Oregon House Bill 3200

[RoyToy]

If you are a hunter, what the hell is wrong with practicing to kill something? Is it better to kill an animal cleanly and instantaniously, or shoot it through the paunch so it can suffer until you track it down and kill it....if you can find it.

Target shooting is not practicing to kill something. It is a hobby that requires good hand/eye coordination to become good at it. The goal is to make very tight groups of hole in a paper target. How the hell is that practicing to kill something?

I know LOTS of people that shoot targets and don't hunt, and would pray that they never need to see how they would perform if put in a situation to defend their life with a gun. Many of the target shooters I know have every one of their guns locked in a safe, because of the presence of kids or grandkids. So, they don't hunt, and they don't have guns for home defense. They have guns to shoot targets with, because they like to do that.

I also think killing animals is lame "sport". I'll never understand it. I have no desire to kill anything that isn't trying to kill me.

 

[MickZagger]

I also think killing animals is lame "sport". I'll never understand it. I have no desire to kill anything that isn't trying to kill me.

Seriously.

Get on a level playing field. Get a fishing pole or something.

 

[oldguy]

The fact still remains that guns are made to kill things.

And,
Guns are made for target shooting.
Guns are made to provide food for the table.
Guns are made to protect one's self, family and property.
Guns are made to protect one's self from government oppression.

A man I work with nearly lost his 81 year old mother about a year ago. She was still in pretty good mental and physical shape. She didn't like guns and didn't own one.

Some douche broke into her house, raped her, beat her nearly to death, stole her car and left her for dead.

If she had owned a gun, and knew how to use it, and practiced with it, she may have had a chance to kill the guy instead of going through hell herself.

For you personally, do you think it would have been a bad thing if a gun (that was made to kill things), had been used killed the scumbag and saved her form her torment?

As a side note, I'm surprised at how few women own guns. They are the only equalizer that is a game changer when they are accosted by a man that means to harm them.

Go Blazers

 

[RoyToy]

And,
Guns are made for target shooting.
Guns are made to provide food for the table.
Guns are made to protect one's self, family and property.
Guns are made to protect one's self from government oppression.

A man I work with nearly lost his 81 year old mother about a year ago. She was still in pretty good mental and physical shape. She didn't like guns and didn't own one.

Some douche broke into her house, raped her, beat her nearly to death, stole her car and left her for dead.

If she had owned a gun, and knew how to use it, and practiced with it, she may have had a chance to kill the guy instead of going through hell herself.

For you personally, do you think it would have been a bad thing if a gun (that was made to kill things), had been used killed the scumbag and saved her form her torment?

As a side note, I'm surprised at how few women own guns. They are the only equalizer that is a game changer when they are accosted by a man that means to harm them.

Go Blazers

Just because I don't get why someone likes to hunt and kill unsuspecting animals doesn't mean I think people shouldn't be allowed to own guns.

Guns for self-defense is a very logical reason to own a gun if you choose to do so.

 

[RoyToy]

And while it would be obviously against a law, I certainly wouldn't be upset with you hunting down the guy that did that to your mom and killing him.

Fuck him.

 

[oldguy]

Nice present.

The first thing that Dad/Mom should say to him is, "We are going to treat that gun just like it is a real gun. When you mess up with gun safety, we are going to take it away until you earn it back."

"Listen Bub, the first thing you do when you are handed a gun is point the barrel in a safe direction. Always treat the gun as if it is loaded."

"Good job, the very next thing you do is make sure the gun is unloaded. Pull the magazine out of the well.

Cool, now pull the bolt all the way back and make sure there is no bullet in the chamber.

Excellent, now lock the bolt back into place.

Now EVERYONE looking at the gun can see that it is unloaded and safe. Then nobody has to be nervous about it."

This would go on for a long time as they teach him about how to be safe and responsible about firearms. They would have the opportunity to talk about how you don't get to say 'sorry' when you shoot someone. He could learn that he needs to respect guns, but he doesn't need to fear them.

This is the kind of quality time that parents and children should cherish. This is Dad/Son bonding at it's best. This is how character is built.

Or, alternatively, they could just hand him the new toy and move to the next one, BlackOps2 and a new PS3. Then the boy could use the tactics he learns on the video game to steal his Dad's SKS, go school and settle up with the kids that made fun of his glasses.

Go Blazers

 

[oldguy]

I hate guns...and everything about them. Oh, and I'm a life-long conservative.

If you are as good a Christian as you seem to be, I guess you don't have a reason to like guns. Me, I'm not as confident. I'm going to try to hang around as long as I can.

Go Blazers

 

[MARIS61]

I also think killing animals is lame "sport". I'll never understand it. I have no desire to kill anything that isn't trying to kill me.

I understand. You like the power of paying others to kill for you.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

 

[MARIS61]

Batting cage - You are practicing hitting a ball

Driving range - practicing hitting a ball

Shooting range - Practicing killing something

I'll just never understand how someone gets off shooting guns for fun.

Batting cage - You are practicing hitting a ball thrown by a machine = waste of time

Driving range - practicing hitting a ball nowhere in particular = waste of time

Shooting range - Practicing subsistence hunting and self defense = possibly the difference between life or death

I'll just never understand how someone gets off on hiding their head in the sand.

 

[oldguy]

When is the last time you've heard of the government coming into someones house and taking something of theirs?

Are you going senile?

Sorry, but I AM getting embarrassed for you now.

First, I didn't say a damned thing about government coming into houses and taking stuff. Nice straw man, though.

But since you bring it up, Section 4 of HB 3200 had a provision wherein, if you chose to register your "Assault Weapon", then you had to store it securely. The law would have left it to the state police to work out what 'securely' means. (Safes? Trigger locks? Both?) It goes on to say

"The department may conduct inspections of registered owners of assault weapons and large capacity magazines to ensure compliance with the storage requirements..."

It doesn't say how often I would have had to submit to this invasion of my privacy. It's also silent as to how much it would have cost me for the privilege.

If the gun was not 'stored securely' when the inspection occured, the bill was silent on what would happen. Since I would be out of compliance with the law (if AW wasn't stored securely) I would expect that they would at least seize my AW. They might arrest me too, but like I said, it's not explicit in the bill.

So, yeah, I think it was very likely that HB 3200 would result in government going into houses and taking guns.

So, maybe you could explain how you see it written differently. Maybe back it up with more than your ill-informed opinion?

Go Blazers

 

[oldguy]

I also think killing animals is lame "sport". I'll never understand it. I have no desire to kill anything that isn't trying to kill me.

Do you eat meat, RoyToy?

Go Blazers

 

[oldguy]

Seriously.

Get on a level playing field. Get a fishing pole or something.

Same question to you, MZ. Do you eat meat?

Go Blazers

 

[oldguy]

Seriously.

Get on a level playing field. Get a fishing pole or something.

Why is it ok to kill fish, but somehow unworthy to kill a rabbit?

You couldn't hold my jock fishing for steelhead or salmon. I haven't hunted in 15 years, it was just an example of a legitimate reason to practice shooting/killing.

Finally, why should anyone care if you like hunting? It's legal, it's fun, and the animals taste good.

Go Blazers

 

[oldguy]

Just because I don't get why someone likes to hunt and kill unsuspecting animals doesn't mean I think people shouldn't be allowed to own guns.

Guns for self-defense is a very logical reason to own a gun if you choose to do so.

I guess I'm confused. You believe it's ok to use guns for self defense. Then why be critical of people that like to practice? If you are going to use a gun for defense, you SHOULD practice, no? You need to have confidence that you can hit what you need to hit, without hitting something you don't want to hit. You need to stay familiar with how your weapon works. You get to practice safe gun handling skills.

Go Blazers

 

[MickZagger]

Why is it ok to kill fish, but somehow unworthy to kill a rabbit?

You couldn't hold my jock fishing for steelhead or salmon. I haven't hunted in 15 years, it was just an example of a legitimate reason to practice shooting/killing.

Finally, why should anyone care if you like hunting? It's legal, it's fun, and the animals taste good.

Go Blazers

I highly doubt that. I slay salmon like you could only dream. I could show you holes that would blow your mind old timer.

 

[RoyToy]

I guess I'm confused. You believe it's ok to use guns for self defense. Then why be critical of people that like to practice? If you are going to use a gun for defense, you SHOULD practice, no? You need to have confidence that you can hit what you need to hit, without hitting something you don't want to hit. You need to stay familiar with how your weapon works. You get to practice safe gun handling skills.

Go Blazers

Shooting guns for fun is different than knowing how to use your firearm.

Shooting unsuspecting animals? Yeah, no thanks.

 

[TradeNurkicNow]

This devolved into a pissing match rather quickly.

Welcome to your rhetoric level, America.

 

[jlprk]

When's the hunting season on Afghans end? Any year now?

 

[drexlersdad]

I could show you holes that would blow your mind.

 

[BrianFromWA]

When's the hunting season on Afghans end? Any year now?

when they stop trying to blow up little kids and women, or kidnapping them to shake down farmers to blow up people for them.

And it's not just Afghans. See Somalia, the Sahel, Yemen, Oman, Phillipines, etc.

PS: The VAST majority don't want us to leave. But the ANSF are coming along pretty well.

 

[jlprk]

The vast majority of Americans want you to leave. If the vast majority of Afghans don't want you to leave, why has it taken you 11 years to only stalemate an opponent with no Army, Air Force, Navy, or neighboring nation allied governments supplying them (as the Viet Cong had through the Ho Chi Minh Trail)? If you want them to stop rebelling against the American puppet government, you could always try leaving.

Brian, I realize that you are dedicated and aren't going to change. Also that your superiors probably are not crazy about their guys debating antiwar people, with possible morale loss. So I'll stop and you have the last word.

 

[RoyToy]

[video=youtube;dsDOTTgjBP0]

 

[BrianFromWA]

I understand your antiwar dedication and that you're not going to change. My on this board is (and always has been) to attempt to educate or to show a side that doesn't always get seen.

I'm by no means a Vietnam War expert (to accept or to refute your HCM Trail analogy), but it's fallacy to think that "no neighboring governments (are) supplying them." A vast majority of the insurgency comes from Pakistan, Iran and other Arab states such as Saudi Arabia. One of the major goals of the Provincial Reconstruction Teams (I'm on a base with Danes and Brits) is increasing (at the express request of the Afghans) the capacity for standard education in Afghanistan, so that kids aren't being schooled in radical Pakistani madrassas where Wahabbism and Insurgency are preached. The normal everyday businessman and farmer that I meet with doesn't want people planting IEDs in his field. The normal everyday businessman doesn't want to be stopped along the road and either pay an exorbitant "checkpoint bribe" to the Taliban or get his family killed. The normal everyday Afghan is trying to make a living without being caught up in insurgent attacks or explosions. And the increase of the ANSF's numbers and their capability to fight the insurgency will only help maintain that security so that, when the "combat troops" leave, the field is sown for USAID, Peace Corps, UN Development Programme, State Dept., Doctors without Borders, Red Cross/Red Crescent, etc. to continue their "normal" development work.

You think this is a war and want Americans out of the war, for philosophical, moral or budgetary reasons. That's fine. You (in other posts) have consistently referred to Iraq and Afghanistan as if they are the same conflict. They're not. You look at Afghanistan like it's a 12-year war. It's not. There were ~10k US Forces in Afghanistan total during the "major Iraq years" 2001-2006, which combined with a constitutional requirement to limit the number of ANSF to less than 70k (and curtailing their training) allowed the insurgency to recruit more from other neighboring countries, to get more cash from the Gulf States, and to re-take strategic areas like Kandahar and Helmand province. That's one of the things that the Commander-in-Chief is trying to stay away from in 2014. By the end of the year the US Forces in Afghanistan are going to be about 25% of what they were in the Afghan Surge, and now that the ANSF can handle security (for the most part) on their own we're able to hand off that portion to them. But this is by no means a native insurgency--it's a power play by neighboring countries to keep Afghanistan instable and insecure in order to fulfill their own geopolitical goals. As you know from the Manning-leaked State Department cables, there are some bad people in the world and when they get into power it takes a lot to stand up to them and/or protect against them.

There's a reason that there are professionals who can look strategically at things, instead of those who see a 30-second sound bite at the top of the news and spin it around to fit their worldview (whichever that may be). It's not necessarily your (or any other American's) fault--you're simply not privy to real information about this subject (for multiple reasons, with security and information classification being only the most mundane of them), and you're making decisions accordingly. I'm not saying that this part of the Global War on Terror that was just-about-unanimously started 11+ years ago has always been run correctly, or efficiently. But there is a strategy in place by the Commander-in-Chief to continue supporting our GIRoA allies against the (for the vast majority) outsider-run insurgency they're facing, and to attempt to short-circuit that because of something that NBC, Fox News or Jon Stewart says in a 30-second blurb is irresponsible.

 

[TradeNurkicNow]

dropping knowledge

 

[jlprk]

Man. There's so much nonsense in that, that it's tempting to rebut it. But it would be an hour wasted, and I said you'd have the last word. I'm glad I said that--it saves me an hour.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

Man. There's so much nonsense in that, that it's tempting to rebut it. But it would be an hour wasted, and I said you'd have the last word. I'm glad I said that--it saves me an hour.

Not sure what your definition of the "the last word" is, but you saying his last word is nonsense sounds a lot like you getting in the last word.

 

[Natebishop3]

Now I've got the last word!

 

[PapaG]

I also think killing animals is lame "sport". I'll never understand it. I have no desire to kill anything that isn't trying to kill me.

I assume you're a vegan, then? Also, if you don't know why hunting allowed, and how it impacts crops and other essentials, such as range land for livestock, then that's on you.

I don't hunt either, but unless you never eat any meat or any fish, you're nothing but a hypocrite by taking your stance.

 

[PapaG]

Originally Posted by MickZagger
When is the last time you've heard of the government coming into someones house and taking something of theirs?

Are you going senile?