Oregon Standoff Verdict: Not Guilty on all charges

[EL PRESIDENTE]

I really didn't follow this much.

But not Guilty on All Charges.

 

[jlprk]

Tremendous.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

OUT JUST IN TIME TO VOTE FOR TRUMP

 

[Natebishop3]

Interesting...... how come?

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

WHITE PRIVILEGE

 

[barfo]

Hard to understand that verdict. Either we got a dumber than usual jury, or the prosecutors fucked up in a epic way.

barfo

 

[Natebishop3]

Hard to understand that verdict. Either we got a dumber than usual jury, or the prosecutors fucked up in a epic way.

barfo

It sounds like they had to be unanimous. This is a pretty contentious topic. Hard to be unanimous.

 

[EL PRESIDENTE]

Hard to understand that verdict. Either we got a dumber than usual jury, or the prosecutors fucked up in a epic way.

barfo

OR PERHAPS WHAT THEY DID DID NOT MEET THE BURDEN OF PROOF

 

[barfo]

OR PERHAPS WHAT THEY DID DID NOT MEET THE BURDEN OF PROOF

Right... that was someone else who did that stuff, that just looked like the Bundy's.

barfo

 

[Denny Crane]

And Hiliar is somehow innocent.

 

[Stevenson]

They sure seemed guilty but I sure love it when someone is acquitted in a criminal trial. In a trial, the government brings to bear so much power, money, authority, and resources and the defendant out there on his or her own with a single defense lawyer usually - that and the presumption of innocence. And the defendant is found not guilty.

Is this a great country or what?

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Stunning verdict. Lets hope these dipshits leave Oregon.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

So I did follow the trial pretty closely. They sure seemed guilty to me. Where I think the government lost the case was the amount of paid government informants that were at the refuge. Just like the Bundy's and their followers have made a career sucking off of the government's tit and while screaming for more, the also is a rather large group of losers who the government pays to hang out with the Bundy's. It's this giant weird industry of right wing whack jobs and the government paying to keep track of them.

 

[blue32]

Hahahaha.. this cracks me up.

 

[santeesioux]

WHITE PRIVILEGE

I LOOK FORWARD TO THE INDIAN PROTESTERS IN NORTH DAKOTA GETTING THE SAME RESULT.

 

[Natebishop3]

So I did follow the trial pretty closely. They sure seemed guilty to me. Where I think the government lost the case was the amount of paid government informants that were at the refuge. Just like the Bundy's and their followers have made a career sucking off of the government's tit and while screaming for more, the also is a rather large group of losers who the government pays to hang out with the Bundy's. It's this giant weird industry of right wing whack jobs and the government paying to keep track of them.

I was reading some comments by other people who followed the case, and this is exactly what they said.

There were 15 paid government informants in the group, so when the informants outnumber the defendants, the line between intent and entrapment becomes blurry. I also read that the charges that the DA went for were harder to prove, and they should have just gone with trespassing and disturbing the peace.

 

[Natebishop3]

This is pretty fucked up.

http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-st...ends_surreal_scene_le.html#incart_maj-story-1

Olson said Mumford was getting animated, but he did nothing physical. He didn't charge the bench, or block marshals from his client. "He raised his arm as if to say, what the hell...And they grabbed him, Tased him and took him down. It was just shocking. It was completely inappropriate,''Olson said.

Defense lawyer Matthew Schindler, standby counsel for defendant Kenneth Medenbach, said he was disappointed by Mumford's challenge to his client's return to custody, considering he faces more serious federal charges in Nevada.

Schindler said Mumford was exhausted, having "put out everything he had,'' during the past six weeks of the case.

"Unfortunately he let his passion and desire and belief in his client overcome his good judgement,'' Schindler said.

Margaret "Margie" Paris, a University of Oregon law professor and former dean, said she couldn't believe what occurred when she learned of the confrontation.

"It just blows my mind,'' Paris said. "To have a lawyer who's making an argument in court physically restrained and taken down is extraordinary. He's entitled to make these arguments. If he was repeating himself over and over, the more typical response is to hold him in contempt. But to physically accost him is just shocking.''

 

[e_blazer]

It seems that the prosecution failed to make its case that the intent was to prevent government employees from doing their jobs:

The jury returned unanimous verdicts of "not guilty'' to conspiracy charges against all seven defendants. Each was accused of conspiring to prevent employees of the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service and Bureau of Land Management from carrying out their official work through intimidation, threat or force during the 41-day occupation.

Juror 4 noted the panel couldn't simply rely on the defendants' "defining actions'' to convict.

"All 12 agreed that impeding existed, even if as an effect of the occupation,'' he wrote.

"But we were not asked to judge on bullets and hurt feelings, rather to decide if any agreement was made with an illegal object in mind,'' the Marylhurst student wrote. "It seemed this basic, high standard of proof was lost upon the prosecution throughout.''

http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-st...prosecutors_in_oregon.html#incart_maj-story-1

While I think the Bundys and crew are a-holes, it seems to me that the decision is a good one for our civil rights. Even though I don't agree with these folks' protest or the way they went about it, using a law like this could be used to attempt to quash other civil protests.

 

[Natebishop3]

It seems that the prosecution failed to make its case that the intent was to prevent government employees from doing their jobs:



http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-st...prosecutors_in_oregon.html#incart_maj-story-1

While I think the Bundys and crew are a-holes, it seems to me that the decision is a good one for our civil rights. Even though I don't agree with these folks' protest or the way they went about it, using a law like this could be used to attempt to quash other civil protests.

Seems like the prosecution got greedy and went for some charges that were much more difficult to prove.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

I wonder how many federal informants we have in the forum and how do I get to be one?

 

[Nikolokolus]

Seems like the prosecution got greedy and went for some charges that were much more difficult to prove.

Yeah. The conspiracy charge with the specter of entrapment (who knows what the informants were saying while they were there?) made that a pretty big reach. If they would have gone for criminal trespass and vandalism it would have been much easier to prosecute.

 

[Natebishop3]

Yeah. The conspiracy charge with the specter of entrapment (who knows what the informants were saying while they were there?) made that a pretty big reach. If they would have gone for criminal trespass and vandalism it would have been much easier to prosecute.

Well, also wasn't it something to do with trying to prove that they were preventing federal employees from doing their job while there weren't any federal employees out there? It's hard to prevent someone from doing something if they're not actually there.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

Well, also wasn't it something to do with trying to prove that they were preventing federal employees from doing their job while there weren't any federal employees out there? It's hard to prevent someone from doing something if they're not actually there.

Would you show up to your job if people armed with guns had taken over your office?

 

[Natebishop3]

Would you show up to your job if people armed with guns had taken over your office?

Wasn't the occupation during the time of the year when it's shut down? I didn't really follow the occupation or the trial because, frankly, I don't give a shit about a bunch of rednecks that took over a government building in the middle of nowhere.

 

[Nikolokolus]

Well, also wasn't it something to do with trying to prove that they were preventing federal employees from doing their job while there weren't any federal employees out there? It's hard to prevent someone from doing something if they're not actually there.

One could argue that the people that worked at the refuge had work tied to computers on the premises. I can freely admit as a contractor for FWS that not everything gets stored on a network (very little in fact).

 

[Nikolokolus]

Wasn't the occupation during the time of the year when it's shut down? I didn't really follow the occupation or the trial because, frankly, I don't give a shit about a bunch of rednecks that took over a government building in the middle of nowhere.

Refuges have work they do year round.

 

[Natebishop3]

Refuges have work they do year round.

Eh, you're probably right. I have no idea. Just parroting something that I had read as one possible reason the verdict was not guilty.

 

[e_blazer]

I'm sure that there's work to be done at the refuge year around, but the case hinged on proving that the intent of the protest was to keep federal workers from doing their jobs. That seems like a pretty high bar to prove. And, would you want them to be jailed on such a charge? The next BLM protest in DC might keep federal workers from doing their jobs.

 

[Natebishop3]

I'm sure that there's work to be done at the refuge year around, but the case hinged on proving that the intent of the protest was to keep federal workers from doing their jobs. That seems like a pretty high bar to prove. And, would you want them to be jailed on such a charge? The next BLM protest in DC might keep federal workers from doing their jobs.

Yup. That charge seems to have a bit of a slippery slope.

They should have pursued the low hanging fruit and called it a day. Pretty much everyone knows they are guilty of trespassing and vandalism.

 

[SlyPokerDog]

I wonder if there will be a civil suit filled? Those idiots did millions of dollars worth of damage.