OT - First female NBA referee Violet Palmer announces she is gay

[PtldPlatypus]

How does that make Sam hypocritical? At best, you're arguing that the media (or whomever you mean as the public) is being hypocritical.

Fair point. I'm assuming that Michael Sam would also have had a problem with Dungy saying what he said. I could be wrong.

You may want to re-read what I wrote. I never accused you of bigotry or being in favor of it.

If I believed that trying to change prejudice is bad, then it would follow that I believe the prejudice itself is acceptable.

I said that you see "trying to change perceptions" as a failing, which seems reasonable from this:

To rephrase, "what I'm waiting for" is the gay athlete who is comfortable enough with his homosexuality to feel neither the need to hide reality nor attempt to change perception, but to simply be an athlete who happens insignificantly to be gay, rather than be, significantly, a gay athlete.

You said you're waiting for someone who's comfortable enough in their homosexuality to not attempt to change perceptions. How is it an unfair reading to draw from that that you consider "attempting to change perceptions" as a negative? You're saying you see trying to change perceptions as a positive but would like to see an athlete not do that?

It's a fine line, but what I'm saying is that I have yet to see a (male) gay athlete who is simply willing to be openly gay without making a public spectacle of it (there have been many on the female side, and I find that dichotomy fascinating as well). I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with someone attempting to change public perception, but it would also be nice to see a gay athlete who isn't trying to change things, but is OK with simply being gay.

 

[Minstrel]

If I believed that trying to change prejudice is bad, then it would follow that I believe the prejudice itself is acceptable.

Well, to clarify, I don't believe you're in favor of bigotry based on my interactions with you. That wasn't meant to be an implication on my part.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Well, to clarify, I don't believe you're in favor of bigotry based on my interactions with you. That wasn't meant to be an implication on my part.

Much appreciated. I apologize if my inference was unreasonable.

BTW, I enjoyed this little exchange. It's nice when reasonable people can discuss divergent viewpoints without resorting to insults.

 

[Minstrel]

Much appreciated. I apologize if my inference was unreasonable.

BTW, I enjoyed this little exchange. It's nice when reasonable people can discuss divergent viewpoints without resorting to insults.

I agree!

 

[rasheedfan2005]

Much appreciated. I apologize if my inference was unreasonable.

BTW, I enjoyed this little exchange. It's nice when reasonable people can discuss divergent viewpoints without resorting to insults.

Your mother smells of elderberries

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Your mother smells of elderberries

Would you prefer she smell of incontinence?

 

[SlyPokerDog]

I'm putting this thread in the closet that is known as the off topic section.

 

[rasheedfan2005]

I'm putting this thread in the closet that is known as the off topic section.

Nicely done

 

[Minstrel]

I'm putting this thread in the closet that is known as the off topic section.

I don't understand why people insist on posting threads in the wrong forum!

 

[PtldPlatypus]

I'm putting this thread in the closet that is known as the off topic section.

This thread is openly OT and proud, whether you like it or not.

 

[NewsSource]

This thread is openly OT and proud, whether you like it or not.

It tried to hide itself by blending in on the sports board until Sly outed it, and then forced it to change its home.

 

[MARIS61]

Personally, I think you're shifting the burden oddly. I would say, I'm waiting for the society that considers the distinction between gay and straight to be insignificant rather than implying that the person living in the discriminatory society, and operates based on that fact, is at fault.

That occurred across most of America several decades ago. You really don't get out much do you?

 

[crandc]

Sure there is no homophobia anywhere any more.

Two miscellaneous points: Had Michael Sam not come out, then been drafted 4th round and kissed his boyfriend, he would have been roasted alive by sports media for hiding the fact that he was gay, letting teams think he was an "ordinary" (i.e., straight) guy.

Second miscellaneous point: Suppose instead of "coming out" formally, Player X was just seen everywhere with the same handsome young man, the young man was at all games, was living in his house; how long would it take before someone said "Dude, is he your boyfriend?"

I'd love to see gay athletes at team gatherings, when a straight teammate says hey guys, this is my girlfriend Diane, respond with this is my boyfriend Duane. Until that starts happening you can't say no one has a problem. It's why gays and lesbians get really good at referring to significant other without using pronouns.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

Two miscellaneous points: Had Michael Sam not come out, then been drafted 4th round and kissed his boyfriend, he would have been roasted alive by sports media for hiding the fact that he was gay, letting teams think he was an "ordinary" (i.e., straight) guy.

A. I doubt it.
B. If that happened, it would reflect poorly on any sports media personality who criticized him
C. I seriously doubt the PC police would allow such criticism to slide.

Second miscellaneous point: Suppose instead of "coming out" formally, Player X was just seen everywhere with the same handsome young man, the young man was at all games, was living in his house; how long would it take before someone said "Dude, is he your boyfriend?"

Yeah, and...? Are you suggesting that would be a problem?

I'd love to see gay athletes at team gatherings, when a straight teammate says hey guys, this is my girlfriend Diane, respond with this is my boyfriend Duane. Until that starts happening you can't say no one has a problem. It's why gays and lesbians get really good at referring to significant other without using pronouns.

Of course people still have problems with it. Maris is living in a dream world if he thinks people don't. However, I'm of the opinion that if people have a problem with me being who I am, the problem is theirs, not mine. But if I edit who I am because of what people may think/say, then the problem is mine, not theirs.

 

[NewsSource]

Had Michael Sam not come out, then been drafted 4th round and kissed his boyfriend

Or, how about if he didn't come out, and wasn't drafted at all? Because that's just as likely, based on how poorly he did at the NFL Combine and at his pro day.

 

[MARIS61]

Two miscellaneous points: Had Michael Sam not come out, then been drafted 4th round and kissed his boyfriend, he would have been roasted alive by sports media for hiding the fact that he was gay, letting teams think he was an "ordinary" (i.e., straight) guy.

That's ridiculous.

Second miscellaneous point: Suppose instead of "coming out" formally, Player X was just seen everywhere with the same handsome young man, the young man was at all games, was living in his house; how long would it take before someone said "Dude, is he your boyfriend?".

Same as if it was a heterosexual couple? Can't see your point here.

I'd love to see gay athletes at team gatherings, when a straight teammate says hey guys, this is my girlfriend Diane, respond with this is my boyfriend Duane. Until that starts happening you can't say no one has a problem. It's why gays and lesbians get really good at referring to significant other without using pronouns.

You're right about that. Until gays stop playing the victim role they will continue to be victims, at least in their own minds. We are all self-creations in the end.