Zombie OT: Zion

[BonesJones]

...looks more like a Shabazz Napier to me

Not. At. All.

 

[BonesJones]

Carsen is a much better shooter, can hit a wider variety of shots, and is much quicker and sharper with the ball than Shabazz was.

 

[THE HCP]

Kevin McHale was three inches taller playing in a different time when bigs had a different role. Is he going to be able to handle someone line Giannis in the paint? Is he going to be able to guard KD? Can he match up with LeBron? Heck, what's he going to do against LMA or Porzingis or Doncic or players like that? To be a "generational" or "transcendant" talent, I think a player has to be clearly the best at his position.

I'm not saying he's not going to be a really good pro, but that he's got a lot of question marks in his game that get overlooked because he makes these highlight reel dunks and blocks. Blake Griffin was a similar case, and Amar'e. Zion's not going to be able to bully these fours at the next level like he does in college. At the same time, he is going to have to adjust his game to deal with the length of fours in the NBA or get a lot quicker to try to defend threes ... and foot quickness is one of the most difficult qualities to acquire.

And, again, that doesn't even get into the whole question of how his body is going to handle the wear and tear of a schedule three-to-four times as long. Beyond Shaq, how many players of Zion's body type have thrived for long in the NBA? Charles Oakley? Anthony Mason? I think there's a reason for that. And neither of those players had a game so dependent on physical explosiveness as Zion Williamson, nor were either player what I would consider "elite."

Wow, that's too much for me to read, sorry man. I never said he was going to be the greatest ever. I just said he is amazing! Does a combo of things out there people haven't seen from somebody his size. If you want to post about everything he CAN'T do.....right on. I have no reason to hate on his game or any other 18 year old kid. I just started this whole thread because from what I've seen, probably 25 games this season, he is more than just an athlete. He has court vision and dimes. Plays great defense. Can't shoot 3s or FTs, but oh well. Special player, I love to watch him play. And he isn't putting those numbers up all season against Lane Community College, he's doing this in the ACC. Excited to see him as a pro.

 

[PCmor7]

Wow, that's too much for me to read, sorry man. I never said he was going to be the greatest ever. I just said he is amazing! Does a combo of things out there people haven't seen from somebody his size. If you want to post about everything he CAN'T do.....right on. I have no reason to hate on his game or any other 18 year old kid. I just started this whole thread because from what I've seen, probably 25 games this season, he is more than just an athlete. He has court vision and dimes. Plays great defense. Can't shoot 3s or FTs, but oh well. Special player, I love to watch him play. And he isn't putting those numbers up all season against Lane Community College, he's doing this in the ACC. Excited to see him as a pro.

You didn't say he was the greatest ever, but it was comments about him being a generational talent and comparing his upside to Ja Morant's that started me in this discussion.

What you call "saying what he CAN'T do" isn't hating on his game or hating on an 18-year-old kid (who is the probable top pick in the draft and will be a multi-millionaire in a few months) who I doubt cares what I think or views our message board. It's an assessment of his skills. To top that off, I talked about what he does well and compared him to some very good NBA players. I think it's been a fair critique. I have no money in the game. Just an opinion.

His numbers aren't compiled in a vacuum. Fact is while the ACC is a great league, there aren't a ton of bigs with top line NBA potential playing there right now. In fact, three of the biggest NBA prospects in the ACC this year are Zion's teammates.

Great defense is more than blocking shots. He's got to move his feet. He can shoot 3s.

I hope this was easier for you to read. Enjoy watching him. He's an exciting player. I just don't think he's the special talent others do.

 

[THE HCP]

You didn't say he was the greatest ever, but it was comments about him being a generational talent and comparing his upside to Ja Morant's that started me in this discussion.

What you call "saying what he CAN'T do" isn't hating on his game or hating on an 18-year-old kid (who is the probable top pick in the draft and will be a multi-millionaire in a few months) who I doubt cares what I think or views our message board. It's an assessment of his skills. To top that off, I talked about what he does well and compared him to some very good NBA players. I think it's been a fair critique. I have no money in the game. Just an opinion.

His numbers aren't compiled in a vacuum. Fact is while the ACC is a great league, there aren't a ton of bigs with top line NBA potential playing there right now. In fact, three of the biggest NBA prospects in the ACC this year are Zion's teammates.

Great defense is more than blocking shots. He's got to move his feet. He can shoot 3s.

I hope this was easier for you to read. Enjoy watching him. He's an exciting player. I just don't think he's the special talent others do.

He's everywhere on defense if you ask me. Filling the lane, weak side help. He's all over. If I was the other team, I'd just lay off him and hope he'd shoot 3s......but he has hit a couple huge ones today.

 

[PCmor7]

He's everywhere on defense if you ask me. Filling the lane, weak side help. He's all over. If I was the other team, I'd just lay off him and hope he'd shoot 3s......but he has hit a couple huge ones today.

I don't see it. Maybe it's just me, but I don't see it. I just saw him get taken off-balance and give up a 3 off a simple jab step, though.

 

[THE HCP]

I don't see it. Maybe it's just me, but I don't see it. I just saw him get taken off-balance and give up a 3 off a simple jab step, though.

Too each his own. I just saw him close out and block a 3 pointer and then rush out slap the ball out of the players hands on the wing and out of bounds of them. He won't get credit for the steal, but he definitely caused the TO.I don't watch college hoops a ton. Not enough to know all the players, but this dude is special.

 

[PCmor7]

In fairness, he came back right after that with a great block on a 3 attempt at the top of the key and his help intimidated a Mich St guy into a 3-second call when he had the ball down on the block.

I have no question about his vertical explosiveness, straight ahead movement or power. How could anyone?

 

[THE HCP]

In fairness, he came back right after that with a great block on a 3 attempt at the top of the key and his help intimidated a Mich St guy into a 3-second call when he had the ball down on the block.

I have no question about his vertical explosiveness, straight ahead movement or power. How could anyone?

I still believe his court vision is one of his strengths. That play that just happened. Took his man down low, acknowledged he had nothing, made a great skip pass to the open man for a three. I think he has the tools to succeed. We will see in a few months huh. Nice chatting with you FAMS.

 

[THE HCP]

http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/26387847/answering-zion-big-nba-draft-questions-now

 

[Haakzilla]

Not. At. All.

...ok fine, more like Jerryd Bayless

 

[Minstrel]

I think Zion's pretty special. I don't know if he'll quite reach the greatness that past "phenom prospects" like Anthony Davis, Kevin Durant (sadly, Greg Oden also belongs in the list here, but obviously busted heavily due to injury), LeBron James, Tim Duncan, etc, but the array of skills he has, with the body type he has, with the athleticism he has offers the upside of a unique player who can do things no one else can. He could be Draymond Green on defense while being a Shaq who can lead the break on offense.

 

[Haakzilla]

2019 NCAA Tournament: Zion Williamson disappears in Elite Eight loss when Duke needed him the most

https://www.cbssports.com/college-b...ite-eight-loss-when-duke-needed-him-the-most/

 

[handiman]

I don't think that's really true. In fact, I think just saying what you did -- "If you can show it on occasion ..." -- OK, so why does he not show it on more occasions when he needs it? I think it comes down to being able to do something vs. being able to do something somewhat consistently.

I haven't watched enough Duke games to have seen any examples of what you're talking about. I've seen Zion make extremely coordinated athletic plays. I've yet to see him fail to do so. So, my answer to your question would have to be along the lines of, you're imagining it.

 

[illmatic99]

I'm worried about his knees.

 

[PCmor7]

I haven't watched enough Duke games to have seen any examples of what you're talking about. I've seen Zion make extremely coordinated athletic plays. I've yet to see him fail to do so. So, my answer to your question would have to be along the lines of, you're imagining it.

That's a very telling reply from someone who admits they haven't watched enough Duke games. I mean, it's one thing to disagree. But to try to belittle someone else because you don't like their opinion? My answer to that would be something along the lines of well, that's ignorant.

 

[handiman]

That's a very telling reply from someone who admits they haven't watched enough Duke games. I mean, it's one thing to disagree. But to try to belittle someone else because you don't like their opinion? My answer to that would be something along the lines of well, that's ignorant.

You asked how I would answer it... In my opinion, you're barking up the wrong tree and trying to find a flaw that doesn't exist. I've seen Zion make coordinated, athletic plays that very few people on this planet are capable of. I've yet to see him be incapable of making such a play, as you claim.

If someone can make those plays, it stands to reason they're capable of it at any time. You can't fake that. Did you ever consider that he simply hasn't polished his game enough to go with finesse moves regularly? Dude's used to just powering through people and still has some adapting to do.

 

[dviss1]

He is so top heavy and looks like he has the potential to get heavier.

I disagree completely:

I know you're mesmerized by the gun show!

But he's not all top heavy like you say.

 

[dviss1]

Zion will play Small Forward.

Stop with this PF shit. Lol.

 

[JDC]

Zion will play Small Forward.

Stop with this PF shit. Lol.

Based on what?

He's a huge mismatch at that position and has more than enough strength, rebounding and defensive ability to hold up there.

Honestly think small ball 5 is his most likely secondary role/position as well.

 

[dviss1]

Based on what?

He's a huge mismatch at that position and has more than enough strength, rebounding and defensive ability to hold up there.

Honestly think small ball 5 is his most likely secondary role/position as well.

Based on what?

He's a huge mismatch at the 3 as well.

See what I did there?

 

[JDC]

Based on what?

He's a huge mismatch at the 3 as well.

See what I did there?

But why play him there if he's a bigger one at the 4 and can defend the position?

The current NBA is all about maximizing the skill level on the floor while still being able to defend at a high level.

 

[THE HCP]

I'm thinking SF.

 

[TorturedBlazerFan]

Based on what?

He's a huge mismatch at the 3 as well.

See what I did there?

I think you’ll disagree with this, and thats ok we can have opinions.

I think Zions a bit of a “tweener” forward. Offensively he can play point forward I think.

Defensively he’s a highlight reel, but I really wonder how he’ll do when he gets switched to quicker guards and forwards, to me his east / west lateral quickness is a little suspect. That said if guys try to just beat him to the rim, I think even in the NBA that will welcome them to the block party. Im a little worried that he has “shot blocker syndrome too”, he jumps at everything...

I still think he’s going to be a very good NBA Player and a very unique talent.

 

[JDC]

I think you’ll disagree with this, and thats ok we can have opinions.

I think Zions a bit of a “tweener” forward. Offensively he can play point forward I think.

Defensively he’s a highlight reel, but I really wonder how he’ll do when he gets switched to quicker guards and forwards, to me his east / west lateral quickness is a little suspect. That said if guys try to just beat him to the rim, I think even in the NBA that will welcome them to the block party. Im a little worried that he has “shot blocker syndrome too”, he jumps at everything...

I still think he’s going to be a very good NBA Player and a very unique talent.

He was rarely in a stance at Duke. But when he decided to sit down, he had moments where he'd mirror quick pg's.

Think he's a legitimately great athlete in every sense, just struggles with the fundamentals. So we'll see if or how much that improves in the NBA, but I trust his IQ and mentality at a level where I'm comfortable projecting at least modest improvement.

And even if it doesn't happen, he still has that incredible recovery ability to make plays regardless.

 

[handiman]

I know there's no way we're getting Zion without giving up some combination of CJ, Dame, Nurk, and picks, but let your mind wander for a moment...

Pair rabid shot blockers Zion and Zach on the front line and you've got ... ZZ Stop! It's worth gutting the team just for that nickname, IMO.

 

[SheedSoNasty]

He’s got Marcus Fizer and Anthony Bennett written all over him.

 

[THE HCP]

I know there's no way we're getting Zion without giving up some combination of CJ, Dame, Nurk, and picks, but let your mind wander for a moment...

Pair rabid shot blockers Zion and Zach on the front line and you've got ... ZZ Stop! It's worth gutting the team just for that nickname, IMO.

That is almost as amazing as the Gay/Love frontcourt that was together in Memphis for a few ticks. (Turned into Gay/Mayo).

 

[PCmor7]

Defensively he’s a highlight reel, but I really wonder how he’ll do when he gets switched to quicker guards and forwards, to me his east / west lateral quickness is a little suspect. That said if guys try to just beat him to the rim, I think even in the NBA that will welcome them to the block party. Im a little worried that he has “shot blocker syndrome too”, he jumps at everything...

The one caveat to that is that if Anthony Davis, LeBron, Giannis, KD, LMA, Blake Griffin, etc. beat you to the rim, they're packing it. You aren't blocking them from behind, because it's a dunk.

Same goes for most NBA threes.

If any of you guys watched Patrick Ewing or Hakeem play in college, they rejected everything. Ewing played in a league that had three Final Four teams one year. Hakeem faced longtime NBA journeyman centers Joe Kleine and Jon Koncak. They almost inarguably played better competition in college than Zion faced this season. They were matched against multiple guys they faced in the pros for 10 years.

Ewing and Hakeem got to the NBA and they weren't nearly the same otherwordly shot blockers, because, quite simply, offensive players were bigger, longer, stronger, faster and craftier, if necessary, to either score, dunk or get them off their feet and out of position. Both those players, though, grew by leaps and bounds offensively ... they were athletic 7-footers with room to develop in that way.

 

[dviss1]

He was rarely in a stance at Duke. But when he decided to sit down, he had moments where he'd mirror quick pg's.

Think he's a legitimately great athlete in every sense, just struggles with the fundamentals. So we'll see if or how much that improves in the NBA, but I trust his IQ and mentality at a level where I'm comfortable projecting at least modest improvement.

And even if it doesn't happen, he still has that incredible recovery ability to make plays regardless.

All of these are reasons to play him at the 3.