivers struggle to get open, I'm not sure it's fair to expect him to make a great down field throw.

He was spectacular last year against Stanford and made multiple big plays down the stretch in the Washington win. If those 3 games are the only big games we're judging him off of, he was pretty good in all 3, completing 71% of his passes and averaging 263yds/game.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

I get your point. He went 18 for his last 19 in the 2nd half before the last play of the game. None of the throws were spectacular, but they were all competitions. When all the plays appear to be short routes because the inexperienced receivers struggle to get open, I'm not sure it's fair to expect him to make a great down field throw.

He was spectacular last year against Stanford and made multiple big plays down the stretch in the Washington win. If those 3 games are the only big games we're judging him off of, he was pretty good in all 3, completing 71% of his passes and averaging 263yds/game.

I expect an experienced "Heisman candidate", type of QB to throw guys open, find their outside shoulders, put the ball where his receivers have a shot even if guarded. I'm not pinning the entire loss on him, but I think he is a majorly over-rated as a QB so far, he's been a game manager to me, doesn't really win you a lot of games, or lose you a lot either. Yes he's got the height / weight the NFL likes, but I don't see him making NFL type throws very often and I guess what I get annoyed at is that people have literally said he should be a number one pick, and tout him as a Heisman candidate and I have never once felt he looked like that type of QB, he looks like that type of athlete.

Also, HE made huge mistakes in all three, he fumbled the ball last night near the goal line, he fumbled in the Stanford game last year near the goal line. Both lead to points.

I think Herbert is just an "Ok / Good", college QB that gets talked up way more than is deserved.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

c'mon TBF....four teams (out of 130) make the playoffs and no 2 loss PAC-12 team will ever get in (unless it's a totally fluke year and the 2 loss team is USC). The Ducks were 4-8, 7-6, and 9-4 the last 3 seasons, and that 9-4 record was padded with 3 wins against the weakest non-conference schedule the Ducks had in 15 years

so then, you're saying Oregon has to run off 12 straight wins (including the Pac-12 title game), then get voted into the playoffs (which they wouldn't if there were 4 other 1 loss teams from the SEC, Big-10, and Big-12) or the season is a bust?

that's simply unrealistic. For chrissakes, the Ducks had 4 losses in conference last season (while getting Stanford and Washington at Autzen), and you expect them to go undefeated the next season? That was never going to happen and even a 1 loss conference record was a real long shot. The Ducks have to play at Stanford, at Washington, and at USC....not a chance
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yeah, Oregon kind of blew last night's game. As much as a 7 point underdog, essentially on the road, against a good team can blow it. They simply missed two great opportunities in the 1st half. Addison's drop of a sure TD, and the Herbert/Verdell botched read-option (and the right edge was wide open for Herbert on that play). Just give Oregon 10-14 more 1st half points, take away the Auburn FG, and the Ducks lead 24-3 or even 28-3 at halftime. After each team's possession in the 2nd half, the Ducks would have lead either 31-3 or 35-3. Game over because Auburn wouldn't have had the luxury of using a power running game in the 2nd half and keeping Oregon's defense honest. Of course, Auburn blew a couple of opportunities themselves, but not as significantly as Oregon did

you keep hammering Hebert. I saw Hebert make one bad pass all night...that last hail mary and that was bad enough to be a WTF moment. He can't miss the end zone by 7 yards throwing from 40 yards away. But other than that, he made several great passes, including about a half-dozen tight-window possession throws. Having watched the spring game, I think the Ducks, and Herbert, really missed Juwan Johnson a ton. He's the kind of physical possession receiver that could have killed Auburn in this game, especially considering Oregon's passing game plan.

it wasn't Herbert that dropped the pass in the end zone; it wasn't Herbert that told Travis Dye to have coverage busts on two wheel routes; it wasn't Herbert that was too slow on the defensive substitutions that left an Auburn WR open for a TD; it wasn't Herbert that tackled Spenser Webb (Breeland?) one foot short of the marker on 3rd down. Herbert wasn't even on the field when the Ducks ran that 4th down play into the teeth of the Auburn defense...when everybody knew they'd run left.

Auburn made two or three great plays on defense in the last 3 minutes. The Ducks didn't. That was the game and that's not on Herbert
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try this out: Saladin McCullough, Rueben Droughns, Maurice Morris, Onterio Smith, Terrence Whitehead, Jonathon Stewart, Jeremiah Johnson, Legarrette Blount, LaMichael James, Kenyon Barner, Deanthony Thomas, Royce Freeman

that's 20 consecutive years of Duck running backs. CJ Verdell and Travis Dye just aren't in that class. The only RB they might be as good as is Whitehead, and the couple of season when Whitehead was the 'featured' back the Ducks went 8-5 and 5-6. I could make the same kind of list with WR's and the contrast over that same 20 year period and the last couple of seasons would be even more stark

the point being that this year and last, because of recruiting failures (thanks Willie) and injuries, Oregon has had their weakest set of offensive skill position units in over 2o years. That even extends to tight ends. It's hard for Herbert to be a gunslinger when he has little ammunition at receiver and a defense doesn't fear the RB's. Simply put: the Ducks just don't have the offensive skill to be a playoff team...not yet

another thing: from Bellotti thru Chip thru Helfrich, Oregon had an extremely successful strategy and philosophy with the offensive line. Steve Greatwood ran it extremely well. That was that Oregon 'grew their own' OLinemen. They recruited tall rangy guys with great mobility that would develop to great linemen as upper-classmen. And with that mobility, those linemen were always capable of getting to the 2nd level and blocking LB's and safeties. It worked exceptionally in the Pac-12. IIRC, Oregon led the conference in rushing for something like 13 straight years

Cristobal is changing that. He's recruiting beef...big time. He wants big physical OLines that can punish a defense; Alabama style. I really have some doubts it will work out, and the results so far have built those doubts because smaller quicker opposing front-7's have caused the Ducks all kinds of problems (WSU, Boise State, Michigan State). So far, Cristobal's lines haven't been that good at getting to the 2nd level and opening downfield running lanes.

Of course, they might have been much more successful if they were blocking for Reuben Droughns, or Legarrette Blount, or Lamichael James, rather that Verdell or Dye. And Herbert would almost certainly have looked like a much better QB if he was throwing to Pat Johnson, or Tony Hartley, or Keenan Howry, or Sammie Parker, or Justin Peele, or Ed Dickson, or Demetrius Williams, or Tim Day, or Jaison Williams or Dante Rosario, or Ed Dickson, or Jeff Maehl, or Lavasier Tueini, or Deanthony Thomas, or David Paulson, or Josh Huff, or Bralon Addison, or Pharoh Brown rather than too Brendon Schooler or Johnny Johnson

Sure, that was overkill on names but I was trying to demonstrate that Herbert has simply had the worst set of supporting skill players of any Oregon QB in the last 25 years. Herbert certainly isn't on the level of Mariotta or Joey Harrington. But put him on those Oregon teams of Darron Thomas under Chip Kelly, and he'd be considered one of the best ever.

I think you also have to account for this: Herbert had 3 different head coaches, 3 different OC's and 3 different offensive systems over his first 3 years as the starting QB. Even Mariotta would have struggled with that. A QB needs continuity and some high level supporting talent...Herbert hasn't had either

sorry for the friggin novel. I doubt anyone has read it all the way thru. I just get irritated when people give bad grades because they have unrealistic expectations

Ok Im on my phone so this response wont be as good as what your post deserves.

Its not that I expect a NC its that nothing else really is a fulfilling season for me. A rose bowl, ok? Thats nice but its a consolation prize for not getting 1st, its like a division championship in the NBA ok.

I get that Herbert hasnt been surrounded by Clemson / Bama level talent, but they have had good recruiting classes of late. I think its fair to say Verdell and Dye thus far dont look like LaMichael James or Deanthony Thomas, and I get that but I also dont believe that Herbert is making those guys better. Herbert might move on to the NFL and be the next Mahommes I don't know, but I very much believe he hasn't ever performed in college like the hype around him suggests he should. Yes he’s had good games and here and there a great one, but I dont feel like he makes NFL like throws and reads, I dont think he makes a lot of winning plays. The best thing about him is he rarely losses the game. Though in the stanford / Auburn games his fumbles led to huge momentum shifts.

Whats interesting though is those long list of names, very few of there offensive players have gone on to do much in the NFL. So its not like their college talent has ever been like Bama who churns out NFL RB’s.

Im sure the coaching and play calling doesn't help Herbert either. There are lots of factors and its not just Herbert, I just dont like all the hype around Herbert as some Heisman level QB or that he’s “number 1 pick”, worthy. Thats what irks me. He’s never really come close to Mayfield, Mariota, Manziel, Winston, etc numbers and WINS.

I’ll still enjoy watching the Ducks this year, but its frustrating that every shot they get to actually get some respect, for them OR the conference they find ways to lose. They continue to prove the points that their critics make. They continue the tradition that in those type of games they might come close, they may even dominate parts of the game, but they will find ways to choke. Its old, and definitely not 100% on Herbert, but also he’d get the “glory” if they won, so he can take some of the blame when they lose.