OT: Kobe vs Jordan?

[Wheels]

Kobe has choked so many times,it's ridiculous. Highlights:

Kobe airballing 4 shots at the end of a must win game against the Jazz in 97.

Kobe refusing to shot in the second half against the Suns in Game 7 in 2006. Jordan NEVER did that.

Kobe GAGGING on the biggest game of his career at the time- Game 6 in Boston in the NBA Finals. Kobe scored 22 pts on 7 of 21 shooting and he let his team lose by 39 points. Jordan never did that.

As for LeBron, he led his team to the NBA Finals in his 4th year out of high school with no other All Star on his team When Kobe had no other All Star on his team (see 2005), he didn't even make the playoffs.

So 4 titles to 3 choking examples? Damn it must be tough to be a Lakers Fan.

 

[huevonkiller]

embarrasses me to be a Blazer fan sometimes.

I agree, this is taken too far.

 

[KingSpeed]

I can't believe this thread has gone on for 4 pages. Holy shit.

First, Kobe Bryant isn't better than Michael Jordan. I think people often overrate Jordan and his abilities, but no, Kobe isn't better or on the same level. Though I will admit Kobe one fire is probably hotter than just about anyone in the league ever, but that's not enough to say his overall body of work is better than Jordan's. No matter the era, i'm one of the few who think stats don't tell the whole story, and though Kobe will probably be a top 10 (MAYBE a top 5 player, but that'll be difficult) player ever, I just don't believe he'll catch up, much less surpass Jordan.

And secondly, KingSpeed, if you feel so strongly about Kobe not being better, and as "so sure it's not even close" then why the hell would you make a thread about it? It's obvious: to get some attention and anger some Kobe Bryant fans. You should be above this, what are you, 10? C'mon bro.

Whether or not Kobe is better than Jordan is a conversation out there in the media. I decided to take that conversation to this message board to get other people's thoughts. Isn't that was this board is for?

Speaking of age, how old were the Kobe supporters back when Jordan was in his prime? I don't blame them for their confusion if they weren't old enough to remember the games.

 

[KingSpeed]

I'm not sure I would go that far, I'm sure it was an impressive series. Drexler had more playoff win shares in that title run.
.

Did you watch the series? If you didn't watch the series, then you have no idea what you're talking about. None. I saw it. It was incredible. Complete domination. He scored at will with his dream shake. It was the best I've seen any player play in a single playoff series and I saw all of the Jordan series. Jordan was amazing in the 1993 series vs the Suns and the 1997 series vs the Jazz. It's also debatable that Wade's series vs the Mavs in 2006 was one of the top 3 NBA Finals performances ever.

 

[huevonkiller]

Did you watch the series? If you didn't watch the series, then you have no idea what you're talking about. None. I saw it. It was incredible. Complete domination. He scored at will with his dream shake. It was the best I've seen any player play in a single playoff series and I saw all of the Jordan series. Jordan was amazing in the 1993 series vs the Suns and the 1997 series vs the Jazz. It's also debatable that Wade's series vs the Mavs in 2006 was one of the top 3 NBA Finals performances ever.

I don't think one should judge performance on just subjective qualities.

That's exactly what you're criticizing Kobe fans for.

 

[Sex Panther]

I don't think one should judge performance on just subjective qualities.

That's exactly what you're criticizing Kobe fans for.

ding ding ding

 

[blazerboy30]

Before putting Kobe anywhere near the discussion of GOAT, it should be clear that Kobe is even the best player in the league, at any point in his career. It isn't clear. So, IMO, the debate ends there.

I don't think Kobe has ever been the most dominant player in the league during his career (Shaq, Lebron), how could he even be considered for GOAT?

 

[KingSpeed]

ding ding ding

Watch the games and then get back to me.

 

[Sex Panther]

Before putting Kobe anywhere near the discussion of GOAT, it should be clear that Kobe is even the best player in the league, at any point in his career. It isn't clear. So, IMO, the debate ends there.

I don't think Kobe has ever been the most dominant player in the league during his career (Shaq, Lebron), how could he even be considered for GOAT?

I disagree. There was probably a a 2-3 year span where he was the most dominant player, but yeah, I agree with everything else you said. I'd probably put him at 10-11 on the GOAT list right now, and he'll end off in the top 10 for sure, MAYBE top 5 (but I doubt it).

By the way, Jordan never lost in the Finals.

Trying not to sound like a Kobe hater (i'm a so-so onlooker, than a "fan"), I will say that the arguement 'Jordan never lost in the finals' is rather dubious. All that shows me is that Jordan didn't make the finals those other years.

 

[44Thrilla]

Bill Russell > both

 

[Wheels]

>>>>Russell

 

[Denny Crane]

I'm not so sure Kobe is the 5th best Laker of all time, let alone 5th best player in history.

Kareem, Magic, West, Baylor, Wilt and Shaq make 6 I'd say were better, off the top of my head.

 

[Minstrel]

I'm not so sure Kobe is the 5th best Laker of all time, let alone 5th best player in history.

Kareem, Magic, West, Baylor, Wilt and Shaq make 6 I'd say were better, off the top of my head.

I'd put at least Abdul-Jabbar, Magic and Shaq ahead of Kobe. I'd say that he was in the same tier as West and Baylor. A lot of people forget or are unaware how dominant Baylor was in his prime.

 

[Denny Crane]

I'd put at least Abdul-Jabbar, Magic and Shaq ahead of Kobe. I'd say that he was in the same tier as West and Baylor. A lot of people forget or are unaware how dominant Baylor was in his prime.

How can you not include Wilt? If Jordan isn't the GOAT, then Wilt is.

West was all nba defensive 1st team up until he retired, and put up Jordan like numbers for his career.

Baylor was Dr. J decades before Dr. J was a pro, 10 time all nba 1st team.

 

[Sex Panther]

I'm not so sure Kobe is the 5th best Laker of all time, let alone 5th best player in history.

Kareem, Magic, West, Baylor, Wilt and Shaq make 6 I'd say were better, off the top of my head.

Are you saying their careers as a Laker? If so, i'd only put Magic and maybe Kareem ahead of Kobe. Kobe imo is probably a notch above Shaq, Baylor and West.

 

[Denny Crane]

Are you saying their careers as a Laker? If so, i'd only put Magic and maybe Kareem ahead of Kobe. Kobe imo is probably a notch above Shaq, Baylor and West.

Not careers as lakers, just lakers.

 

[Sex Panther]

Not careers as lakers, just lakers.

Oh well even then i'd probably only put Wilt, Kareem and Magic ahead and Shaq at the same level. West and Baylor aren't far behind though.

Some of these guys who say Kobe is easily top 10 are ridiculous. He's at the top 10-15 range at this point.

 

[Denny Crane]

Oh well even then i'd probably only put Wilt, Kareem and Magic ahead and Shaq at the same level. West and Baylor aren't far behind though.

Some of these guys who say Kobe is easily top 10 are ridiculous. He's at the top 10-15 range at this point.

There are a few players I think are at Kobe's level who were never blessed with an even better player on the team. Dominique Wilkins comes to mind.

 

[huevonkiller]

There are a few players I think are at Kobe's level who were never blessed with an even better player on the team. Dominique Wilkins comes to mind.

No. You're taking it too far as well.

 

[kobe23]

Yeah... and jordan didn't win his 6 rings with help from his teammates (pippen/kukoc/kerr/rodman) either.

 

[CelticKing]

Yeah... and jordan didn't win his 6 rings with help from his teammates (pippen/kukoc/kerr/rodman) either.

Jordan had Pippen who you can argue is as good as Gasol talent wise, but Jordan never had a Shaq, a top 5 center of all time, who destroyed defenses during his 3 championships. So basically Jordan did a whole lot more with less talent around him.

 

[Tortimer]

Kobe isn't even close to Jordon. I also think some of you are wrong about how good West was.

 

[Minstrel]

How can you not include Wilt? If Jordan isn't the GOAT, then Wilt is.

Accident. I meant to include him. As I said earlier in the thread, I consider Jordan, Chamberlain and Robertson to be the three best players ever.

 

[Minstrel]

Jordan had Pippen who you can argue is as good as Gasol talent wise

Pippen was a significantly better player than Gasol. He definitely wasn't Shaq, but he was one of the best players of his generation. Likely the greatest perimeter defender ever and one of the best all-around players ever.

 

[Wheels]

Pippen was a significantly better player than Gasol. He definitely wasn't Shaq, but he was one of the best players of his generation. Likely the greatest perimeter defender ever and one of the best all-around players ever.

thank you for saying that.. I'm glad I scrolled down before I corrected.

 

[Sex Panther]

Jordan had Pippen who you can argue is as good as Gasol talent wise, but Jordan never had a Shaq, a top 5 center of all time, who destroyed defenses during his 3 championships. So basically Jordan did a whole lot more with less talent around him.

Whole lot more with less talent?

Rodman was arguably the greatest rebounder ever who was an excellent defender. Jordan also had a fantastic supporting cast. No team was better at knowing their roles.

 

[huevonkiller]

Horace Grant was also a solid part of that run.

 

[44Thrilla]

When you start putting Rodman and Grant in the same category as Shaq, then it's time to give up your argument.

 

[Denny Crane]

Kobe isn't even close to Jordon. I also think some of you are wrong about how good West was.

Exactly.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

Right now he’s [Kobe] the best player in basketball,” Gentry said. “And it’s not even close.”