OT: Rubio to stay in Spain for 2 years

[Idog1976]

I am not a Spanish expert, but doesn't El Periodico mean The Magazine? Are you going to trust what is found in a rag titled The Magazine.


If I read something in a paper called The Newspaper, I think I would assume it was bullshit.

That said, if Rubio doesn't play organized basketball at all for one year, he can re-enter the draft since Minni loses his rights.

sort of like if you saw news on a network owned by a group called Newscorp you would assume its garbage?

 

[Idog1976]

So what's Minny's backcourt now? Flynn/Telfair? That should be fun. Of course, it's good practice for the eventual Rubio/Flynn backcourt that Kahn SWEARS has been the plan all along.

If we do sign Hedo, I would re-visit that Rudy-and-change for Rubio idea. It would solve a numbers crunch for us and give us a Hedo replacement (because Hedo will be playing the part of PG for us a lot) in 2 years as he starts to crumble. Wonder if Minny will be more inclined to do it, or if Kahn will just be even more stubborn now.

(And even if we're not going to do it, we should ask Rudy if that's what he really wants, and see if that makes him decide things aren't so bad here...)

God that would be sweet.

Rudy Flynn back court seems pretty good. And you have Outlaw either starting 3 or backing up Love.

Blake, Rudy, Outlaw for rights to Rubio and something to make ends meet. I wonder if Minnie would go for that. Tell me KP is at least asking!

 

[LittleAlex]

Knowing full well that there was a risk he wouldn't come over. This shouldn't be a surprise to Minnesota, they knew it was a possibility.

Exactly. Why is Rubio being a dick? Minni made two terrible choices and now they pay the price. They should have just taken Flynn and Curry and let Rubio fall to GS. Or Rubio and Curry for that matter.

Their draft only makes sense if they trade one of the two and Rubio is attempting to force their hand and make the traded player himself.

Leverage, use it if you got it. And Rubio has plenty.

 

[Minstrel]

If we do sign Hedo, I would re-visit that Rudy-and-change for Rubio idea. It would solve a numbers crunch for us and give us a Hedo replacement (because Hedo will be playing the part of PG for us a lot) in 2 years as he starts to crumble.

That would be great. The problem, pre-draft, in trying to think of possible deals for Rubio was that the teams that seemed likely to get him, Memphis and OKC, would have had fully-stocked perimeter units, making players like Rudy, Bayless and Outlaw useless in trade.

But Minnesota needs shooting guards and small forwards...and Portland's got 'em! So maybe something can happen now that Minnesota seems likely to get nothing for that pick if they don't deal his rights.

 

[donkiez]

I dont think this means Rubio will definatly play in Spain next year, I think this is part of the negotiations and he is essentially calling DKV's bluff. DKV is not a Rich franchise and they were counting on Rubio's buy out of approx 6mill to pay some back taxes. DKV was not budging on the contract buy out so Rubio says eat it DKV, so now instead of DKV getting 6mill from Rubio they have to pay out 100k a year. The extra ticket sales Rubio attracts will not make up that difference and it puts DKV in a tight spot.

 

[The_Lillard_King]

I dont think this means Rubio will definatly play in Spain next year, I think this is part of the negotiations and he is essentially calling DKV's bluff. DKV is not a Rich franchise and they were counting on Rubio's buy out of approx 6mill to pay some back taxes. DKV was not budging on the contract buy out so Rubio says eat it DKV, so now instead of DKV getting 6mill from Rubio they have to pay out 100k a year. The extra ticket sales Rubio attracts will not make up that difference and it puts DKV in a tight spot.

Thanks for the insight.

Politics of basketball . . . got to love it.

 

[Iwatas]

The chances of Minni trading Rubio certainly have risen. PGs on the move in the NBA helps Portland, esp as we now have Blake and Bayless as points... ugh.

 

[yakbladder]

No, it's their profession. And if they move, it's a significant part of their lives. If you moved today to Europe, would you consider that a significant life change?

Regardless of whether their profession is a game or not, it's still just a game. If I moved to Europe for 10 million dollars, hrm, yes, it would be a significant life change. For the better. Are you paying 10 million for managers?

How many professions disallow choosing your employer from all interested employers? Not many. It's a game to fans...to teams and players, it's a business. And it's treated that way.

Well, none in the NBA as far as I know. Because you can just skip out and then re-enter the draft. You can whine and complain till the cows come home about your current contract and, inevitably, the team will cave and trade you. In my profession, as in most, that would be A) a violation of contract and B) most likely get me fired.

In terms of quitting, there can be different rules about it. But no country, state or city that has a market economy forces unwilling employees to take a certain job, as far as I know.

Justifiable termination is required in many cases - that's what I was getting at via "free will". Free will implies that either side has the right to terminate at any time for any clause. But that's not the way the NBA works...because it's not like the vast majority of "professions".

 

[Minstrel]

Regardless of whether their profession is a game or not, it's still just a game.

Sure, but irrelevant. It's still what he does for a living and thus important.

Well, none in the NBA as far as I know. Because you can just skip out and then re-enter the draft.

Most players can't without ending up making much less or nothing. Rubio is in a unique position. People in unique positions of leverage generally use that for their benefit, in all walks of life. I don't see the value in being angry that someone exercised what they felt was a better option for them, within the laws.

Justifiable termination is required in many cases - that's what I was getting at via "free will". Free will implies that either side has the right to terminate at any time for any clause. But that's not the way the NBA works...because it's not like the vast majority of "professions".

Yes, it's not. It has structural benefits and drawbacks relative to other professions. None of that is particularly relevant, though. Rubio is perfectly justified in saying he'd rather not work for Minnesota. By NBA rules, he can't work for any other NBA team. If he'd rather not work in the NBA at all, that is his choice, just like it is your choice to work for your company or not.

Employment in the NBA is "at will" in terms of signing a contract (not in terms breaking it, but Rubio isn't breaking a contract) and there's no will to do so on Rubio's side. I don't see why that's worse than anyone turning down a job opportunity they don't want.

 

[Shooter]

If I were Rubio, I may have done the same thing. I wouldn't want to come over and put myself in a worse position. It's a business and he's making a business decision, yet people are knocking him for making the right decision. I don't get it.

Maybe this illustration willl help . . .

Pau Gasol was drafted by Memphis and went there.
Peja Stojakovic was drafted by Sacramento and went there.
Hedo Turkoglu was drafted by Sacramento and went there.
Tony Parker was drafted by San Antonio and went there.
Manu Ginobli was drafted by San Antonio and went there.
Yao Ming was drafted by Houston and went there.
Rudy Fernandez was drafted by Portland and went there.

None of these were "glamour destinations," and many were actually small markets, yet all of these foreign players went where they were drafted and were happy to get a chance to play in the NBA.

Is Rubio somehow more special than all of the guys above?

 

[Tyler_Hansbrough]

Can they still trade the rights to him for a player?

Idiots lost Miller and Foye for nothing lol

 

[Minstrel]

Is Rubio somehow more special than all of the guys above?

Yes, he is more "special" because he has another excellent choice. Or rather, he isn't more special, his situation is more special.

As an ardent supporter of capitalism, I thought that you, of all people, wouldn't vilify a player for exercising the leverage he possesses in order to get the best opportunity for himself.

 

[Shooter]

Yes, he is more "special" because he has another excellent choice. Or rather, he isn't more special, his situation is more special.

As an ardent supporter of capitalism, I thought that you, of all people, wouldn't vilify a player for exercising the leverage he possesses in order to get the best opportunity for himself.

I support his right to do what he thinks is best, and to make all the money he can. However, he'll make a ton of money in the NBA, no matter where he goes, and he's acting like a prima donna right now.

By the way, I'm sure all those other foreign players I mentioned could have stayed with their home teams and made a boatload of money, too. But they all wanted to play in the NBA, so they went where they were drafted--and they've all had a great deal of success.

 

[Minstrel]

I support his right to do what he thinks is best, and to make all the money he can. However, he'll make a ton of money in the NBA, no matter where he goes, and he's acting like a prima donna right now.

How is he acting like a prima donna? Do you believe a businessman who says he won't do a deal because he can a better deal elsewhere is acting like a prima donna?

By the way, I'm sure all those other foreign players I mentioned could have stayed with their home teams and made a boatload of money, too.

No, they all couldn't. Most players can't make a comparable amount of money in other countries, because basketball is not big in most nations. In addition, Rubio has to pay millions of dollars to play in the NBA (due to the cost of the buyout on his contract in Spain). When you factor that in, Rubio stands to make much more money in Spain right now than he does in the NBA. That wasn't true of the other players you list.

 

[BrianFromWA]

Let's break this down:

The most that Minny can give him in salary over the next two years is 6783480 (120% of his salary slot). Taxes on that are about 35%. Cash into his pocket (without counting agent fees, player's association dues, etc.) is $4,409,262.

His buyout is 5.75M Euros (since it is now past June 30, and it escalated). In today's exchange rate, that is $8,078,179. MIN can pay 500k of that, leaving Rubio on the hook for $7,578,179. When he's going to make $4.4M over the next two years. Let's assume he's good enough to get a 3rd year option picked up. Now his 3-year salary will be $10,542,960, which using again the 35% tax bracket means that he will make $6,852,942. So his net NBA paycheck over three years? He has to pay $700,000 for the privilege of playing for the Timberwolves. What if he is just a whiny, sucky Euro PG? Probably will get the Ike Diogu treatment--maybe a pity vet min contract to see if something can be salvaged...now he's 22, played in the NBA for 4 years, and has not yet paid off his buyout.

OR

He stays in Barcelona another two years, makes about 700k or so. Then he comes to Minnesota (when he's still only 20), where he is GUARANTEED a profit of that two year salary of 4.4M, third year option (even Morrison got picked up for that) total of 6.5M.

For those of you in the "whiny little bitch" camp, please figure out what you're talking about, lose the hypocrisy, and try actually thinking about an opinion rather than feeling. I mean, seriously, in the span of a week people on here have decided that Rubio's a "whiny little bitch" because he doesn't want to pay 700K over the next 3 years out of his own pocket after receiving his max salary, and that Rudy should be shipped off b/c he's "whining" about playing time. Just, please, think--then post. I won't even ask you to learn the game. Just...think.

 

[andalusian]

Maybe this illustration willl help . . .

Pau Gasol was drafted by Memphis and went there.
Peja Stojakovic was drafted by Sacramento and went there.
Hedo Turkoglu was drafted by Sacramento and went there.
Tony Parker was drafted by San Antonio and went there.
Manu Ginobli was drafted by San Antonio and went there.
Yao Ming was drafted by Houston and went there.
Rudy Fernandez was drafted by Portland and went there.

None of these were "glamour destinations," and many were actually small markets, yet all of these foreign players went where they were drafted and were happy to get a chance to play in the NBA.

Is Rubio somehow more special than all of the guys above?

Of course he is more special - these guys did not have to pay $5m to go there.

 

[Furball]

First of all, Rudy didn't come right away. He waited a year to lessen the impact on having to pay his buyout.

I applaud Rubio. His situation is a lot different than others. Play in Europe for two more season and finish your contract, come to the NBA and make 4 mill a year. Or pay around 3 million on your buyout to play for a shitty team with a completely mismatched roster. Doesn't make any sense what so ever. I would love to have Ricky. I still have a feeling we haven't heard the end of it here in PDX.

 

[Shooter]

Or pay around 3 million on your buyout to play for a shitty team with a completely mismatched roster. Doesn't make any sense what so ever.

There you go. You nailed it. Rubio is staying in Spain because he doesn't want to play for a lousy team. It's not the money, it's Minnesota!

This is exactly why a lot of NBA fans are pissed at him. He doesn't like the cards he was dealt, so he's going to take his ball and go home.

 

[BrianFromWA]

There is no possible way you can seriously think you can discount having to pay 700k minimum to play in the NBA, when everyone else is making millions. Come on, Shooter.

 

[Shooter]

There is no possible way you can seriously think you can discount having to pay 700k minimum to play in the NBA, when everyone else is making millions. Come on, Shooter.

Come on, Brian. Rubio knew exactly how much he would have to pay to come to the NBA this year, and yet he declared for the draft anyway. If paying the money was such a huge problem for him, why did make himself available for the draft and show up in New York with a new suit on?

 

[Minstrel]

Come on, Brian. Rubio knew exactly how much he would have to pay to come to the NBA this year, and yet he declared for the draft anyway. If paying the money was such a huge problem for him, why did make himself available for the draft and show up in New York with a new suit on?

Had he been drafted #2, as expected, he'd have made significantly more money. He might actually have made a profit on a NBA contract, rather than having to pay money for the right to play in the NBA for 3 years.

 

[Shooter]

Had he been drafted #2, as expected, he'd have made significantly more money. He might actually have made a profit on a NBA contract, rather than having to pay money for the right to play in the NBA for 3 years.

"As expected"? Did someone promise him he was going to be drafted at #2? I doubt it, since it didn't happen. He came to New York not knowing where he would go, but hoping for the best, like everybody else. I saw mocks that had him going around 7 or 8, and he should have known that was very possible.

I repeat: It wasn't the money, it was Minnesota!

 

[Minstrel]

"As expected"? Did someone promise him he was going to be drafted at #2?

What are you talking about? I said expectation, not promise. Most people felt he'd go top-two or top-three.

I doubt it, since it didn't happen. He came to New York not knowing where he would go, but hoping for the best, like everybody else. I saw mocks that had him going around 7 or 8, and he should have known that was very possible.

How is this at all relevant? Of course it was possible. You were asking why he'd come to the draft at all, when he knew about the buy out. The reason was that if he had been picked earlier, which many people thought he would be, it would have been worth his while, financially, to enter the NBA.

That didn't happen, so it wasn't worth his while. Fairly simple.

 

[BrianFromWA]

He made himself available probably b/c he knew he'd be a top pick. That his slot floor would be guaranteed for the 3yr/10M contract (although to be fair, he probably thought he was going #2, and get traded somewhere. Big difference b/w a #2 contract and a #5 contract.)

Of course he knew how much he'd have to pay. And he knew that if the situation wasn't completely ideal, he'd go back to Spain for two years and not have to pay a dime. Everyone in the basketball-conscious world knew that--it was leaked to press, it was talked about with scouts, fans were talking about it.

Minnesota isn't completely ideal. They're a bad team, city that's off the international radar, and a team that drafted another franchise PG right after him. They can't help one of those things, but they sure could've helped two of the others, and didn't. They rolled the dice. Personally, I think they took him to trade and are just waiting for value coming back to increase. But this isn't a "he either comes to MIN or he's a whiny little bitch" situation. If he did come to Minnesota, he'd be a teenager making a very foolish business decision.

 

[Shooter]

Look at it this way, guys. If New York had drafted Rubio at #8, would he have come to the NBA this year? You bet he would.

It wasn't the money, it was Minnesota.

 

[BrianFromWA]

Look, I'm not saying that being Minnesota didn't play a part in it. It totally did. But the reason he has the leverage is that he has a contract.

Sure, maybe if he went to NYC, was given the starting job and told LBJ was probably getting signed with their 40M in cap room next year, then it probably would've been different. And maybe if he comes to Portland and gets to play with Rudy Roy LMA and Oden it would be different. and maybe if he gets a renegotiated buyout it would be different. I don't think that if NYK traded up to get him and then traded for Ramon Sessions and re-signed Nate Robinson that he would come, though. I don't think that if we traded for him and said Blake was our starting PG for the next 3 years that he would pay for that.
To completely discount the fact that he's losing more than his entire rookie contract if he comes over in the next two years? Don't see how you can logically do that.

 

[Minstrel]

Look at it this way, guys. If New York had drafted Rubio at #8, would he have come to the NBA this year? You bet he would.

New York has much greater exposure and endorsement opportunities. Whether or not "not liking Minnesota" factored in (it may well have), there's pretty much no question to me that money had a ton to do with it.

In addition, since when is where you live a trivial matter that only prima donnas care about? It's a major factor for many people when weighing an employment opportunity.

 

[barfo]

There you go. You nailed it. Rubio is staying in Spain because he doesn't want to play for a lousy team. It's not the money, it's Minnesota!

This is exactly why a lot of NBA fans are pissed at him. He doesn't like the cards he was dealt, so he's going to take his ball and go home.

If only slavery was still legal, then we could force him to work where we think he should.

barfo

 

[Shooter]

If only slavery was still legal, then we could force him to work where we think he should.

Yep, that whole draft thing is nothing but dirty rotten slavery. Dang the NBA!

 

[STOMP]

Look at it this way, guys. If New York had drafted Rubio at #8, would he have come to the NBA this year? You bet he would.

It wasn't the money, it was Minnesota.

You really think that a prospect as flashy and hyped as Rubio wouldn't have easily made up all the lost salary of dropping from #5 to #8 in endorsements playing in NY rather then Minnesota? I think it's a lock that he'd have been a featured star in D'Antoni's offense and would have made much more then his salary in endorsements. He would have been able to pay off his buyout in a year (or so).

STOMP