OT: New NBA After These Finals

[BGrantFan]

Clutching, grabbing, flailing, flopping ... NateBall is tailor made for this with a healthy line-up.

I do admit it is almost unwatchable, though, but if that's what it takes for a title, sign me up!

May as well bring on Jeff Van Gundy right now! WOO HOO!

 

[THE HCP]

Hey, it's worked for the Spurs in the past 10 years.

 

[KingSpeed]

It's true. Nate and our roster with our four bigs healthy is a championship team.

 

[LittleAlex]

It's true. Nate and our roster with our four bigs healthy is a championship team.

Nope, not even close.

Both teams have a great deal of ball movement and they tend not to clear out constantly.

Portland, on the other hand, doesn't have a ton of ball movement and they do clear out constantly.

 

[craigehlo]

Both teams have a great deal of ball movement and they tend not to clear out constantly.

I have to agree. Nateball looks nothing like we are seeing in the Finals except when one of the teams has to hoist up a bad shot against the clock occasionally. Don't get me started on how much better these two teams play help defense either.

 

[hasoos]

Nope, not even close.

Both teams have a great deal of ball movement and they tend not to clear out constantly.

Portland, on the other hand, doesn't have a ton of ball movement and they do clear out constantly.

Exactamundo. Both of these teams are playing elite level defense right now, and play physical at both ends. Portland is lucky to get one physical game out of every 5.

 

[Minstrel]

Clutching, grabbing, flailing, flopping ...

New? It started with the Pistons of the late-80s and was taken to a whole other level by Pat Riley when he was coaching the Knicks. As he put it, "If you foul on every possession, the refs can't call them all." He ushered in the era of defensive basketball where contact was the baseline and it had to be really egregious to be a foul.

The NBA has tried to combat it with the no-handcheck rules, but it's just made officiating inconsistent rather than making the game less physical. It does make a great guard/wing more valuable than, perhaps, any other time in NBA history.

 

[hasoos]

What's crazy is they have actually still cut down on the contact. Back in the Bad Boy days, if their opponent got into the 80's they were fortunate. A lot of folks look at the numbers Kobe is putting up and think that's great. Jordan used to do that when they allowed perimeter contact, and they allowed you to put a hand on your opponent. Now they have it easy.

 

[huevonkiller]

What's crazy is they have actually still cut down on the contact. Back in the Bad Boy days, if their opponent got into the 80's they were fortunate. A lot of folks look at the numbers Kobe is putting up and think that's great. Jordan used to do that when they allowed perimeter contact, and they allowed you to put a hand on your opponent. Now they have it easy.

Not sure this holds up.

Teams in the 2000's have had better defensive ratings. The league was played faster back in the 80's/early 90's.

 

[hasoos]

Not sure this holds up.

Teams in the 2000's have had better defensive ratings. The league was played quicker back in the 80's/early 90's.

What defensive ratings are you talking about? Because as a person who watched the game during all those time periods, I don't find today's defenses even close to the defense's that existed then. I also believe that any statistical comparison would be hard to make due to rule changes. Does it make sense to you that it is easier or harder to score if somebody can contact you and put their hand on you on the perimeter? Do you even believe that for one second that it doesn't?

 

[huevonkiller]

What defensive ratings are you talking about? Because as a person who watched the game during all those time periods, I don't find today's defenses even close to the defense's that existed then. I also believe that any statistical comparison would be hard to make due to rule changes. Does it make sense to you that it is easier or harder to score if somebody can contact you and put their hand on you on the perimeter? Do you even believe that for one second that it doesn't?

Well if reality says something else, that's all that really matters. It doesn't matter what people remember (no offense) because I will just use the facts. You can't say they kept them under 80 points more often because it isn't true. This is rather simple to prove.

Next free throw draw rates are relatively the same, or lower now. 1 Ft per 2.8 Field Goal attempts. You're not taking into account various factors, such as zone. Teams draw FTs less often now than in the Pistons era.

 

[BrianFromWA]

What's crazy is they have actually still cut down on the contact. Back in the Bad Boy days, if their opponent got into the 80's they were fortunate

1989 "Bad Boy" Finals
109-97
108-105
114-110
105-97
Swept the L*kers, giving up and average of 102 ppg.

1990 Bad Bay Finals
105-99
106-105
121-106
112-109
92-90
4-1 over the Blazers, giving up 102 ppg.
Do these stats count?

 

[Minstrel]

What defensive ratings are you talking about? Because as a person who watched the game during all those time periods, I don't find today's defenses even close to the defense's that existed then. I also believe that any statistical comparison would be hard to make due to rule changes. Does it make sense to you that it is easier or harder to score if somebody can contact you and put their hand on you on the perimeter? Do you even believe that for one second that it doesn't?

Obviously hand-checking made things harder. On the other hand, a lot of other contact was not allowed in the '80s. I watched plenty of '80s basketball...interior defense was far less tough and physical. And that's not just affecting big men...a perimeter player who got past his man could penetrate all the way to the rim and finish without a lot of resistance. Nowadays, a perimeter player who gets into the paint can expect to be knocked to the floor (and may or may not get a foul call, since rougher player is now the norm). The "Jordan Rules" that the Pistons made famous at the end of the '80s was a new thing that wasn't done by other teams at the time. Starting in the '90s, more and more teams began using the "Jordan Rules" all the time. And now every team does.

So, I definitely don't agree that defense was tougher in the '80s. Less contact was allowed, even counting in hand-checking, and that allowed for a more wide open offensive game. I actually preferred that style of basketball, but defenses are tougher now because more is allowed and defensive schemes take advantage of that.

 

[OddEnormous]

NateBall is tailor made for this with a healthy line-up.

:shakeshead: