OT - First female NBA referee Violet Palmer announces she is gay

[rasheedfan2005]

This just in.... LaMarcus Aldridge makes a public announcement that he is straight.

You beat me to it

 

[dviss1]

It was pretty obvious. She evaluated me at a camp in Oregon City. She had a lot of great wisdom to offer about officiating. She is the Pac12 Assignor on the Women's side. I'd love to work for her. (That would mean I'd be making close to $1500 per game).

 

[MARIS61]

Funny that she was the last to know.

 

[Mediocre Man]

Completely unexpected.

 

[riverman]

In keeping with the spirit, I'm going to officially announce riverman is straight. Everyone I've ever met knows this but it's time to officially announce it. Where's my medal?

 

[riverman]

I'm calling out all the NBA players who've yet to declare their heterosexuality. C'mon, be the first to announce it. It's important

 

[SlyPokerDog]

A Blazer blazer?

They probably have a registry somewhere if anyone really wants to gift them.

There aren't many opportunities to try and get on a ref's good side. I was serious about chipping in on getting her a wedding gift. We can use all the help we can get from the refs.

Find the registry or I'll just send you some money for you to bake them something nice.

 

[riverman]

I didn't read this before posting a similar answer, sorry mags..I just skip to the last page on these threads usually

 

[crandc]

I'm calling out all the NBA players who've yet to declare their heterosexuality. C'mon, be the first to announce it. It's important

Are you kidding me?

Every player who, on being drafted, kisses his wife or girlfriend is announcing he's straight. One player kisses his boyfried and the world freaks.

Every player who informs the world he is engaged to be married announces he's straight.

Every player who goes to strip clubs and gets lap dances announces he's straight.

Every player who, when being interviewed by a female reporter, puts an arm around her, something he never does with a male, is announcing he's straight.

Every player who shows up at a hot spot with a date, or with 2 young ladies on his arms, is announcing he's straight.

Every player who carries his new baby into the locker room to be admired is announcing he's straight, although gay men can and do father children.

Straight people announce they are straight every day of their lives. It's just that since they think they and only they are "the norm", no one notices. They only notice when a gay person announces he/she is gay. Then they ask, why do you have to tell the world? In other words, why do you gay folks think you can behave like straight folks and announce your engagement? How dare you think you're equal?

 

[bodyman5000 and 1]

Are you kidding me?

Every player who, on being drafted, kisses his wife or girlfriend is announcing he's straight. One player kisses his boyfried and the world freaks.

Every player who informs the world he is engaged to be married announces he's straight.

Every player who goes to strip clubs and gets lap dances announces he's straight.

Every player who, when being interviewed by a female reporter, puts an arm around her, something he never does with a male, is announcing he's straight.

Every player who shows up at a hot spot with a date, or with 2 young ladies on his arms, is announcing he's straight.

Every player who carries his new baby into the locker room to be admired is announcing he's straight, although gay men can and do father children.

Straight people announce they are straight every day of their lives. It's just that since they think they and only they are "the norm", no one notices. They only notice when a gay person announces he/she is gay. Then they ask, why do you have to tell the world? In other words, why do you gay folks think you can behave like straight folks and announce your engagement? How dare you think you're equal?

I want this to sound respectful but am afraid it won't. Oh well. I think you may need to find someone to read these threads for you, someone who might catch on to what people's posts intend. I didn't for a second get the impression you got.

 

[Minstrel]

I want this to sound respectful but am afraid it won't. Oh well. I think you may need to find someone to read these threads for you, someone who might catch on to what people's posts intend. I didn't for a second get the impression you got.

What impression did you get? I got the impression that people were sick of gay people "announcing" anything to do with their sexuality because straight people don't make announcements.

I thought crandc's post was pretty spot-on in response to that.

 

[MARIS61]

Every player who, on being drafted, kisses his wife or girlfriend is announcing he's straight. One player kisses his boyfried and the world freaks.

Every player who informs the world he is engaged to be married announces he's straight.

Every player who goes to strip clubs and gets lap dances announces he's straight.

Every player who, when being interviewed by a female reporter, puts an arm around her, something he never does with a male, is announcing he's straight.

Every player who shows up at a hot spot with a date, or with 2 young ladies on his arms, is announcing he's straight.

Every player who carries his new baby into the locker room to be admired is announcing he's straight, although gay men can and do father children.

Straight people announce they are straight every day of their lives. It's just that since they think they and only they are "the norm", no one notices. They only notice when a gay person announces he/she is gay. Then they ask, why do you have to tell the world? In other words, why do you gay folks think you can behave like straight folks and announce your engagement? How dare you think you're equal?

Ignoring your lumping of over 5 billion people together under the insulting label of "straight people" and declaring "they" are all self-absorbed bigots, your post is still 100% hogwash.

All of your examples of "straightness" have been publicly performed countless times before by homosexuals. Homosexuals often marry members of the other sex, engage in sex with members of the other sex, and have children with the other sex.

Frankly, I'm surprised you were unaware of this.


As an example,... Jason Collins was engaged to be married to his college sweetheart, former WNBA player Carolyn Moos. The two were together for eight years before Jason called off the wedding in 2009, leaving Carolyn heartbroken and confused as to why the relationship ended. The truth wouldn't be revealed to her until years later -- just a few days before Jason publicly announced his homosexuality in Sports Illustrated.

 

[rasheedfan2005]

What impression did you get? I got the impression that people were sick of gay people "announcing" anything to do with their sexuality because straight people don't make announcements.

I thought crandc's post was pretty spot-on in response to that.

I see it as not a big fucking deal so who cares? Just like who cares if I like checking a womans oil with my dip stick.

The only way this would be news is if her wife/gf what ever is hot and they make a hot scissoring tape.

 

[Minstrel]

I see it as not a big fucking deal so who cares?

Who cares when anyone announces their getting married? Anyone who cares, cares. The rest don't.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Are you kidding me?

Every player who, on being drafted, kisses his wife or girlfriend is announcing he's straight. One player kisses his boyfried and the world freaks.

Every player who informs the world he is engaged to be married announces he's straight.

Every player who goes to strip clubs and gets lap dances announces he's straight.

Every player who, when being interviewed by a female reporter, puts an arm around her, something he never does with a male, is announcing he's straight.

Every player who shows up at a hot spot with a date, or with 2 young ladies on his arms, is announcing he's straight.

Every player who carries his new baby into the locker room to be admired is announcing he's straight, although gay men can and do father children.

Straight people announce they are straight every day of their lives. It's just that since they think they and only they are "the norm", no one notices. They only notice when a gay person announces he/she is gay. Then they ask, why do you have to tell the world? In other words, why do you gay folks think you can behave like straight folks and announce your engagement? How dare you think you're equal?

I guess what I'm waiting for is the gay athlete who, rather than announcing his homosexuality, simply does any of those things you mentioned without intentionally calling attention to himself. I think Michael Sam would have made a much more significant statement by kissing his boyfriend on national TV after being drafted WITHOUT having publicly announced his homosexuality first.

 

[Minstrel]

I guess what I'm waiting for is the gay athlete who, rather than announcing his homosexuality, simply does any of those things you mentioned without intentionally calling attention to himself. I think Michael Sam would have made a much more significant statement by kissing his boyfriend on national TV after being drafted WITHOUT having publicly announced his homosexuality first.

If he had aimed for that, there's a decent chance he would have been "outed" before the draft and the uproar would have taken place that he would have had to react to. Knowing that such a revelation causes a stir, I can't really blame an athlete for preferring to get out ahead of it, announce it himself/herself and say the things they'd like to say before all the media reactions begin.

Also, I suspect that if it had played out the way you suggest he should have gone for, there would have been intense criticism of Sam hijacking draft night. I suspect (as again I cannot prove) that however he chose to handle it, there would have been plenty of people who would have criticized the choice as being self-serving.

 

[rasheedfan2005]

Who cares when anyone announces their getting married? Anyone who cares, cares. The rest don't.

I sure as fuck dont. I tried like hell to miss my sisters wedding.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

If he had aimed for that, there's a decent chance he would have been "outed" before the draft and the uproar would have taken place that he would have had to react to. Knowing that such a revelation causes a stir, I can't really blame an athlete for preferring to get out ahead of it, announce it himself/herself and say the things they'd like to say before all the media reactions begin.

Why did he have to "aim" for anything? If he had been "outed" because he chose to live his life out in the open, what he would have been reacting to is other people making an issue out of something that is, supposedly, not an issue. In my (privileged straight white male) mind, "equality" is not just being treated the same as others by others, but behaving around others as though you're no different than others.

If he had been outed, and then responded like "yeah, so I'm gay...who cares?", that would have been a major step. I'm still waiting to see that happen.

 

[crandc]

I guess what I'm waiting for is the gay athlete who, rather than announcing his homosexuality, simply does any of those things you mentioned without intentionally calling attention to himself. I think Michael Sam would have made a much more significant statement by kissing his boyfriend on national TV after being drafted WITHOUT having publicly announced his homosexuality first.

But that's pretty much what Violet Palmer did. She announced her upcoming wedding.

I was not aware that I said 5 billion people are self absorbed bigots. I guess Maris sees things no one else does. And I really and truly do not need Maris to tell me what gay folks "do".

Hit a nerve, maybe?

 

[Minstrel]

Why did he have to "aim" for anything? If he had been "outed" because he chose to live his life out in the open, what he would have been reacting to is other people making an issue out of something that is, supposedly, not an issue. In my (privileged straight white male) mind, "equality" is not just being treated the same as others by others, but behaving around others as though you're no different than others.

If he had been outed, and then responded like "yeah, so I'm gay...who cares?", that would have been a major step. I'm still waiting to see that happen.

When you know something is going to trigger a media and relations storm, most people would like to have a measure of control over it, rather than have everyone react to it first. Especially when your job might be riding on it. At the time, it was still far from clear whether he'd be drafted amid the revelation that he was gay. Like with anything else that might jeopardize your employment chances (even when the thing is not a moral wrong), a person would like to address in on their own terms.

How things are framed matter. That's why Martin Luther King's oratories weren't, "Yeah, I'm black, who cares?" No one should care, but in a society where people do care, there's unfortunately also an element of persuasion required.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

But that's pretty much what Violet Palmer did. She announced her upcoming wedding.

I was not aware that I said 5 billion people are self absorbed bigots. I guess Maris sees things no one else does. And I really and truly do not need Maris to tell me what gay folks "do".

Hit a nerve, maybe?

Agreed--the contrast between Palmer and Sam was significant. And the response to her was, for the most part, " OK...so?" Thank you for spring my point.

As for anything that MARIS said...I have no comment.

 

[rasheedfan2005]

I guess what I'm waiting for is the gay athlete who, rather than announcing his homosexuality, simply does any of those things you mentioned without intentionally calling attention to himself. I think Michael Sam would have made a much more significant statement by kissing his boyfriend on national TV after being drafted WITHOUT having publicly announced his homosexuality first.

But we need drama and we need government to spend time governing social issues.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

When you know something is going to trigger a media and relations storm, most people would like to have a measure of control over it, rather than have everyone react to it first. Especially when your job might be riding on it. At the time, it was still far from clear whether he'd be drafted amid the revelation that he was gay. Like with anything else that might jeopardize your employment chances (even when the thing is not a moral wrong), a person would like to address in on their own terms.

How things are framed matter. That's why Martin Luther King's oratories weren't, "Yeah, I'm black, who cares?" No one should care, but in a society where people do care, there's unfortunately also an element of persuasion required.

MLK was also trying to get laws changed, and was intending to be the leader of a movement. Neither of those are true of Sam, so the comparison is not really valid.

The notion of controlling reaction is fallacious, in my mind. You can't control how people respond to you or what you do; you can only control what you do, and how you respond. Michael Sam chose to act in one way, for whatever reason. All I'm saying is that it would be nice to see someone treat it differently.

 

[Minstrel]

MLK was also trying to get laws changed, and was intending to be the leader of a movement. Neither of those are true of Sam, so the comparison is not really valid.

I think the comparison is valid; it doesn't have to be a precise one-for-one mapping to be a reasonable comparison. There are other differences, too, like you can't really be "outed" as black (unless you're a mysterious radio star, perhaps). I don't think those differences are relevant to what I was saying...it doesn't matter if Sam was a "leader" of the movement or attempting to change laws; to me, the key was both (to varying degrees) were attempting to change perceptions. "So what?" can be argued as one way to change perceptions, but I don't think most people would say it's the strongest way to do so. If you believe it is, we can agree to disagree.

The notion of controlling reaction is fallacious, in my mind. You can't control how people respond to you or what you do; you can only control what you do, and how you respond.

I didn't say "control" connoting absolute control. I said "a measure of control," which denotes some influence. You can't absolutely control anything about other people, but it's absurd to suggest that a person can have no influence at all over how people react to things you say or do. Show up to work naked one day, I promise it'll influence how people react to you. That doesn't mean you controlled them like puppets. It means that the way you, er, framed things changed the way they reacted.

 

[MARIS61]

I was not aware that I said 5 billion people are self absorbed bigots. I guess Maris sees things no one else does. And I really and truly do not need Maris to tell me what gay folks "do".

Straight people announce they are straight every day of their lives. It's just that since they think they and only they are "the norm", no one notices. They only notice when a gay person announces he/she is gay. Then they ask, why do you have to tell the world? In other words, why do you gay folks think you can behave like straight folks and announce your engagement? How dare you think you're equal?

I can't imagine what you may have meant by this other than all straight people are robotic, self-absorbed bigots.

It's a fairly nasty attack, even for you.

But maybe I'm not reading between the lines properly, and it's a cleverly disguised compliment?

 

[rasheedfan2005]

God hates gays but gay god hates straights. When will it end?

 

[PtldPlatypus]

I think the comparison is valid; it doesn't have to be a precise one-for-one mapping to be a reasonable comparison. There are other differences, too, like you can't really be "outed" as black (unless you're a mysterious radio star, perhaps). I don't think those differences are relevant to what I was saying...it doesn't matter if Sam was a "leader" of the movement or attempting to change laws; to me, the key was both (to varying degrees) were attempting to change perceptions. "So what?" can be argued as one way to change perceptions, but I don't think most people would say it's the strongest way to do so. If you believe it is, we can agree to disagree.

The bolded part speaks to my initial post, where I said, "What I'm waiting for is...". To rephrase, "what I'm waiting for" is the gay athlete who is comfortable enough with his homosexuality to feel neither the need to hide reality nor attempt to change perception, but to simply be an athlete who happens insignificantly to be gay, rather than be, significantly, a gay athlete.

 

[Minstrel]

The bolded part speaks to my initial post, where I said, "What I'm waiting for is...". To rephrase, "what I'm waiting for" is the gay athlete who is comfortable enough with his homosexuality to feel neither the need to hide reality nor attempt to change perception, but to simply be an athlete who happens insignificantly to be gay, rather than be, significantly, a gay athlete.

Personally, I think you're shifting the burden oddly. I would say, I'm waiting for the society that considers the distinction between gay and straight to be insignificant rather than implying that the person living in the discriminatory society, and operates based on that fact, is at fault.

I think prejudiced perceptions should be changed, and I respect people who attempt to do so. I don't view that as a failing which you, apparently, do.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Personally, I think you're shifting the burden oddly. I would say, I'm waiting for the society that considers the distinction between gay and straight to be insignificant rather than implying that the person living in the discriminatory society, and operates based on that fact, is at fault.

Not at fault, per se, but perhaps a bit hypocritical. When Tony Dungy says that he wouldn't have drafted Michael Sam because of the distraction his presence would likely generate, he is publicly derided for saying he would operate based on how the world is, rather than how it should be. Yet when Michael Sam publicly announces his sexual orientation, he is celebrated for operating based on how the world is, rather than how it should be.

I think prejudiced perceptions should be changed, and I respect people who attempt to do so. I don't view that as a failing which you, apparently, do.

You're presuming that because I'm not in favor of public announcements regarding sexuality, that I'm in favor of bigotry? That's unreasonable, and I might add, a bit prejudiced. All I've said I think that not making an issue of one's own sexuality would speak loudly about one's feeling about the significance thereof. Inferring more than that is you bringing your own biases to the table.

 

[Minstrel]

Not at fault, per se, but perhaps a bit hypocritical. When Tony Dungy says that he wouldn't have drafted Michael Sam because of the distraction his presence would likely generate, he is publicly derided for saying he would operate based on how the world is, rather than how it should be. Yet when Michael Sam publicly announces his sexual orientation, he is celebrated for operating based on how the world is, rather than how it should be.

How does that make Sam hypocritical? At best, you're arguing that the media (or whomever you mean as the public) is being hypocritical.

You're presuming that because I'm not in favor of public announcements regarding sexuality, that I'm in favor of bigotry? That's unreasonable, and I might add, a bit prejudiced.

You may want to re-read what I wrote. I never accused you of bigotry or being in favor of it. I said that you see "trying to change perceptions" as a failing, which seems reasonable from this:

To rephrase, "what I'm waiting for" is the gay athlete who is comfortable enough with his homosexuality to feel neither the need to hide reality nor attempt to change perception

You said you're waiting for someone who's comfortable enough in their homosexuality to not attempt to change perceptions. How is it an unfair reading to draw from that that you consider "not attempting to change perceptions" as a negative? You're saying you see trying to change perceptions as a positive but would like to see an athlete not do that?