OT: Paul Shirley is a dick

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Natebishop3 said:
The problem with donating money is that you have no idea where it's going after you've donated it. Organizations like the Red Cross have complete control over the money once it is in their hands. I remember after 9/11 there was a huge uproar because people donated money to the Red Cross thinking that it would go directly to the families of the victims. It doesn't. The Red Cross is always quick to ask for donations after a major disaster (9/11, Katrina, Haiti) but that money isn't always used for what you think. If I remember correctly the Red Cross eventually gave the money to the families of 9/11, but they did so begrudgingly.
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The Red Cross actually spent like half the money that was donated. They kept the rest in savings for the next time they might need it.

But certainly the people who donated expected the money to go to help people in NYC after 9/11.
 
LittleAlex said:
It might just be possible that Haiti would be far better prepared for such a natural disaster if we hadn't destroyed much of their infrastructure and deposed their elected leader.
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That is not relevant to me.

Haiti was a shit hole before the earthquake in part because the US made it a shit hole.
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That's nonsense. Again, though: not relevant.

THAT is why we need to be more involved in Haiti's recovery.
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I don't agree with your assertion, but even if it were: I don't care.

It's just not a case of "They just didn't do enough to help themselves so fuck them.". The US prevented them from even having a chance to do enough.
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No. The US didn't cause the hurricanes or the earthquake. It did not single out Haiti and drive them into the poorest country in the hemisphere. It did not force them to have nine million+ inhabitants.

Your argument is not only weak, but it's not the reason that we're donating money. No one I know (whether your argument is accurate or not) is donating money due to some sort of guilt over the country's plight due to US interventionalism.

Ed O.
 
deception said:
how exactly could a haitian migrant who probably doesnt speak english and certainly cant read or write english take advantage of the opportunities in miami? u do realize they need english language training, maybe some vocational training as well just to get job ready. plus the govt needs to help them subsist in this adjustment phase for them to get to the position where they can "take advantage of the many opportunities" u have over there.
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Cubans have done it just fine.
 
Denny Crane said:
Cubans have done it just fine.
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cubans have one of the highest literacy rates in the world. plus, there is a huge network of cuban exiles in florida that they can tap into for employment as well as charities designed to help assimilate cubans.
 
deception said:
cubans have one of the highest literacy rates in the world. plus, there is a huge network of cuban exiles in florida that they can tap into for employment as well as charities designed to help assimilate cubans.
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You just described how immigrants make it here. It worked for Vietnamese, Koreans, Cubans, Mormons, the Irish, etc.
 
A lot of dishonest people are going to become very, very wealthy because of this earthquake.
 
BlazerWookee said:
A lot of dishonest people are going to become very, very wealthy because of this earthquake.
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That's nothing new. Where do you think Bank of America came from? They were the only bank that was open immediately after the San Francisco quake in 1906. Of course, they weren't called Bank of America back then.
 
Mormons were immigrants? From upstate New York, maybe. :)
 
Ed O said:
Maybe the people who give money will die a terrible death because they will send money that will allow a starving child to eat, grow up, and then die from AIDS after passing it on to four of her kids.

Or maybe she will grow up and have those four kids who have to live on the dollar a day she makes. They will be nearly starving every day, and one day another earthquake will hit and they will lose their mother and a limb or two.

Self-righteousness doesn't mean one is right.

Ed O.
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And passive genocide of a nation's people simply because they are poor and diseased will never pass for anything other than fear and greed.

You yourself could have been bitten by a rabid bat at the age of 9 at the summer camp your parents sent you to, and died an excruciatingly painful death.

Guess that possibility makes your parents pretty self-righteous for having you.
 
Denny Crane said:
You just described how immigrants make it here. It worked for Vietnamese, Koreans, Cubans, Mormons, the Irish, etc.
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I know 2 Asians who immigrated. This is how THEY made it.

The Vietnamese guy is a landlord with about a dozen rentals in SE Portland. He was given, not loaned the first 2 rentals free and clear through a Federal program back in 1977. So much for the American Dream. My government would never give me a couple rentals to start my business.

The other was adopted out of a Korean orphanage when he was young, raised by a religious family in Hillsboro, and grew up to become a dangerously psychotic swindler who has destoyed the lives of many good people. He preys on the uneducated, the poor, the weak, the defenseless. I have seen him convince people he's Jesus, and I've seen him convince himself he's the devil. He's quite wealthy, but barely escaped Federal prison for loan fraud and conspiracy in 2003. He's out there right now stealing from someone.
 
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Natebishop3 said:
The problem with donating money is that you have no idea where it's going after you've donated it. Organizations like the Red Cross have complete control over the money once it is in their hands. I remember after 9/11 there was a huge uproar because people donated money to the Red Cross thinking that it would go directly to the families of the victims. It doesn't. The Red Cross is always quick to ask for donations after a major disaster (9/11, Katrina, Haiti) but that money isn't always used for what you think. If I remember correctly the Red Cross eventually gave the money to the families of 9/11, but they did so begrudgingly.
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That's why when I give, I know it goes directly for aid. I select carefully.
 
MARIS61 said:
I know 2 Asians who immigrated. This is how THEY made it.

The Vietnamese guy is a landlord with about a dozen rentals in SE Portland. He was given, not loaned the first 2 rentals free and clear through a Federal program back in 1977. So much for the American Dream. My government would never give me a couple rentals to start my business.

The other was adopted out of a Korean orphanage when he was young, raised by a religious family in Hillsboro, and grew up to become a dangerously psychotic swindler who has destoyed the lives of many good people. He preys on the uneducated, the poor, the weak, the defenseless. I have seen him convince people he's Jesus, and I've seen him convince himself he's the devil. He's quite wealthy, but barely escaped Federal prison for loan fraud and conspiracy in 2003. He's out there right now stealing from someone.
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As to the first example, sure they do. I have an attorney friend who got a rat infested apartment building given to him off a federal grant because he promised to use it for senior housing. Then, he got another free federal grant to completely renovate it. He made a lot of money on the project and it was all free.

As to the second example, I think that guy posts around here somewhere.
 
I personally never donate money to other lands.

I've got plenty of neighbors in need right here in my own country.
 
A couple of months after 9-11, I read that almost every family had gotten 2.6 or 2.8 or something million dollars from all sources. Then a couple more months and I read that the Red Cross was reluctant to hand out even more money to them. There were many people without a cent who needed help. But the selfish New Yorkers, whose dead relatives had all been high-paid bureaucrats in a prestige skyscraper, threatened to sue, so they each got hundreds of thousands more.

When the Red Cross had collected the money, they hadn't known the relatives would become rich off of the event. The Red Cross was right to try to reallocate the money to people who actually needed it, like flood victims, people dying from cancer, etc.

Separate subject: The US government favors immigrants from Cuba and Vietnam, to turn them into highly visible successes, for propaganda purposes. Immigrants from other countries are turned back or if let in, don't qualify for the same programs. So it's not a level playing field to hold Haitians to the same expectations.
 
Denny Crane said:
You just described how immigrants make it here. It worked for Vietnamese, Koreans, Cubans, Mormons, the Irish, etc.
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no disrespect to haitians but comparing cubans to haitians is like comparing hakeem to greg oden. sure both are big, but hakeem has a better natural skill set (i.e. his foot work) and he hasnt been hindered by injuries like oden has. cubans coming today are ripe for takeoff- they are literate, they speak spanish- which is tacitly the second official language of america, and many have a family in the united states prior to arrival. haitians have none of that.

also, to suggest that none of the groups mentioned took advantage of welfare programs provided by the state is preposterous. as an example- vietnamese boat people were maybe the biggest benefactors of govt assistance as well as regular folk altruism in the 20th century of any immigrant group in both the united states and here in canada.
 
MARIS61 said:
I know 2 Asians who immigrated. This is how THEY made it.

The Vietnamese guy is a landlord with about a dozen rentals in SE Portland. He was given, not loaned the first 2 rentals free and clear through a Federal program back in 1977. So much for the American Dream. My government would never give me a couple rentals to start my business.

The other was adopted out of a Korean orphanage when he was young, raised by a religious family in Hillsboro, and grew up to become a dangerously psychotic swindler who has destoyed the lives of many good people. He preys on the uneducated, the poor, the weak, the defenseless. I have seen him convince people he's Jesus, and I've seen him convince himself he's the devil. He's quite wealthy, but barely escaped Federal prison for loan fraud and conspiracy in 2003. He's out there right now stealing from someone.
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ok i missed this comment in my reply to crane. i agree with the essence of what crane said- jewish ingenuity and asian work ethic is the reason why they excel, not some handout. and your comment about the korean huckster is downright slanderous- since he's not here to defend himself.
 
Ed O said:
Maybe the people who give money will die a terrible death because they will send money that will allow a starving child to eat, grow up, and then die from AIDS after passing it on to four of her kids.

Or maybe she will grow up and have those four kids who have to live on the dollar a day she makes. They will be nearly starving every day, and one day another earthquake will hit and they will lose their mother and a limb or two.

Self-righteousness doesn't mean one is right.

Ed O.
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Why not just nuke Haiti and put everyone on that retched little shithole out of their aids infested, poverty stricken excuses for lives?
 
That would be too kind. They deserve worse. How about a European invasion turning the natives into slavery so miserable that most jumped off of cliffs to kill themselves and their babies? Oh yeah, that's why they got replaced by the current black inhabitants.
 
I don't think it makes him a bad person. If a person doesn't want to donate HIS money, that is HIS right.

I don't agree with him, and if I was in his position I would do my best to help.

I think that LittleAlex had a good point when he said...

I big reason that Haiti is the way it is is due to US intervention (and by that I mean we invaded them multiple times in the last 100 years). I think Clinton was the last president to do so.

We put the douche bags who ran that country into the ground in power because they weren't communist. The people of Haiti voted for someone else to run the place and we kicked that dude out.

Paul Shirly has been all over the world. How did he not notice that in some countries the citizens have no say in what happens around them?

All in all, I feel it is more then fitting that the US help pay for Haiti's recovery.
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I think the U.S. has some responsibility here to help, and I've been very proud of my entire country. Shows how amazing Americans really are, IMO.
 
Wait, so we can't be the policemen of the world b/c it costs money, other powers are growing and our financial situation precludes it....but we have a responsibility to be the first responders, the relief workers, nurses and doctors for the rest of the world?

BTW...who do you think the "first responders" to this were? And to the 2004 tsunami? The US Navy and Marine Corps.
 
BTW...who do you think the "first responders" to this were? And to the 2004 tsunami? The US Navy and Marine Corps.
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Well I heard that China got there a few hours before.

but we have a responsibility to be the first responders, the relief workers, nurses and doctors for the rest of the world?
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Every country has a responsibility to help others in need in the event of a disaster on this scale. Especially the developed countries, IMO.

I said the U.S. has some extra responsibility here because of our history with Haiti.
 
BrianFromWA said:
Wait, so we can't be the policemen of the world b/c it costs money, other powers are growing and our financial situation precludes it....but we have a responsibility to be the first responders, the relief workers, nurses and doctors for the rest of the world?
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We can't be the policemen of the world because that's not our fucking job.

We have a responsibility to help those struck by disaster because we're not total douchebags.
 
paul shirley got canned from his blogging post with espn. good riddance dumbarse!!!

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Glob...ey-Haiti-comments-get-blogger-fired-from-ESPN

Now, apparently, sports broadcaster ESPN doesn't believe Shirley deserves a cent, at least not as a part-time freelance blogger for the network's website.

"The views [Shirley] expressed on another site of course do not at all reflect our company's views on the Haiti relief efforts. He will no longer contribute to ESPN," said the network in a short statement posted on its website.
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hoojacks said:
We can't be the policemen of the world because that's not our fucking job.

We have a responsibility to help those struck by disaster because we're not total douchebags.
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So wait, you're a total douchebag if you don't contribute time, money and energy to help people get on their feet from a natural disaster....but if you're helping people get out from under a corrupt regime, or from oppressive crime, or heaven forbid something like the Holocaust and takeover of Europe, then it's not our fucking job?

I guess we just have different priorities.
 
It just amazes me that when our economy is so shitty, that people are donating millions and millions of dollars. They don't know where the money is going but they just throw it away. I don't agree with what some of Paul Shirley said, but I mean what kind of effect would all this money we have donated had on our economy if everyone went out and spent the money instead? I mean it's a horrible thing that happened down there and we should definitely send people down there to help, but I mean shit I don't feel it is our responsibility to rebuild Haiti. We are in such deep shit economy-wise I just don't understand why we have to take charge down there.

I'm just sick of all of these tax increases when we are sending MILLIONS of dollars to a country that one day will get destroyed again...
 
ESPN canned him, eh? I guess there is no such thing as freedom of speech. God bless Paul Shirley. I'm not donating a cent to that cesspool either. Flame away.
 
BrianFromWA said:
So wait, you're a total douchebag if you don't contribute time, money and energy to help people get on their feet from a natural disaster....but if you're helping people get out from under a corrupt regime, or from oppressive crime, or heaven forbid something like the Holocaust and takeover of Europe, then it's not our fucking job?

I guess we just have different priorities.
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Please tell me you can tell the difference between invading Iraq... and World War Fucking Two.

No, it's not our job to invade sovereign nations, even if their dictator is corrupt and/or insane... or even a democratically elected communist.
 
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