OT: Greatest Power Forward of All-Time?

[magnifier661]

Talking about big men; what about Hakeem?! That dude was amazing!!! Didn't he get like 4 quadruple doubles?

 

[VanillaGorilla]

Statistically he's better. Duncan has more rings though. That is a big qualifier for greatness for me.

I disagree

http://bkref.com/tiny/9J412

Edit:

They're really similar, but I'd give the edge, on paper, to Duncan. Duncan also gets the edge with the rings. No contest.

 

[VanillaGorilla]

Barkley didn't play defense.

I hope PtldPlatypus is OK with being alone in the opinion that defense doesn't matter at all when discussion who the best power forward was.

 

[magnifier661]

I disagree

http://bkref.com/tiny/9J412

Edit:

They're really similar, but I'd give the edge, on paper, to Duncan. Duncan also gets the edge with the rings. No contest.

I stand corrected

 

[Denny Crane]

Shaq was dominate, but id still take duncan every day. David robinson was my favorite player growing up and no way in hell is he as good as timmy d.

Hakeem? Maybe.

Look at Shaq's 1990-2000 season stats. Realize he had over 10 years of stats very close. 29.7 points, 13.6 rebounds, 3 blocks, 3.8 assists. He shot .574, too.

 

[Denny Crane]

I disagree

http://bkref.com/tiny/9J412

Edit:

They're really similar, but I'd give the edge, on paper, to Duncan. Duncan also gets the edge with the rings. No contest.

Garnett played several years on the Celtics with two other hall of famers. He sacrificed stats for wins.

Garnett averaged 13+ RPG three times. Duncan never did it.

Duncan's career best APG was 3.9. Garnett averaged 4+ ten times, 5+ five times.

Duncan never averaged a steal per game. Garnett averaged 1.5+ five times.

Garnett started at SF his first few seasons. He could dribble better, pass better, defend any position better, etc.

Garnett has also played 6,000+ more minutes over his career.

 

[Wizard Mentor]

It's somewhat humorous that some are talking about Duncan and stats at the same time. He's the ultimate team guy who never cared about stats and still doesn't. He only cares about winning. He could have averaged 35 a game if he really wanted to.

 

[JfizzleBlazer]

Look at Shaq's 1990-2000 season stats. Realize he had over 10 years of stats very close. 29.7 points, 13.6 rebounds, 3 blocks, 3.8 assists. He shot .574, too.

Shaquille was not as good as Duncan on defense. And you forgot to mention that Shaq has a career 52.7% FT rate. Not to mention, Shaq won 4 titles like Duncan, but Shaq had Dwayne Wade and Kobe Bryant on his team whenever he won titles. Who did Duncan have? He was by far the best player on his teams. Duncan had a broken down David robinson in 2003 and a pretty good, not nearly as good as he used to be DRob in 1999.

 

[VanillaGorilla]

It's somewhat humorous that some are talking about Duncan and stats at the same time. He's the ultimate team guy who never cared about stats and still doesn't. He only cares about winning. He could have averaged 35 a game if he really wanted to.

Exactly my point. He's at least equal with Garnett in stats, plus Duncan has sacrificed statistics for his whole career.

 

[VanillaGorilla]

Garnett played several years on the Celtics with two other hall of famers. He sacrificed stats for wins.

Garnett averaged 13+ RPG three times. Duncan never did it.

Duncan's career best APG was 3.9. Garnett averaged 4+ ten times, 5+ five times.

Duncan never averaged a steal per game. Garnett averaged 1.5+ five times.

Garnett started at SF his first few seasons. He could dribble better, pass better, defend any position better, etc.

Garnett has also played 6,000+ more minutes over his career.

Duncan plays with two hall of famers right now and also played with a guy named David. When did Garnett have to sacrifice his stats playing with a hall of fame big man?

Garnett has averaged 1 minute more per game through their careers. There probably wouldn't even be a difference if Pop wasn't Duncan's coach.

 

[STOMP]

He's certainly not better than Kareem or Wilt or several other of the greatest C's.

Kareem's best days were when I was an infant and so of course I've no recollection of Wilt. Even though I'm sure that Russell, Robertson, Wilt, etc were greats, I'm not going to look at stats and try to rank them with guys I've seen. If the question is what I think "NBA greatness" implies (primarily personal dominance & winning), Tim Duncan is easily one of the very best. Of all Bigs I've seen, I'd put only Hakeem higher with Shaq & Kareem on a more or less equal level.

STOMP

 

[Denny Crane]

Kareem's best days were when I was an infant and so of course I've no recollection of Wilt. Even though I'm sure that Russell, Robertson, Wilt, etc were greats, I'm not going to look at stats and try to rank them with guys I've seen. If the question is what I think "NBA greatness" implies (primarily personal dominance & winning), Tim Duncan is easily one of the very best. Of all Bigs I've seen, I'd put only Hakeem higher with Shaq & Kareem on a more or less equal level.

STOMP

I saw Kareem play (I remember him in college, and even as a highly touted HSer). His stats do him justice. He so dominated in college that they banned dunking. I remember Bill Walton in college dropping the ball through the basket from above when he could have dunked (but it was illegal).

The only thing is he would never stand up straight next to a tape measure. He's listed at 7'2", but they said back then he was a bit taller.

His shot was unstoppable - the sky hook. He was a threat to lead the league in scoring every year. He was a monster rebounder, and he had great hands and passing ability. Jerry West frequently said Kareem was one of the best dribbling big men he ever saw.

The bucks were an expansion team, drafted him in its second season. They won the championship in Kareem's second season.

The knock on him was that he didn't hustle all the time, like back to defend on fast breaks. I think they made a joke about it in one of the Airplane movies (he had a cameo).

I think he's arguably the 3rd best player in history, behind Wilt and Jordan. If he isn't, he's in the discussion.

 

[jlprk]

If you want to see the dominant Jabbar, watch him as a Buck, not a Laker. The Lakers lay claim to him and Chamberlain, but the Lakers were late to the game on both.

 

[PtldPlatypus]

I hope PtldPlatypus is OK with being alone in the opinion that defense doesn't matter at all when discussion who the best power forward was.

Not quite what I was saying, but I'm OK with you thinking that it was.

 

[huevonkiller]

Tim Duncan, because he leads slightly more advanced metrics than KG, IIRC.

Not because of the Rings, Kobe has more rings and is inferior. It is about what can be ascertained statistically.

 

[MickZagger]

Duncan fairly easily.

 

[PapaG]

I saw Kareem play (I remember him in college, and even as a highly touted HSer). His stats do him justice. He so dominated in college that they banned dunking. I remember Bill Walton in college dropping the ball through the basket from above when he could have dunked (but it was illegal).

The only thing is he would never stand up straight next to a tape measure. He's listed at 7'2", but they said back then he was a bit taller.

His shot was unstoppable - the sky hook. He was a threat to lead the league in scoring every year. He was a monster rebounder, and he had great hands and passing ability. Jerry West frequently said Kareem was one of the best dribbling big men he ever saw.

The bucks were an expansion team, drafted him in its second season. They won the championship in Kareem's second season.

The knock on him was that he didn't hustle all the time, like back to defend on fast breaks. I think they made a joke about it in one of the Airplane movies (he had a cameo).

I think he's arguably the 3rd best player in history, behind Wilt and Jordan. If he isn't, he's in the discussion.

I agree in that Wilt was the greatest pure player ever. I wish I could have watched him in his prime. He played with much lesser teammates than Russell until he got to the Lakers late in his career.

 

[Denny Crane]

I agree in that Wilt was the greatest pure player ever. I wish I could have watched him in his prime. He played with much lesser teammates than Russell until he got to the Lakers late in his career.

Wilt would shoot free throws from about 3 feet behind the FT line and over to one side. He was terrible at free throws.

 

[DaLincolnJones]

Stockton to Malone